[Poll] How would you rate episode 801?

[sweetsunray]

I've been a ranter about the show since S5, but this season opener was better than I expected.

Yes, the reunions are fan-service in a way, but they are also have been a very long time coming. I actually liked each of the reunions and had no issue with them not being as joyful or as enthusiastic as some people expected them to be. I found those underplayed reserve from the characters rather realistic. Reminds us of the return to the Shire. These people may not be broken, but they are physically, emotionally and mentally wounded and still mending. It made it all the more precious when they did show a glimpse of their true feelings, and so kudos to the actors for that. Nevertheless each of the dialogues in these reunions contained somethign that jarred me, and so for me the dialogues were not well written: either falling back onto a formula without being able to expand on it, or inserting anachronistic phrases.

• Arya declaring Sansa the smartest person she ever met. I liked that Arya defended her sister, but this all out phrase just felt like D&D telling me "from now on think of Sansa as the smarest one".
• Sansa apologising to Tyrion for escaping a sham of a marriage and an abusing tyrant as he was being poisoned when she had nothing to do with it. 
• The Hound's "word". I expect cold acting from these characters to each other, and the Hound can be crass, but that was too crass imo even for him. I could have gone with "You're a cold one, aren't you!". Though kudos on Rory for the warmer and proud "Well I guess that's why you're alive".
• I loved the Gendry and Arya interactions, but the phrase of "rich girl" is just too anachronistic.

I did not enjoy the dragonride. It just jarred with the urgency and the mood of the rest of episode. Was too easily earned. Too Disney. And the waterfall scene that called out to Ygritte. It was nothing but awkward and those two actors just don't have chemistry together. And worse, the joyride grated me immensely, because all I could think of was "Where the hell is Ghost!"

Yara-Theon: was rushed, but I'm ok with that. Didn't really need to have that turn into a long scene. Nevertheless, perhaps Theon could have deserved a longer, suspenseful rescue scene of Yara. And then instead of hearing of Yara's plans and Theon's intentions to go to WF, it would just be better for me if he would just show up there with the news that Yara left to take back the Iron Islands from Euron to fall back on. But I guess they squeezed that in to make us think it was Theon who rode back into WF? It didn't really work.

Euron-Cersei was gross, but it is meant to gross us out. Cersei has just learned that even being queen in her own name does not liberate her from sexual performance with men that gross her out to ensure she keeps her allies. At least they saved us from showing us any actual intimate scene. I don't care much about the "baby" mystery though. And I'd wish they'd quit writing for internet memes.

Ball-jokes and brothel scenes. Bad writing turned into a gimmick... sigh. Well, at least we know what happened to Ed Sheeran and those nice Lannister soldiers that gave Arya food and wine in the Riverlands. They died or got burned in the battle against the Dothraki and Drogon last season. Try to be more creative! This could have been done in a tavern amongst soldiers, and they still could have included prostitutes in their lap if they wanted. Guess there's as little a budget for such sets as there is for elephants. Don't care much about the "mystery" effort for Bronn gettig the crossbow. And it's quite sad to see such poor dialogue for both Tyrion and Varys.

I wasn't really scared with the Hearth scene and the whole Ned Umber being dead was telegraphed by that not-smart send-off at the war-council in WF. You knew as soon as he was told to fetch his people that he'd end up a wight. And though the blue eyes joke did make me chuckle, it also reminded me how Edd hasn't had any joke-lines since S3 and that even now they got it wrong. Edd should have had a repartee to Tormund's "I always had blue eyes".

The really good scenes were the ones where Sam learned about his father and brother. Chilled me to the bone. And perhaps Dany's failure to show much emotional response to the news about Viserion being turned into an ice dragon earlier on in the episode just fits the pattern. You couldn't have a greater contrast in the emotional response between a callous Dany going "oops, oh well" and Sam, who as a tender man, can even grieve for the death of his abusive father. And yes that made for a disturbing reveal to Jon, but that does feel right in some weird way for me (it's in line with getting a disturbing Purple Wedding). And Sam's final question to Jon hit me like a brick wall. It has been a very long time since the show made me feel that. I thought Kit actually acted really well in that scene too. That little twitch of his eyes before he nearly attacked Sam for making Ned out as a liar. Jon grasping for straws to distract himself of all the implications.

