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Rant and Rave Thread


teemo

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Balls joke in literally the first dialogue.

Jon and Dany acting juvenile.

Sansa and Dany acting juvenile.

Dany's displays of self-satisfaction.

Euron and Cersei... ugh.

Yara's rescue kind of came out of nowhere.

Overall it felt kind of both rushed and tedious. Although it looked great.

 

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Just scribbling as I watched.

New opening credits!  Now, I love the opening credits with a pash so this is a shock and it looks like this will be worth studying (more than the show’s plot, for sure).  I see the scenes have changed to GoT history we’ve witnessed rather than pre-GoT lore.  That’s quite cool.  And we’re going macro inside the buildings, which is really interesting.

That said, I’m really missing the little lift going up the Wall.

Still not enough snow, I see.

Didn’t mind the procession scene to see Arya’s reactions.  Always better than D&D dialogue.  As if to prove my point: We start with a eunuch joke – setting the tone, I see. Weary sigh.

I liked Jon’s reaction to seeing Bran but this dialogue is awful and I see we’re keeping Sandra Snark for this season and all the girls' mean-girl sniping.  :bs:

(What’s wrong with Sophie Turner’s face? It looks plastic.)

“Apologies for leaving,” says Sandra to St. Tyrion.  Seriously? Apologies. For. Leaving.  FFS!

:bang:

Apparently Sandra is the smartest person Arya’s ever met.  Wow, Arya who spent so much time with Tywin!  Talking about telling and not showing!  I’ve seen no evidence of Sandra's smartness - that’s hilarious.

Boring Cersei scene, and where is the snow that was falling on King's Landing at the end of season 7?

I wonder if there’ll ever be a point to show!Euron.  I mean, we all know what would have happened to Yara if book!Euron had her as a prisoner.

“If you want a queen, earn her.”  Next second: “On second thoughts, I’ll shag you after all.”

Followed by a nasty tits and arse scene – because … no, I’ve got nothing.

Theon’s rescue of Yara and their subsequent discussion were a little truncated.  Perhaps more of that and less of the Euron/Cersei pointlessness.

I do enjoy the dragon CGI, especially the movement, but the comedic element of Jon’s first dragon ride feels so forced and unnecessary.  As for the dragons ogling them when they kissed, D&D really do write like 14 year olds.

Forging dragonglass?  How does that work?  Pretty sure it would be worked like flint, etc. :dunno:

I didn’t mind Arya’s meeting with the Hound, but not so keen on the reunion with Gendry.  Everything feels so grudging all the time.

Now the Daenerys/Sam scene was interesting.  I thought John Bradley did well – I felt he conveyed his conflicted emotions well.  But secondly, I realise that the whole Randall & Dickon Tarly getting roasted (when really their characters would have bent the knee if they’d had any consistency) was done for the purpose of turning Sam against her.

Jon and Sam’s reunion didn’t feel forced, unlike others, although again it was rushed.  These are monumental revelations and it’s all rushed through to get from point to point. 

Still don’t think Jon should be Aegon though.  (I’m still banking Aemon for the books.)

The Last Hearth scene was odd. I wonder if we will learn if these spiral patterns will mean anything ultimately.  Probably not.

Last scene with Jaime seeing Bran did actually give me a chill.  (Again, no dialogue – just goes to show.)

Practically all of the dialogue is rubbish.  I did like, however, that Joffrey’s wedding “had its moments”. :thumbsup:

I would say where the hell is Ghost, but I’d rather not see him since we now know that if he appears it’ll only be so he’ll be killed for shocks and manipulation.  Stay away, Ghost!! Find Nymeria and stay away from Winterfell!

 

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There are a bunch of things I could nit pick about but my three real problems are ones that have been recurring over the last few seasons.

- They don't let the story tell the story tell the story and let the viewer come to natural conclusions. Sansa is the smartest person now? When did that happen? Because the way she acted this episode towards Dany (and how Dany was acting too) was pretty stupid. Let's not even try to allies with the person leading two massive armies and two dragons, instead just be a snotty bitch from the get go... makes sense. They just have other characters tell you things like she's smart even though nothing in the story makes it so.

