Jump to content

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Tyrion brought up the Night’s Watch. Randyll refused. 

Ahh, so I'm misremembering the scene. Still, there was a lot of Tyrion saying "let's just all cool our heads for a second" and her forcing it into an immediate "do or die" situation. The scene did not speak well for Dany's qualities as a different kind of leader, and I'm glad the show hasn't forgotten it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

Tyrion brought up the Night’s Watch. Randyll refused. 

Tyrion did, but Dany didn't. She never even considered it. She was as surprised as Tyrion when he brought it up. You could almost see her thinking, "Oh, I had forgotten all about the NW."

Randyll refused on account of not recognizing her as his legal queen.

Tyrion also still argued that she could put them in prison. But she doesn't want to put men in chains. She doesn't even get the concept of prison much. Thinks somehow that executing people is more humane than putting them in a cell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I don't disagree with that reasoning from a strategic POV.

But it still makes Dany a hypocrite in light of the speech she gives 5 mins prior to him and his men. And maybe that was Randyl's point? "Oh, look, here's one who claims she should be queen, because she's a better person than the Lannisters, and will stop being a tyrant. Look what this woman will do, when I don't bend the knee? See, she's just like all the others before her." And sure, they all bent the knee after that, but it sure as hell was not because they believed she would be a great ruler. They did it, because they didn't want to die-by-dragonfire.  

 

It is obviously stupid that she thought that after she burned the army the surviving soldiers would decide to bend the knee because they believe in her. The world doesn t work that way…

Like it is stupid to not make prisoners or send people to the Wall or get hostages… It just sends the mensage that she isn t that good of a person...

But I think the problem also lies with the show making people uterly stupid and inflexible. What was danny supposed to do with the way randyll reacted? Like why are the northern lords raising so manny probs when danny brought all her armies, dragons and dragonglass north to help save it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Randyll refused on account of not recognizing her as his legal queen.

Which made no sense in-universe, as it was rival kings and queens of all the different kingdoms that used to sentence their defeated enemies to the Wall. The Targaryens uniting Westeros was part of the reason the NW became so undermanned. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

She has two major events coming up to show us. 

First will be how she deals with Jamie in the next episode. If she shows him mercy, and states his killing of her father was justified, it go's a long way to showing the Northern Lords she is in fact different. This could be her out in the current situation she is in. 

Second will be how she handles the news that Jon is the legitimate heir. 

The verdict on Dany is far from decided, these two things will show us a lot. 

I agree. These two events will show a lot. 

I am a bit concerned that the reason they had Jon ride a dragon now was to add "proof to the pudding" of his Targaryen heritage.  In that, Dany may try to leave and take her dragons with her out of anger, only for Rhaegal not to leave because he bonded with Jon during the joy ride.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I agree. These two events will show a lot. 

I am a bit concerned that the reason they had Jon ride a dragon now was to add "proof to the pudding" of his Targaryen heritage.  In that, Dany may try to leave and take her dragons with her out of anger, only for Rhaegal not to leave because he bonded with Jon during the joy ride.

She can t admit that he father was an evil man and then condemn the man that killed him...

Jaime's trial isn t that great of a test. I am more interested in her reaction to jon's parentage. Even if they just marry the problem would be solved… I have no idea what the fuss will be...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Do you really want me to pull out the science behind burns?

But, no, I'm not saying everyone should be in an uproar over the manner of execution. And yes, it has been proven that most everyone who sat the IT would execute POW if they refuse to bend the knee. I myself gave several examples. 

As I have posted several times now, I'm holding Dany's actions against her own promises 5 mins prior to it. And then chose to do exactly like Tywin, give a "live or die" choice, and on top of that she did it in the most horrid ways.

What did show-Randyll Tarly do that made him deserve extra few seconds of pain? Because he hunts? Because he's a bigot about wildlings and Dothraki? Because he looks down on Samwell? Hell, the show made him a more decent man than he is in the books, reminding his sons that his wife deserves respect for talking back to him. And even book-Tarly, while abusive to his son and a mysoginist, is someone who makes sure his men don't get away with raping, stealing or making fun of a naive woman.

Dany showed them the same compassion as Tywin showed his POW of the Battle of the Blackwater. End of story.

Do you really want me to pull out the science behind burns?

