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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

You asked for an example of people speaking about her like she's a barbarian invader and I gave them to you.  All you had to do was look at the looks on the faces of the Northerners to see that they, too, think she's a foreigner bringing with her a horde of foreign invaders. 

It is pretty funny that danny's major problems are that she is a foreigner that has never lived in westeros and is the daughter of the mad king (besides leading an army of dothriaki). However jon is a westerosi, son of a respected targ (if they show he didn t kidnap lyanna) and raised by a man everybody liked.

And we are supposed to believe that nobody will see that them marrying should make everybody sastisfied?

 

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What's the general consensus on what the burning of child/Lord Umber represents? Besides that the WW have an agenda besides mindless slaughter. Far fetched but, can it represent danys wheel? 

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Just now, jobmartell said:

What's the general consensus on what the burning of child/Lord Umber represents? Besides that the WW have an agenda besides mindless slaughter. Far fetched but, can it represent danys wheel? 

YOU ARE A GENIOUS.

The NK wants to break the wheel! He wants to end poverty, sickness, social diferences, injustice, rape and a bunch of other things.

The Night king is invading westeros to make it a better place where everyone is at peace and of a single mind!

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1 minute ago, divica said:

YOU ARE A GENIOUS.

The NK wants to break the wheel! He wants to end poverty, sickness, social diferences, injustice, rape and a bunch of other things.

The Night king is invading westeros to make it a better place where everyone is at peace and of a single mind!

Hahaha... the thought crossed my mind too... looks like a wheel.

And it also looks similar to the Targaryen sigil

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Just now, divica said:

YOU ARE A GENIOUS.

The NK wants to break the wheel! He wants to end poverty, sickness, social diferences, injustice, rape and a bunch of other things.

The Night king is invading westeros to make it a better place where everyone is at peace and of a single mind!

Thanks? But not what I was thinking. More so a     " fuck off " to what she thinks is important. Thanks again for the kind words.

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4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Hahaha... the thought crossed my mind too... looks like a wheel.

And it also looks similar to the Targaryen sigil

Thought the same and the martell sigil, minus the spear.

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I can derive its meaning based on the various times she used it. One leader and breaking the power of the great houses: that is the enlightened despot model, not feudal society. A feudal society does NOT have one ruler who can ignore his lords. It's not imposing what I think it should mean, it's how feudal society and enlightened despotism is defined by historians.

And yet, it does make Dany a hypocrite, since her actions and what she's after do not make her more "just" than anyone else before.

Except, no, you can't, thus making you the Hypocrite. 

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2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

 Roose Bolton does not seem to apply this type of execution at Harrenhal, though people are indeed executed and lose their feet. At the time House Bolton joined their liege House Stark, the skinning of people was a historical practice, that is, until Ramsay gains power and starts doing it.

I fail to see what this line of inquiry would produce with regards the discussion we have about Dany burning the Tarlies is bad PR for her if she wants to win houses over to believe in her as being a "just" ruler.

If it is to question what I think of Roose and Ramsay Bolton? Roose is smarter than Ramsay in not doing horrible stuff openly, but both are despicable and barbaric. But nobody of the current living Starks knows this about House Bolton until they come into power. So?

Robb Stark allies with the Bolton's not a peep from the Northern Lords

Jon snow allies with Dany.........OMG!! She;s a Targaryan!!!

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm the audience, so yes, it is totally up to me how I interpret the story.  I have already interpreted that the Breaker of Chains has bad judgment and is a poor ruler, in both mediums.  So I can and do call her a hypocrite among other negative things, although it looks like she's going to be the one who comes out on top in the end, alive, with her titles and Jon's baby...

Oh please, you are one viewer amongst millions. That is one of the silliest posts I have seen. this is a debate amongst said viewers. 

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6 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Robb Stark allies with the Bolton's not a peep from the Northern Lords

Jon snow allies with Dany.........OMG!! She;s a Targaryan!!!

Erm, the Boltons were Stark bannermen, that's not an alliance, that's the Stark bannermen who are bound to their liege lord.  It is not remotely the same thing.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

Erm, the Boltons were Stark bannermen, that's not an alliance, that's the Stark bannermen who are bound to their liege lord.  It is not remotely the same thing.

your right, it is magnitudes worse. Thank you for clarifying that for me. Worked out well for 'ol Robby too, didn't it? 

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29 minutes ago, divica said:

YOU ARE A GENIOUS.

The NK wants to break the wheel! He wants to end poverty, sickness, social diferences, injustice, rape and a bunch of other things.

The Night king is invading westeros to make it a better place where everyone is at peace and of a single mind!

It's the tree where the NK was created. It had the same spiraly rocks layout in Bran's vision of it. The NK is seemingly saying "screw your tree" or something.

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4 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

It's the tree where the NK was created. It had the same spiraly rocks layout in Bran's vision of it. The NK is seemingly saying "screw your tree" or something.

The NK is mad because some one stole his pin wheel. After all, I am the viewer, it is totally up to me how I interpret the story. 

 

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51 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Except, no, you can't, thus making you the Hypocrite. 

Your reply makes no sense to the post you quoted, and how am I a hypocrite?