- The dialogue is pretty bad for the most part. They started the episode with a dick joke. We get it Varys is a eunuch and Tyrion thinks it's funny. I don't know why they need a dick joke in every episode now, but it has been the norm for awhile. And Euron is the absolute worst written character in my opinion. He seems like his lines are written by a middle school aged kid who just learned what swear words and by using them all the time it makes him a badass. At best he is unbearable.

- Lack of emotional depth or tension. They knew they had all these reunions to do so, boom let's get them all out of the way in the first episode. Made them just feel underwhelming for the most part. I liked Arya and the Hounds though, feels like that's the type of reaction you would get from him. Theon just snuck onto the main ship in the middle of the harbor and killed everyone on board and rescued his sister then just sailed away (with three ships) and no one noticed? And it took about a minute on screen. The wall has fallen and the undead are marching on Winterfell with an Ice Dragon and no one seems rushed at all. Instead we have the catty fight between Dany and Sansa because... reasons? I just don't know what kind of pay off that could build to with the urgency of the undead coming down upon them soon.

 

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1 minute ago, Ser Quork said:

New opening credits!  Now, I love the opening credits with a pash so this is a shock and it looks like this will be worth studying (more than the show’s plot, for sure).  I see the scenes have changed to GoT history we’ve witnessed rather than pre-GoT lore.  That’s quite cool.  And we’re going macro inside the buildings, which is really interesting.

 

That said, I’m really missing the little lift going up the Wall.

Wall's gone. Night Watch left at the Wall wiped out with the remnant with Pyp I presume. With the Last Hearth fallen there are only 2 locations left on the map - WF and KL, and intriguingly the graphics focus on not so much 'inside' as UNDER both locations - the WF crypts and Dragon-skull basement of KL. Definitely intriguing.

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9 hours ago, Gertrude said:

Question - was Gendry working dragonglass like he would steel? I guess dragonglass is different than obsidian, but ... wouldn't it be better to just make an obsidian edge rather than a whole axe blade? When unloading, Gendry said they needed all of it they brought, so now he's wasting it on a non-edge part of the weapon? 

Not only that, but he is wasting a lot of material for one man's vanity. Sure, that man's the Hound. But I guess Jon, or no one else who's fought the WW, haven't decreed that they should only be making spear and arrow heads. After all, you don't need more than one small thrust to turn a WW into ice cubes or to kill a wight.

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I know this has already been mentioned, by how the hell has Dany managed to stay on Drogon without a saddle for four seasons? Especially Jon, whose first flying venture was seemingly at full speed with quite a bit of twisting and turning involved.

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3 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Not only that, but he is wasting a lot of material for one man's vanity. Sure, that man's the Hound. But I guess Jon, or no one else who's fought the WW, haven't decreed that they should only be making spear and arrow heads. After all, you don't need more than one small thrust to turn a WW into ice cubes or to kill a wight.

Just you wait. I saw they were building trebuchets and catapults in the first episode. I guarantee they will launch some large obsidian cannon ball or missile multiple times when the battle starts. How many spears and arrow heads could be made out of one of those? Thousands and thousands.

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5 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Not only that, but he is wasting a lot of material for one man's vanity. Sure, that man's the Hound. But I guess Jon, or no one else who's fought the WW, haven't decreed that they should only be making spear and arrow heads. After all, you don't need more than one small thrust to turn a WW into ice cubes or to kill a wight.

Yeh, I was looking at those 10,000 Unsullied spears thinking, "Useful".

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I always hate the first episode. For the past few seasons it has been treated as a, here are all your favorite characters and let's remind you where they stand on things. It's not a bad thing, but with six episodes left, I thought they would speed things up a tad.

The bad:

Everything with King's landing. D&D seem to be just stalling time there. Since all the action is north and they have to give Cersei screen time, it just seems like they are wasting a lot time there.

