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Posted (edited)

Sansa and the rest of the Northerners have to be the biggest idiots in all of Planetos. Death is coming for them by the thousands, and yet they throw shade at the person who came to save them with 2 armies and 2 dragons? Would they rather get stomped like House Umber and raised as meat?

Bunch of ungrateful jackasses, Northern nobles and citizens both.

Edited by D-Shiznit

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4 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I saw and still see nothing wrong with Daenerys' execution of the Tarlys.

Randyll Tarly made a vow to Olenna Tyrell, his liege. He then betrayed his liege for the likes of Cersei Lannister...and he had known Olenna Tyrell for what? 40-50 years? And then he made several racist comments towards Daenerys' men. And then he refused to bend the knee or take the black.

I actually think Olenna gave up her rights to the Tarlys’ loyalty by murdering King Joffrey*, to whom both the Tyrells and Tarlys has bent the knee. Transferring their loyalty to the crown seems like a natural thing to do in those circumstances.   

 

*We all hate him, but it was still murder.

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8 hours ago, Gemma said:

The Northerners coldness toward Dany is really bothering me. Davos says their loyalty must be earned but what does he think she’s doing? She went there to help them and is quite literally providing them with everything she has: the might of her armies and her dragons. Speaking of which, those dragons are priceless and she lost one of them helping Jon. She didn’t turn her back on him tho. Once she knew what was at stake she still offered to help. Did everyone forget that she would have helped even if Jon hadn’t bent the knee? He did it because he wanted to! All the northern lords are doing is sitting on their bums airing out their petty grievances while death is literally on their doorstep and they don’t stand a chance without Dany. Even with all her help it might not be enough. It’s like they don’t take the threat seriously and it makes them look like fools. I don’t blame Dany for being upset at how they treat her when she’s there to help the petty lot of them.

^ Facts.

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7 hours ago, of man and wolf said:

bet you Ghost wont care much for Dany. Just like a true northerner.

Jorah and Jon seem to like her pretty well... :P

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7 hours ago, Error-504 said:

This is not true, there have been non-targaryen dragon riders in the past. 

You mean like other Valyrians? In the Dance of Dragons, all the riders had dragon blood, whether they were trueborn, or bastards.

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2 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

You mean like other Valyrians? In the Dance of Dragons, all the riders had dragon blood, whether they were trueborn, or bastards.

I mean, it’s kind of ambiguous whether or not all the “dragon seeds” in TPatQ truly had Valyrian blood. Especially with how Nettles tamed her dragon. I like to think she probably did though. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, nara said:

I actually think Olenna gave up her rights to the Tarlys’ loyalty by murdering King Joffrey*, to whom both the Tyrells and Tarlys has bent the knee. Transferring their loyalty to the crown seems like a natural thing to do in those circumstances.   

Except that nobody knew that Olenna murdered Joffrey, least of all the Tarlys. Even Cersei didn't suspect her. Jamie learned the truth with Olenna's death, which was after the Tarlys switched sides. 

Edited by BadAssRobinArryn

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9 hours ago, bloodsteel bitterraven said:

Can we discuss the body part art at the Last Hearth?  It looks like we might be getting an explanation for what that symbol is.  Any thoughts?  Ideas?

I was wondering when wights started to sound like spider monkeys. Then I took a closer look. He has 8 "legs" which are segmented and composed largely of actual legs. When he was on fire, he reminded me of an insect-type creature from a horror movie. 

Ice spider? Maybe those were never literal things, but something that got warped in the telling with time. Maybe something like how Old Nan told Robb that the sky was blue because they lived in the blue eye of a giant, but it's really that a blue-eyed Great Other/NK/whatever is able to keep everyone inside his third eye. Like Santa. :P

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They just had to have the first line be a testicle joke, though, didn’t they; couldn’t help themselves.

Overall, though, it was fine, it’s just a shame aSoIaF onscreen has been reduced to such a level that “fine” is the best it’s been in years. It’s paint by numbers with no signs of real creativity or charm, but it was mostly pleasant way to spend an hour. Certainly better than the last several seasons.

But then the premiere episodes are usually the least problematic (wastes of time that they are). It’s whatever contrived shenanigans that will crop up once Cersei and the Golden Company make their entrance in the war that I’m worried about. I hope the Army of the Dead isn’t hastily dealt with in episode 3 just to have the rest of the season devoted to Carol and Euron. And I’m certainly not looking forward to Tyrion declaring his love for Dany or possibly betraying her out of jealousy. His concern for Cersei is concerning.

To me, they really screwed up revealing Jon’s heritage to the audience years ago but not to him. Instead of it being a dramatically satisfying moment, I was just bored because we’re revisiting information we’ve had since season 6 (book readers have known for quite a bit longer).

At least the wait seemed to be worth it, from a production point of view. The show certainly looks more expensive, and the new title sequence was nice.

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10 hours ago, Gemma said:

The Northerners coldness toward Dany is really bothering me. Davos says their loyalty must be earned but what does he think she’s doing? She went there to help them and is quite literally providing them with everything she has: the might of her armies and her dragons. Speaking of which, those dragons are priceless and she lost one of them helping Jon. She didn’t turn her back on him tho. Once she knew what was at stake she still offered to help. Did everyone forget that she would have helped even if Jon hadn’t bent the knee? He did it because he wanted to! All the northern lords are doing is sitting on their bums airing out their petty grievances while death is literally on their doorstep and they don’t stand a chance without Dany. Even with all her help it might not be enough. It’s like they don’t take the threat seriously and it makes them look like fools. I don’t blame Dany for being upset at how they treat her when she’s there to help the petty lot of them.