And Jaime's arrival was just as good. The shock on his face and Bran's glimmer of a smile signaling "welcome old friend". 

Because of the decline in the past of the show, my starting point of evaluating has been a 5/10, where I either detract or add. The issues I had with it, make me still start out with 5/10, but there was also a few excellent scenes and most good or very good scenes. And I can't believe myself that I actually will give this episode an 8/10.

 

 

[dbunting]

I gave it a 6. We all knew it was going to be a refresh and reset episode to get ready for the next few. As usual I have little interest in whats happening anywhere but the north.

[dbunting]

I liked the opening credits, seems like they put a lot of thought into them. I haven't read this entire thread so I may be just making same comments as everyone else.

I am sure I wasn't the only one who felt Arya and Gendry flirting with each other. Hey you look good...you do too....then Arya turns as she is leaving to see if he is still watching her... classic flirtation scene.

Had forgotten about Sam not knowing his dad and brother got roasted. Nice little plot tension maker there. Drive a wedge between Jon and Dany.

Jaime and Bran and preview. Will this be another spot where Dany and Jon have some tension and drama? He will want Jaime spared, Brienne maybe speaks up for him. Jon of course wants to keep all the "living" alive for the battle. During this scene does someone also mention that Jon is Aegon?  And one last question about that, since he pledged himself to Dany does that mean he gave up his rights to the throne? This is probably being discussed elsewhere.

Theon Yara just seemed like a waste. Maybe Theon shows up next episode and tells Dany that Yara is back on Iron Islands and she can fall back there. I wanted more of Yara.

The dragon riding, for me, was horrible. All I saw was that dog thing from the never ending story.  Last thing...if Dany freaks out and wants to leave after hearing about Jon being Aegon and tries to leave, wills Jons dragon decide to stay with him? Isn't there supposed to be a bond once mounted?

[Count Balerion]

Finally!

 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

35 minutes ago, Count Balerion said:

Finally!

 

This is the funniest review!

[Ser Quork]

7 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Finally!

 

Hurrah!  Doesn't disappoint.

[SerJorahsArmy]

I thought it was a really good episode. Not enough of Jorah for my liking. I'm surprised there was not more of a reaction from Dany after learning that the Night King has one of he dragons. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by SerJorahsArmy

[dbunting]

13 minutes ago, SerJorahsArmy said:

I thought it was a really good episode. Not enough of Jorah for my liking. I'm surprised there was not more a reaction from Dany after learning that the Night King has one of he dragons. 

Yeah it's something that they/she probably knew deep inside but until it was verbalized it wasn't real. I mean, they have dead horses and mammoths, why wouldn't they also get the dragon.

[storm.131]

Overall I was happy and gave it 8/10 but the crucial reunion scenes of the episode between Jon and Arya, and Jon and Sam, felt off.  I just didn't see why Bran insisted Sam tell Jon the truth about his birth alone.  It would have made more sense for them to tell him together.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

20 hours ago, storm.131 said:

Overall I was happy and gave it 8/10 but the crucial reunion scenes of the episode between Jon and Arya, and Jon and Sam, felt off.  I just didn't see why Bran insisted Sam tell Jon the truth about his birth alone.  It would have made more sense for them to tell him together.

It would kind of make sense for both of them to tell him, but why should they?

Bran knows that Jon trusts Sam like no other. When Bran and Jon meet again, you can see that Jon notices how Bran has changed. Not 'you're a man now'  but the look afterwards, when Bran replies with 'almost'.
Sam is someone who doesn't lie, and Jon knows it, he has seen and witnessed it far and beyond. Also, Sam has nothing to gain by telling him. Bran might....