How to train your dragon. The whole riding sequence with Jon was just painful to watch, as well as Dany's "No one knows how to ride a dragon till they ride a dragon." 

Sansa is the smartest woman alive and her drama with Dany. Now, if a real fight or battle or w/e happens between Dany and Sansa, I take this back. 

Oh look, everyone survived the wall collapsing, how? Who knows...

"As you wish." When Gendry said that, I wanted to throw something at the TV. Don't bring the Princess Bride into this! (Just a pet peeve).

More dick/ball jokes. 

 

The good:

I really enjoyed Sam's reaction to his brother dying. It was well done and appropriate. I also like Jon's reaction. I thought it was well done and sets up potential good drama in the coming episodes. 

 

The ok?

It seems like (from my opinion) that this show doesn't know if it wants Dany to be a mad queen or not. Subtly they show it. With her smirking as the Northerners run from her dragons. Or the whole confrontation/remarks with Sansa. Then at the same time, has her show sympathy to Sam for killing his father and brother. It's a weird vibe that I guess shows the battle she is having internally to not be/or to be the mad queen. Or the show wants us to not hate her yet or try to make her a more complicated. I can't tell yet and probably won't know till the end. So this could become a good or bad thing...

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10 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Forging stone is so dumb... they would have needed better consulting on that part if their school knowledge is insufficient.

It was probably the same people who built Euron's fleet from the island with no trees.

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I thought it was funny when Yara said going to retake control of the Iron Islands, because Dany may need a base to retreat to. So is Yara is going to be building more ships, to make ready? In the same place, where Euron built his 1k ships? :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I thought it was funny when Yara said going to retake control of the Iron Islands, because Dany may need a base to retreat to. So is Yara is going to be building more ships, to make ready? In the same place, where Euron built his 1k ships? :lol:

Yeh, as supermario points out, hopefully the trees on the treeless islands have fully regrown ;-)

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42 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

the comedic element of Jon’s first dragon ride feels so forced and unnecessary. 

I agree.  The only way I can find this relevant is if when Dany finds out about Jon's parentage, she tries to take her dragons back (Dragonstone, elsewhere, IDK) and discovers that Rhaegal won't leave Jon because they've bonded. 

 

29 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

It seems like (from my opinion) that this show doesn't know if it wants Dany to be a mad queen or not. Subtly they show it. With her smirking as the Northerners run from her dragons. Or the whole confrontation/remarks with Sansa. Then at the same time, has her show sympathy to Sam for killing his father and brother. It's a weird vibe that I guess shows the battle she is having internally to not be/or to be the mad queen. Or the show wants us to not hate her yet or try to make her a more complicated. I can't tell yet and probably won't know till the end. So this could become a good or bad thing...

I have been internally warring about this, and, for what it is worth, this is what I have come up with:

Daenerys started in a very powerless position; thus, she is very reluctant to give up the power she has attained.  In this respect, she is similar to Sansa Stark.  I am not talking about how she wields her power, but her mental state that makes the idea of making herself weaker, or appear weaker, absolutely revolting.

This causes her to make poor choices - crucifying the slave masters, killing the khals, and burning the Tarlys. She could choose mercy, but fears that the mercy will allow her to be weak, thus being unable to help people as a whole.  She says as much to Jon Snow last season - the only way to help people is from a position of strength.  Sometimes strength is terrible.  So she sees her negative qualities as a necessary evil to promote the greater good.Finally, though, she is being forced to reckon with the choice.  Meereen consumed Seasons 4, 5, and 6, and the book Dance.  D&D seemed to suffer the same problem as GRRM in regards to Meereen - difficulty getting Daenerys to a point where she grasp the nuances of conquering and ruling.  Meereen just kind of became "peaceful" after her dragons burned some ships, which doesn't ring true.  Kinda a cop out. Hopefully Martin is working on a better resolution. Through Sam, though, Daenerys is confronted with the realization that Tyrion does offer good counsel - she just doesn't always take it, and with the realization that displays of strength can be a weakness in their own right. 