Yes, please do. But in the process, make sure it is the science behind burns by direct dragon fire. the point is, it is much hotter than dragon fire, ergo death is much quicker. You can place someone in an oven set to 500 degrees and the death would be excruciating. Put them in the same oven at 5000 degrees, and death will be much quicker. 

But, no, I'm not saying everyone should be in an uproar over the manner of execution. And yes, it has been proven that most everyone who sat the IT would execute POW if they refuse to bend the knee. I myself gave several examples. 

no problems with this

As I have posted several times now, I'm holding Dany's actions against her own promises 5 mins prior to it. And then chose to do exactly like Tywin, give a "live or die" choice, and on top of that she did it in the most horrid ways.

Actually, three choices, live, die, or take the black. And I have already rejected your argument, a one off instance does not prove Dany is like all the other rulers, in all matters. We will find this out next episode with Jamie. 

What did show-Randyll Tarly do that made him deserve extra few seconds of pain? Because he hunts? Because he's a bigot about wildlings and Dothraki? Because he looks down on Samwell? Hell, the show made him a more decent man than he is in the books, reminding his sons that his wife deserves respect for talking back to him. And even book-Tarly, while abusive to his son and a mysoginist, is someone who makes sure his men don't get away with raping, stealing or making fun of a naive woman.

Supporting Cersie and backstabbing his liege Lord. At least have the decency to inform the Tyrell's of your intention to break treaty. 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I agree. These two events will show a lot. 

I am a bit concerned that the reason they had Jon ride a dragon now was to add "proof to the pudding" of his Targaryen heritage.  In that, Dany may try to leave and take her dragons with her out of anger, only for Rhaegal not to leave because he bonded with Jon during the joy ride.

Because it would be totally in character for her to leave people in need... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

She has two major events coming up to show us. 

First will be how she deals with Jamie in the next episode. If she shows him mercy, and states his killing of her father was justified, it go's a long way to showing the Northern Lords she is in fact different. This could be her out in the current situation she is in. 

Tbf that's not on her alone. He did push Bran out of a window and almost killed him. The North hates the Lannisters as much as the Targaryens especially for what happened at the Red Wedding. Unless of course Bran will conveniently decide not to mention that. He knew about LittleFinger and Ned, so why not about the Red Wedding and the Lannisters being the ones behind it? If they're holding what Dany's father did against her surely it will be the same as holding what Tywin/Joffrey did against Jaime. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

She gives the classical choice: bend the knee or die.

OMG, don't you get what she did to those men who had surrendered their arms to her? She gives this whole over-the-rainbow-speech to them, making herself out to be better and different than all the other kings and queens before her, and because not everybody buys it, she burns them right in front of those men she promised to be different. What do you think went through the minds of those men who bent the knee?

"See, there we have a saviour!" or "Same old, same old."

 

Why do you conveniently keep leaving out the option to join the Nightswatch? because it doesn't fit your narrative perhaps? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Vernon Roche said:

Maybe its because I had to stay up late to watch it here but it came across to me that it wasn't necessarily the news of his father dying that caused him the greatest upset, he composed himself somewhat to say at least his brother was in charge now and it was news that his brother, who from what I recall in the show was somebody he had demonstrable affection for, that ultimately upset him and caused him to request his leave.

He was already sad with the news of his father's death, which read as a bit odd as his father was never good to him. All we've known of Randyll was that he was a bully to Sam.

I understood the "at least my brother is the Lord now" line as a silverlining for Sam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

Which made no sense in-universe, as it was rival kings and queens of all the different kingdoms that used to sentence their defeated enemies to the Wall. The Targaryens uniting Westeros was part of the reason the NW became so undermanned. 

Well, I am pretty sure that the POW of the wars between kingdoms before Aegon the Conquerer's unification plenty still had a choice to die instead of going to the NW. The NW gets undermanned indeed because of the Targaryens' actions and choices (the shiny KG, using it as penal colony, etc).

The past was not so much about rival kings and queens for the same throne, as it were kings and queens of a neighbouring kingdom trying to conquer them. Having several claimants to the same throne from several houses is a fairly new development and typical for having just one throne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Tyrion did, but Dany didn't. She never even considered it. She was as surprised as Tyrion when he brought it up. You could almost see her thinking, "Oh, I had forgotten all about the NW."

Randyll refused on account of not recognizing her as his legal queen.