Edited April 19, 2019 by Ser Walter of AShwood

[loverofcats]

9. I expected this episode to be rush. Is going to happen two big battles and they are  only six episodes. Like Bran said, is not time for talking. The two most important things, were very well explained: Jon can ride a dragon and he is Aegon Targaryen, legitimate heir of the Iron Throne. I think in this season will be more actions and less talk.
In front of the Night King the word have no value, no matter how smart it would be.

[Larger than Average Finger]

I gave it 8. I thought it was a tiny bit rushed, and given their ability to vary the length of the show, they could have added perhaps 2 or 3 more minutes. 

Very minor complaint though, it was a good episode

[MinscS2]

7/10.

As far as season-starters go, it was good. 
Some of the reunions where a bit underwhelming (Arya/Sandor, Sansa/Tyrion), and some didn't occur at all (Sansa/Sandor), but overall I'm pleased with it.
I'm also glad that the show progressed rapidly and several major points was, if not resolved, then at least brought up:
They know that the NK has Viserion and has broken trough the wall, Jon knows about his parentage and Jon has formed a bond with Rhaegal.

Slightly annoyed that the episode only was what, 54 minutes? So much for "fewer but longer episodes"...

Edited April 19, 2019 by MinscS2

[legba11]

They have listed the episode lengths, some are quite long.  If I remember right Ep 3, 5 and 6.

[SansaJonRule]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

I found those underplayed reserve from the characters rather realistic. Reminds us of the return to the Shire. These people may not be broken, but they are physically, emotionally and mentally wounded and still mending.

Very good comparison to the hobbits returning to the Shire and the wounds the characters bear in both stories .

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

Sansa apologising to Tyrion for escaping a sham of a marriage and an abusing tyrant as he was being poisoned when she had nothing to do with it. 

I took that to be tongue in cheek and I liked it. And her disappearing did cast that much more of a shadow of guilt on Tyrion.

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

The Hound's "word". I expect cold acting from these characters to each other, and the Hound can be crass, but that was too crass imo even for him. I could have gone with "You're a cold one, aren't you!". Though kudos on Rory for the warmer and proud "Well I guess that's why you're alive". 

Really? I'm not sure there is anything to crass for the Hound. But his following statement was great!

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

the waterfall scene that called out to Ygritte

I was thinking of Ygritte too, especially when Dany said they could stay there for a thousand years. It reminded me of Ygritte telling Jon they should have stayed in that cave. I got the impression Jon was supposed to be remembering her too and that was why he seemed so awkward in this scene. Maybe Drogon knew it too and that's why he was giving Jon that evil eye.

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

Jon grasping for straws to distract himself of all the implications.

That was a great scene. Kit played that in just the way you would expect Jon to take that kind of news. I would expect more questions from Jon before he actually believed it, but I'm sure we're supposed to assume that happens off screen rather than bore viewers going over stuff we already know.

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

Dany's failure to show much emotional response to the news about Viserion being turned into an ice dragon

So many people have brought this up. Isn't it possible that knowing other animals can be turned, Dany & Co. already guessed that Viserion had been turned? That was my assumption.

I thought Yara and Theon's reunion was great. It fit both their characters perfectly.

On 4/17/2019 at 11:51 AM, sweetsunray said:

And Jaime's arrival was just as good. The shock on his face and Bran's glimmer of a smile signaling "welcome old friend". 

Loved that scene! And it was a very fitting way to end the episode, IMO. There's a meme out about this. Have you seen it? Hilarious!

 

[SansaJonRule]

On 4/17/2019 at 6:58 PM, dbunting said:

I am sure I wasn't the only one who felt Arya and Gendry flirting with each other. Hey you look good...you do too....then Arya turns as she is leaving to see if he is still watching her... classic flirtation scene.

I did, but until others said something I thought perhaps I was seeing what I wanted to see. I've wanted them to get together from the start.