Yeah, this is actually something that goes back to Season 1 and has been seen at various points throughout subsequent Seasons as well - the Northern lords have always consistently shown a preference for squabbling amongst themselves over coming together in the face of a common enemy.  Even when united behind DAKINGINDANORF we still have examples of loose cannons like Lord Rickard Karstark.

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3 minutes ago, 21st Century Moose said:

Yeah, this is actually something that goes back to Season 1 and has been seen at various points throughout subsequent Seasons as well - the Northern lords have always consistently shown a preference for squabbling amongst themselves over coming together in the face of a common enemy.  Even when united behind DAKINGINDANORF we still have examples of loose cannons like Lord Rickard Karstark.

I actually think GRRM had in mind the history of the Scottish clans for the North. They fought amongst themselves, making it easy for the English to conquer.

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Was anyone esle a little irked at how Daenerys handled herself throughout the episode? 

-smirks when all the small folks run in fear of the dragons in winter town. 

-offers no reassurance in the great hall that she will be a just ruler or that she was fully supported to helping. Only a snarky comment about her dragons "eating whatever they want"

-makes a veiled threat directed at Sansa in Jon's presence (if she doesnt obey) just before the dothraki show up and cut their conversation short. 

-offers zero condolences to Sam for the executions of his family. Just very matter of fact and unforgiving. 

I honestly don't think shes going to last this season. She's way too prideful and entitled. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

What the heck is up with Tyrion???

Without GRRM writing his dialogue, he is a crap character. He was downright mean to Varys - coz I have balls and you don't. Varys should have said, yea but at least I can reach a fucking doorknob, you doorknob.

Dinklage is also way overrated and its showing.

Edited by ummester

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ASOS Tyrion VI

"Be quiet, Cersei. Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you. And any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king at all. Aerys never understood that, but you will. When I've won your war for you, we will restore the king's peace and the king's justice. The only head that need concern you is Margaery Tyrell's maidenhead." 
 

Dany goes about insisting on being treated like the queen. Jon has to keep reminding people that he's not the king. 

 

Jon also tells Sansa that Dany isn't her father and in the very next scene, it's revealed to Sam that Aerys Dany killed Ned's Sam's father and brother. 

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34 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Jon also tells Sansa that Dany isn't her father and in the very next scene, it's revealed to Sam that Aerys Dany killed Ned's Sam's father and brother. 

with fire, I would like to add.

However, it is all just a stupid irrelevant plotline, I wager. By the end of EP2 everything will be peaches, when we see the dead steed's hoofs enter the picture for the last frame.

I do like that Dany was made at least a bit responsible for her actions.

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6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I know perfectly well what I'm talking about.

Cersei is evil. Cersei is a liar. But she's not a hypocrite. She never ever claimed she would be some saviour.

I'm not a fan of Aegon's use of WMD and I think he was devious, but the Hoare family inside HH were not his POW.

LF was being tried for crimes. He was not a POW.

As I said before: I don't care one jot about the Tarlys.

I already said what Dany was supposed to do: she should not have asked her POW who already surrendered to her, to also bend the knee, after one battle, when she did not have even have KL and had no intention to occupy the Reach and protect it from retaliation by Cersei.

No, it's not the same situation as Jon's execution of Slynt. Tarly wasn't one of Dany's soldiers, and thus not hers to command. Jon was Slynt's superior and Slynt refused to comply the order he was given for no sound reason. If this had been a situation where it was a commander of Unsullied or the Dothraki who refused to do what she commanded to do (when the order was not immoral), then we'd have a comparable situation. But that's not the case here.

Seems, you don't really understand what you're talking about.

The problem with your arguments is, first, that you’re applying modern ideas to judge actions in the show, and second, that you’re doing it inconsistently.  

Within the morality established in the show (and the books, and generally medieval ways of doing things) what Daenerys did was acceptable.  If you are defeated by someone who has a claim to your loyalty, you can affirm the claim of loyalty, take the black, or be executed.  She offered those choices to the Tarlys and they chose execution.  Our ideas of treatment of POWs aren’t accepted by anyone in Westeros. 

And you are being inconsistent with this because you aren’t applying modern ideas to the treatment of Littlefinger, among others.  He didn’t receive anything close to due process prior to his execution.  Yet his execution fit within the ethical and legal framework of Westeros.  Likewise for the execution of Slynt.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Jon also tells Sansa that Dany isn't her father and in the very next scene, it's revealed to Sam that Aerys Dany killed Ned's Sam's father and brother. 

That proves that she is not her father. The Mad King would not have given them the choice to bend the knee, and after they refused given them the choice to take the black. The Mad King would not only have burned the Tarly's, but would have also burned their remaining soldiers as well without any choice given.

Edited by D-Shiznit

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58 minutes ago, Every Last Chicken said:

Was anyone esle a little irked at how Daenerys handled herself throughout the episode? 

-smirks when all the small folks run in fear of the dragons in winter town. 

-offers no reassurance in the great hall that she will be a just ruler or that she was fully supported to helping. Only a snarky comment about her dragons "eating whatever they want"

-makes a veiled threat directed at Sansa in Jon's presence (if she doesnt obey) just before the dothraki show up and cut their conversation short. 

-offers zero condolences to Sam for the executions of his family. Just very matter of fact and unforgiving. 

I honestly don't think shes going to last this season. She's way too prideful and entitled. 

I haven't been able to stand her for a while now (I never cared for her in the books... so maybe I was biased to begin with). But it seems like they are trying really hard to make her seem like a jerk, or more of a grey character. I think she will last till the last episode because of plot armor. But I hope she dies as the villain. It seems like the path she is going down.

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