Tyrion also still argued that she could put them in prison. But she doesn't want to put men in chains. She doesn't even get the concept of prison much. Thinks somehow that executing people is more humane than putting them in a cell.

She was in fact considering it, but a split second later Randyll refused, and used it as an opportunity to throw shade at Dany. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Silyun said:

Hey guys !

I saw that no one mentioned this so what do you think of Drogon staring at Jon when he was with Dany ? I thought that maybe it was Bran's doing but I'm not sure.

Hi!! I do believe this was meant for comic relif and nothing else :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, divica said:

It is obviously stupid that she thought that after she burned the army the surviving soldiers would decide to bend the knee because they believe in her. The world doesn t work that way…

Like it is stupid to not make prisoners or send people to the Wall or get hostages… It just sends the mensage that she isn t that good of a person...

But I think the problem also lies with the show making people uterly stupid and inflexible. What was danny supposed to do with the way randyll reacted? Like why are the northern lords raising so manny probs when danny brought all her armies, dragons and dragonglass north to help save it?

Yes they should all get a participation trophy, a pat on the back, and sent home.

Good Lord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

Tbf that's not on her alone. He did push Bran out of a window and almost killed him. The North hates the Lannisters as much as the Targaryens especially for what happened at the Red Wedding. Unless of course Bran will conveniently decide not to mention that. He knew about LittleFinger and Ned, so why not about the Red Wedding and the Lannisters being the ones behind it? If they're holding what Dany's father did against her surely it will be the same as holding what Tywin/Joffrey did against Jaime. 

Oh I agree, but I am only refereeing to Danys part in regards to her Father. Yeah, how the North handles it will be interesting as well., Two different things however. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Nymeria Stone said:

Huge let down. Nice reencounters, but other than that nothing really happened.

Jon riding the dragon was terrible, Euron and Cersei was terrible, Yara being rescued made no sense. Neither did Sam's reaction over his father and brother being dead. The dialogues between Jon and Dany felt like a scene from Riverdale.

The R+L=J revelation felt rushed and could've been done way better imo.

I'm really disappointed.

I agree with all of this. I've learned not to get too disappointed anymore though. 

A few things I did like - 

I'm not typically fond of the whole women being caddy thing but Dany's "Whatever they want." Cracked me up. 

Tormund - My eyes have always been blue!!

I like cold hearted bitch Sansa much more than Lady Sansa. 

Favorite part of the episode was the Bran & Jaime stare at the end. Jaime is a great actor & made that scene. 

All in all though it was rushed with no content if that makes sense. I might excuse it if it was a little rushed but alot happened. But not much happened & it was rushed. 

The love story of Hot Pie & his hot pies was given more time to build & had more chemistry than the Jon & Dany love story & that just sucks. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Why do you conveniently keep leaving out the option to join the Nightswatch? because it doesn't fit your narrative perhaps? 

Because Dany herself never even thought of offering that choice. Tyrion mentioned it, and before Dany could even think to formalize that option as an option, Randyll made clear it wouldn't be. So, no, Dany never gave that as third option choice. And when Randyl initially refused to bend the knee, even fore Tyrion opened his mouth abou the NW, Dany's sole alternative was death-by-dragonfire in her own mind. So, spare me the argument of the NW being a third option, when Dany had never even considered it as an option.

And given the fact that she's so against imprisonment and chains because she can only associate that with enslavement right after, when Tyrion argues for her to put Dickon in a cell, I doubt that she would consider NW duty as anything else than another form of enslavement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lady Rhodes said:

 For what it is worth, I think the chief problem last season (and, thus, sadly, what I think will be a problem this season) is the decision to make it only 7 episodes.  They could have packed three episodes with dialogue that makes things real: more accurate travel, a dinner scene or two between Jon and Dany, some more scenes with Sansa and Arya and Bran, etc.  I think about the relationships we are invested in - Arya and the Hound, Jaime and Brienne, and those relationships were not made through spectacle but through plodding through the riverlands.  Let's bring back the full length seasons and the plodding. (Obviously, it will never happen now, but I think you all get my point)

I fully agree! There are too many open ends to be solved in only 6 episodes and not enough room is left for proper caracter development anymore

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, they should have stuck with 10 episodes.  That would have given them much more time to make last season, at least less rushed feeling and silly.  And same for this season, more time to let the story breath and give some character beats.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×