On 4/17/2019 at 6:58 PM, dbunting said:

if Dany freaks out and wants to leave after hearing about Jon being Aegon and tries to leave, wills Jons dragon decide to stay with him? Isn't there supposed to be a bond once mounted?

 

On 4/17/2019 at 6:58 PM, dbunting said:

since he pledged himself to Dany does that mean he gave up his rights to the throne?

Both very good questions!

Another question, who will actually believe that Jon is actually Aegon Targaryen? All that was in the maester's diary was that Rhaegar and Lyana got married, the rest comes from Bran. The northerners may believe him, but what about the rest of the people of Westeros? I would imagine southerners don't believe in wargs and greenseers (isn't that was Jojen called himself?), much less a "Three Eyed Raven".

[longest night]

The question is how they are going to prove he is Aegon and how much evidence do they need. Sam is in the library researching stuff and I am sure Bran is going through his visions. There's Howland Reed around as well. Jon can also ride a dragon, which is evidence enough of at least his bloodline. The fact he's a dragonrider and that Rhaegar and Lyanna wed could be enough.

Regardless, I think we will see a plot to make Jon king, probably with Sam and Sansa. being kingmakers. 

Once he is an acknowledged Targryen, the question remains of how he gets the support of the north and Eyrie. Once they find out Ned's blood really doesn't run through his veins and he's actually a Targaryen, I don't see them just following along. Marrying a someone from a major northern house would definitely cement that the throne would be Targaryen in name only.

Edited April 21, 2019 by longest night

[Rickon Stark The Aulë]

1 hour ago, longest night said:

The question is how they are going to prove he is Aegon and how much evidence do they need. Sam is in the library researching stuff and I am sure Bran is going through his visions. There's Howland Reed around as well. Jon can also ride a dragon, which is evidence enough of at least his bloodline. The fact he's a dragonrider and that Rhaegar and Lyanna wed could be enough.

Regardless, I think we will see a plot to make Jon king, probably with Sam and Sansa. being kingmakers. 

Once he is an acknowledged Targryen, the question remains of how he gets the support of the north and Eyrie. Once they find out Ned's blood really doesn't run through his veins and he's actually a Targaryen, I don't see them just following along. Marrying a someone from a major northern house would definitely cement that the throne would be Targaryen in name only.

 

What major Northern house would willingly marry their daughter to the grandson of the dude who burned their liege lord and his heir and his father kidnapped and raped Lyanna Stark(I believe they don't know if the marriage was consensual) ? Are there any other daughters in their late teens left in the North? 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Rickon Stark The Aulë

[AGS Martell]

I give it a 3. It was a mere re-union episode and nothing very interesting happened.

Cersei claiming for elephants felt somehow ridiculous and everyone in the internet seems to have felt the same, we have memes everywhere now.

I am still waiting for Euron being the bad ass guy they said he would be. For the time being, he is just another of Cersei's sex toy.

After many seasons, Bran still seems an uninteresting character to me. It has to be the actor, because the plot of having someone knowing it all is great, but its boring for me with that guy.

The dragon flight scene felt unnecessary. Jon is now confirmed as the last rider, but the moment it was done, the way, and the kiss scene... anti climatic.

Theon appearing from nowhere and rescuing his sister that easily... Really? It felt somehow predictable that the Winterfell battle will not go well and they will flee to the newly recovered Iron islands.

I'm getting tired of cock jokes. We know Tyrion is a character with better things to say.

 

The moment I liked the most was the Arya/Jon reunion.

[Talking Hodor]

On 4/15/2019 at 1:04 PM, Guest said:

The idea that you can hire unknown actors off the street to handle difficult material is proven wrong again as the acting here was awful.

Now I realize how subjective the statement "[so-and-so] can't act" really is.

Moreover, all actors at one time or another were unknown, possibly even living on the street. These were good enough to beat all their competitors for the role at their casting call, and ended up on the hugest TV show on the planet, so I'm pretty sure they're good at what they do.