Jon is a man in this medieval world and for a bastard, had a fairly privileged upbringing.  He is told as much at Castle Black when he joined the Nights Watch.  Rereading the book A Game of Thrones, it struck me how whiny Jon actually is in that book.  But he realizes he can use his knowledge of swordsmenship to help others. He is continually thrusted into positions of power, and then makes the best out of it, but does not truly find enjoyment.  He says as much to Daenerys last season - she remarks that we all like what we are good at, but Jon says that he doesn't. 

Jon and Daenerys both execute people who have disobeyed their orders, so why do we find ourselves feeling differently about them?  Is it that Jon does not find enjoyment in the power, but Daenerys does?

The more I watch and the more I read, I think GRRM and D&D have a similar goal - to make the audience/reader realize their own hypocrisies.  We are revolted by Jaime and Cersei, but cheer Jon and Dany.  We are okay with things if people we like do them, but when people we don't like do them, we are revolted.

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We waited two years for Sam to tell Jon something, for Arya to wryly smile, and for Cersei to get boned.  

Seriously, at what point is this Stockholm Syndrome? 

What I Liked:

… And It Feels So Good: I liked the overall theme of the episode, namely the reuniting of all these characters – Tyrion and Sansa; Jon and Arya; Theon and Yaya (or whatever he name is); Jon and Sam; Jaime and Bran.  That was a good theme.  

The Queen In the North: The show begins by finding an untethered Lady Sansa Stark trying to hold together a fragile Northern Alliance (now with 40% fewer Starks) while her half-brother throws ALL THAT AWAY to bring in Dany Targ.  Sansa is very solid iin this episode because she says EVERYTHING the audience should be critically thinking: what did Jon do?  What is his rank in all this?  What will keep us all together now because- small detail here – NOBODY swore fealty to Lady Light-Them-Up?  How are we going to feed, like 10,000 people?  

And that last one is not trivial (more on that later).  

Sansa is the best character on the show currently; and that’s because the show built her slowly and painfully over the last 7 seasons. Unlike Arya who, in effect, woke up one morning and had super-powers, Sansa has been a slow burn and its been great.  That’s why when Arya says to Jon that Sansa is “The smartest person I know” we- as the audience – believe her (and that’s not just because like 64% of Westeroes has been slain).  Sansa’s entire storyline has been great and this episode showed her as she tries to hold the North together.  

Tell-It-Like-It-Is-Tarly: The episode sucked because we waited 2 years for nearly nothing to happen.  That was 55 minutes of filler (which, if you watch a few of the past seasons, is about right).  BUT… one thing that we did see was Sam telling Jon something that Jon should have been told ASAP, namely that R+L=J.  It’s a fantastic scene because Sam has bust been told that his father and brother have been burned to death and he reacts the way a human would; Jon is being very Jon (stoic yet approachable, not doing anything but it feels like he’s about to do something important).  And the two characters have a genuine moment that Sam just dive-bombs into “You are Aegon VI – congratulations and let’s kick that Usurper bitch off her dragons, eh?”  I kind of liked all that.

Jon Snow-Targaryen-Stark-Shabadoo (the worse name I have ever heard) and the Problems He has Brought: I like that Jon’s answer to the question of “How do we defeat the Night King” has serious consequences and they are being questioned by highly suspicious northerners.  This expresses an ongoing theme in the show and one I am happy to learn the showrunners did not discard, namely, that this is a feudal society and titles, bloodlines and ranks MATTER!  The fact that Jon keeps telling them its not important underlines how REALLY important it is.  I like that Jon THINKS he’s above it, but he’s not.  I like that it was Lady Mormont who brought it up because she is telling the audience and UNPOPULAR truth (my quibble with Lady M is that she generally seems to be a fan-service device, and this attack on the Starks was welcome). 