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57 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

Robb Stark allies with the Bolton's not a peep from the Northern Lords

The Boltons are as far as the other houses know and his liege lord not doing any flaying or breaking the law. The Boltons have been tracherous centuries ago, but as far as other northern lords and hous Stark knows they have been loyal since then and did as House Stark wanted of them. And certainly Roose makes a big deal of appearing that part until the end of aCoK. We do know by Robb's example with the Karstarks murdering two of his noble POWs that if Robb had known about Roose's mistreatment of people in HH, he'd likely would have wanted Roose's head for that too.

Quote

Jon snow allies with Dany.........OMG!! She;s a Targaryan!!!

Sansa marries a Bolton in the show and gets flack for it afterwards.

Whatever you're trying to say does not actually relate to Robb using forces of his vassal Bolton. I'm sure that if several centuries had gone by, nobody would give a peep over "She's a Targaryen." It has nothing to do with my argument about how she dealt with the Tarlys. I'm not the one booing either Dany or Jon for being allies.

That said, the show Northern Lords are fickle and have selective memory. Where did I say that Northern Lords are great. I said Robb turns out to be one of the best kings, but not that the lords who proclaimed him king were the best of people.

:dunno:

Edited by sweetsunray

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6 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Your reply makes no sense to the post you quoted, and how am I a hypocrite?

you said you could derive it's meaning, You can't.

Your merely making assumptions based on your beliefs of what Dany means when she says she is breaking the wheel. 

A hypocrite preaches one thing, and does another.

You cant label Dany a hypocrite without getting an explanation of what she means by "breaking the wheel". 

There are many ways that "breaking the wheel" could be done. For one, she could destroy all the houses that make up the spokes of the wheel. (not that I think she will, but it is one way). 

Just because Dany's actions don't conform to what you think breaking the wheel should mean, doesn't make Dany a hypocrite, it means your understanding of what she meant by that statement is wrong. 

Furthermore, you go on to take a one off instance and extrapolate that into your beliefs into how she would handle all other incidents. following your logic, certainly she must burn Jamie in the same manor when he reaches Winterfell, correct? 

Here is the thing, we all know that isn't going to happen. 

Dany as always held the belief that she is a queen of the people. The Breaker of chains. She has always held the masters and liege Lords responsible, but show Dany has always held a soft spot for the commoner. As such, executing Randyl Tarley was not out of character, nor did it contradict what she proclaims to be. It only contradicts what you claim she should be. 

Now, if Dany would have in turn executed the soldiers in the same fashion, then yes, she would be a hypocrite. But she didn't. 

What if Jamie's reason for killing King Aerys come to light in what appears to be a trial at WF.  (I don't know if it is really a trial, but hard to say from that snippet). If Dany hears this, and still executes him, yes, she is a hypocrite. But it most certainly appears she doesn't. 

 

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Did we ever see Cersei drink the wine?  I don’t remember her drinking.  I think that she was keeping up appearances to everyone until she had to reveal she was pregnant.  That is also why she slept with Euron, she needed someone that wasn’t related to her to be the father.  That look she had as she was walking out of the throne room said it all.  She knew she couldn’t keep her pregnancy a secret for much longer.  She plays a good game at pretending that she doesn’t care if people know she is banging her brother.  But at the end of the day she is about keeping her throne and power.

Another thought, what if the wheel that Dany is going to break is actually the wheel of the White Walkers returning?

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4 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

you said you could derive it's meaning, You can't.

Your merely making assumptions based on your beliefs of what Dany means when she says she is breaking the wheel. 

A hypocrite preaches one thing, and does another.

I can say she's hypocrite by her proclamation that she's more just alone. Don't need the breaking of the wheel term for that. I can use her words to Olenna and the Snakes and Varys and Tyrion during the war-council an episode before that for that too.

Edited by sweetsunray

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17 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

The Boltons are as far as the other houses know and his liege lord not doing any flaying or breaking the law. The Boltons have been tracherous centuries ago, but as far as other northern lords and hous Stark knows they have been loyal since then and did as House Stark wanted of them. And certainly Roose makes a big deal of appearing that part until the end of aCoK. We do know by Robb's example with the Karstarks murdering two of his noble POWs that if Robb had known about Roose's mistreatment of people in HH, he'd likely would have wanted Roose's head for that too.

Sansa marries a Bolton in the show and gets flack for it afterwards.

Whatever you're trying to say does not actually relate to Robb using forces of his vassal Bolton. I'm sure that if several centuries had gone by, nobody would give a peep over "She's a Targaryen." It has nothing to do with my argument about how she dealt with the Tarlys. I'm not the one booing either Dany or Jon for being allies.

That said, the show Northern Lords are fickle and have selective memory. Where did I say that Northern Lords are great. I said Robb turns out to be one of the best kings, but not that the lords who proclaimed him king were the best of people.

:dunno:

I contend that the Boltons have been treacherous far into the recent past, leading up to Robb's war. I have no bones about Sansa marrying Ramsay, I do not hold her accountable for that (well, she was an idiot, but I digress). 

It does have to do with the argument in so much as you stated later, the Northerners do have a fickle memory. 

My point was, the Northerners have not been so selective of their allies in the recent past, as long as they served their immediate cause. why all of a sudden do they care so much now, considering the immediate cause is far more concerning than anything they had to deal with in the past. 

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