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Let me just get this out there before the show starts.

Something is wrong with Jon's characterization when he overrides people's sovereignty because he's thinking with his dick (according to Maise). He's completely unrecognizable to me. 

Dany does things that he would hate: she threatens him and his people with dragon fire within the first minute of meeting him. She doesn't care if his people die; he's the prideful one who needs to bend the knee. She won't agree to help the North if she is at a disadvantage. She takes his boat and detains him. She wastes his time trying to get a promise from a woman who is lying to her anyway. She flies off to use her dragons even though he counseled her not to. She burns his best friend's family (if she also does that in the books, Dickon would be 11 years old). After she burns some wights he feels that she deserves the North and apparently anticipates that his siblings and his people will accept his new girlfriend (when he claimed they would not accept a southern ruler in E3). 

They shouldn’t be forced to call her queen just because Jon supposedly fell in love. He was given a second chance with resurrection and he is making similar Jon mistakes, similar Robb mistakes. Actually worse than Robb - at least he didn't give Talisa Targaryen exactly what she wanted, rule over the North. He is not listening to his people or paying attention to how his conduct sows discord with his family or his people. He took one of the rare instances of a quasi-democracy in the story and decided nah, absolute rule based on my dick is more important than sovereignty.

If your romance does all of that, it's bad. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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I think this is mostly just bad writing.  The Dumb and Dumber interviews post show rarely indicate they see how much of a sociopath they have written Dany as (very different then her book version).  They don't seem to understand the difference between strong woman and violent woman.  So I don't think they see it that way (I am with you).

 

As for how the North reacts, I expect they won't react well, so in that regard, I think the writing achieved what they are hoping for.  We'll see soon...

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So characterizing two girls that are in disagreement as "Cat fighting" is not ok, and sexist. 

Characterizing a guys decision in relation to a woman is "thinking with his dick". that's ok. 

Funny stuff feminism is. 

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Doesn't "cat fighting" means a fight between two women over something silly, like a dude? 

Where if two guys were fighting over a girl we'd just call them "dumb"?

Or does "cat fighting" mean more scratching and biting like real cats fighting?

Where if two dudes where scratching and biting each other we would call them Mike Tyson wannabe's?

 

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14 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

If your romance does all of that, it's bad. 

I somehow agree with your assessment -- however, that is how love works sometimes. Not every romance is a good one. Sometime you fall in love with someone who will be bad to you. It happens all the time. Love turns us into fools.

Further, extrem adventures experienced together make people fall in love much more easily. This is well-known psychological effect. Dany and Jon coming closer and falling in love after the wight expedition is psychologically understandable.

13 hours ago, legba11 said:

They don't seem to understand the difference between strong woman and violent woman. 

Well, I don't know whether they don't understand it or maybe the tightrope walk between "mad king" and "warrior queen" is intended? It's a great show and they surely have consulting regarding such aspects.

14 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

at least he didn't give Talisa Targaryen

Just as a side note: Her maiden name was Talisa Maegyr. She's not a Targaryen. She's from Volantis. 

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18 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Let me just get this out there before the show starts.

Something is wrong with Jon's characterization when he overrides people's sovereignty because he's thinking with his dick (according to Maise). He's completely unrecognizable to me. 

Dany does things that he would hate: she threatens him and his people with dragon fire within the first minute of meeting him. She doesn't care if his people die; he's the prideful one who needs to bend the knee. She won't agree to help the North if she is at a disadvantage. She takes his boat and detains him. She wastes his time trying to get a promise from a woman who is lying to her anyway. She flies off to use her dragons even though he counseled her not to. She burns his best friend's family (if she also does that in the books, Dickon would be 11 years old). After she burns some wights he feels that she deserves the North and apparently anticipates that his siblings and his people will accept his new girlfriend (when he claimed they would not accept a southern ruler in E3). 

They shouldn’t be forced to call her queen just because Jon supposedly fell in love. He was given a second chance with resurrection and he is making similar Jon mistakes, similar Robb mistakes. Actually worse than Robb - at least he didn't give Talisa Targaryen exactly what she wanted, rule over the North. He is not listening to his people or paying attention to how his conduct sows discord with his family or his people. He took one of the rare instances of a quasi-democracy in the story and decided nah, absolute rule based on my dick is more important than sovereignty.

If your romance does all of that, it's bad. 

Totally agree. I've been saying this for a while now. Jon keeps telling everybody that he bent the knee to Daenerys because they needed her army. That's a bold faced lie. She agreed to help him before he did. In the same scene no less. He literally gained nothing but her admiration and affection at the expense of his peoples' respect.

Plus there's the whole Targarian incest madness thing. This pairing was doomed from the start. Maybe that's the point? 

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15 minutes ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

I'm not sure what on this page you're referencing.

Oh, sorry - its the photo of Jon and Dany together with the phrase in big letters "nothing lasts"

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8 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Well, I don't know whether they don't understand it or maybe the tightrope walk between "mad king" and "warrior queen" is intended? It's a great show and they surely have consulting regarding such aspects.

 

It was a great show (imo), no longer.  Dumb and Dumber's commentary after the episodes seemed they thought she was just being a strong woman, BUT with Dany going full mustache-twirling in S8E1 lends credence to your case.  If they were just working the smarts and BSing in their commentary, more power to them, they fooled me.  

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22 hours ago, legba11 said:

I think this is mostly just bad writing.  The Dumb and Dumber interviews post show rarely indicate they see how much of a sociopath they have written Dany as (very different then her book version).  They don't seem to understand the difference between strong woman and violent woman.  So I don't think they see it that way (I am with you).

 

As for how the North reacts, I expect they won't react well, so in that regard, I think the writing achieved what they are hoping for.  We'll see soon...

How do you know she is different from the book version?  At the point the show overtook the books she was very similar to that of the books.

As for violent woman, are you suggesting that Dany was not violent in the books?

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1 hour ago, legba11 said:

It was a great show (imo), no longer.  Dumb and Dumber's commentary after the episodes seemed they thought she was just being a strong woman, BUT with Dany going full mustache-twirling in S8E1 lends credence to your case.  If they were just working the smarts and BSing in their commentary, more power to them, they fooled me.  

Insulting the show runners isn't very mature.  Despite your clear hatred for them and the show, you still choose to watch it and then come and discuss it.

Save your vitriol for the Rant and Rave thread and let's keep the other threads free from juvenile comments.

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While we have seen flashes of it in the books, her reactions have been much more tempered and careful.  If she matches the show in the later books then I will say the say thing of book Dany.

 

 

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Jon bent the knee to get that dragon pussy, it is known. After knowing what happened to Robb he should know better than making decisions thinking with his dick.

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I think we just have to take a step back and look at it another way... has he fallen in love with her now ? yes! but he was siding with her before this blossomed unless we are to assume it was love at first sight.. ex Mormont.

I believe all his decision have always been based on the good of his people/every living person, he took the black for the same reason and when he stepped away from the Black it was to continue his work but on a much larger scale than he was granted as one of the nights watch which was restricted to the wall and beyond.

Do I believe he thinks Dany is innocent ? No... he knows she has done wrong but I think he believes she has done everything for the greater good also she has people surrounding her vouching that jon trusts and values their judegement.

Remember Jon has made a lot of mistakes trusting his own judgements, Mutiny at CB young oliver etc... his decisions have made drama when he stuck to his own guns, I think now he is trusting others with better judgement Tyrion,Davos etc...

He is Lawful Good and she is Chaotic Good.. whether this will cause friction going on.. we shall see however right now in the land of Game of Thrones there are not many Good people with power he can ally with, infact it's safe to say he had two choices Cersei or Dany... and despite her harsh reactions at times at least Dany cares for people.

You forget they both want to bring peace, Dany believes Peace comes from her being on the throne as if anyone else is in power they will revert back to old ways, Jon isn't thinking that far ahead he is focused on peace from the White Walkers and to defeat them he needs an army.

As for Dany killing the Tarly's what was she do, I suppose imprisonment was an option but if she didn't show she was willing to kill they would have stayed loyal to the Lannister's as they would have no issue killing.

Lastly Jon has killed a lot of people, mostly out of self defence but a lot not, luckily none that had any significance to any of our other main characters mostly due to the fact his storyline has taken place at the wall and beyond, had he been more central like Dany mixing with the other houses I have no doubt he would have killed someone at some point that upsets another main character and we might not feel so warm to him and look upon him a little colder as we have Dany with the Tarly situation

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14 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Just as a side note: Her maiden name was Talisa Maegyr. She's not a Targaryen. She's from Volantis. 

I know I was just changing her name to illustrate a point. 

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12 hours ago, Xemi said:

After knowing what happened to Robb he should know better than making decisions thinking with his dick.

Probably they still don't understand that really. The Stark see this as betrayal by the Lannisters, as plot against them. They do not realise that choosing Talisa was a entirely stupid and unworthy thing after having given their word that Robb would marry a Frey daughter.

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On 4/15/2019 at 9:58 PM, legba11 said:

It was a great show (imo), no longer.  Dumb and Dumber's commentary after the episodes seemed they thought she was just being a strong woman, BUT with Dany going full mustache-twirling in S8E1 lends credence to your case.  If they were just working the smarts and BSing in their commentary, more power to them, they fooled me.  

Calling people dumb & dumber, and insulting people that you have never met on a personal level, just because you don't like their show, just shows how imature you are. 

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