The Reuniting of House Greyjoy (this Night Only): I loved the way Theon broke out Asha-Stand-In and then she knocked him to the ground.  Solid.  Very true to all of them.  Nicely done.  

Waiting for a Friend: Okay, no joke, 100% bad-ass.  Amazing set up and amazing final shot.  No question, that’s legit good story telling.  

I cannot stress this enough - EVERYTHING remaining the episode was empty calories.  

What I am On the Fence About

The Sly Ironborn: While we are on the subject of the Ironmen rescuing Asha, when did the Ironborn become ninja?  No, like, seriously; a ship or small boat went along side the largest Reaver Ship – which presumably has the best crew – and in complete silence and stealth -killed everyone they came into contact with, found Asha, freed her and then snuck off the ship without alerting anyone?  Wait … wut?  
Because if its one thing this show has done really well its been laying the foundation for how subtle and tricky those Ironborn are… 

Arya Stark of the Wry Smile: So, about 15 minutes of this waste of an episode was dedicated to watching Arya Stark reacting to various things.  And it was always the same EXACT reaction.  
I wonder what that meeting was like when they wrote the episode: 

D: Hey D.

D: Hey nice to see you, D.  

D: Okay we have this super important scene where nothing happens so we have to make sure the audience watches. 

D: Oh, what episode is this?

D: The premier.

D: Oh, who gives a fuck?!  The viewership is locked in!  We could show grass growing and HBO’s numbers would triple! 

D: (laughs) I know, I know- fuck we could show a scene where Cerse describes her favorite ice cream and people would watch!

D: (laughing, slapping his desk, which is made up entirely of $100 bills) FUCK!  We could show like an 8-minute scene of Dany and Jon just flying mindlessly on their dragons FOR NO REASON AT ALL and then land then and stark making out and it would, literally, add nothing top the story at all and PEOPLE WOULD STILL WATCH!!!!! 

D: I KNOW!!!!  But, seriously, we have those opening scene where Dany is riding in with that prop we have of Kit Harrington; and everyone rides in. So, we have Arya out there.

D: Right so, how do we have her react to seeing Jon, I get it.

D: So I was thinking that Arya waves to Jon which would be a completely normal thing for a 13 year old girl to do when she sees the brother she loves and has not seen in 6 years.  

D: NAH!  She can’t do that!  That would be … normal.  And we have made Arya into basically a Jedi so… 

D: Right… so… god this is hard because if this were ANY OTHER SCENE you and I write, we would just have 6 characters get killed for NO REASON AT ALL and Arya would be left holding a Dothraki screamer’s genitals in one hand and six Lannister bannerman in the other.  And everyone would puke up platitudes to us for making Arya such a great character.  

D: I mean… she’s in Winterfell, she sees Jon.  What would we have Arya do that the audience would like but does not advance the plot in any way whatsoever?

D and D look at each other and immediately exclaim: WRYLY SMILE!!!!!  

D: Of course; why had I not thought of that before.  She just sort of smiles for no reason at all; it’s a meaningless gesture that portrays nothing except how cool and edgy Arya is and how far she has come.

D: Except not at all. 

D: Okay, then she sees the Hound ride by.  What should her reaction be?

D: You mean to the man she stole from, left for dead and now seems healthy as a horse? 

D: Right!

D&D (in unison): WRYLY SMILE!!! 

D: PERFECT!

D: Okay, then she sees Gendry who is sort of her kindred spirit; she clearly has genuine, human emotions for him, which for a sociopath is quite commendable; she could possibly even love him. She is happy he is not dead.  She sees him and … 

D and D (in unison): WRYLY SMILES!!!!

D: God, this episode practically writes itself!  Okay, now, everyone looks up to the sky and suddenly two huge monstrous figures appear; for the first time in 200 years the people of Winterfell see a Dragon… but this time its TWO dragons!!!!  People explode in terror and panic – as they would because Dragons are fucking scary -so Arya looks up and …

D: I don’t think I need to say another word – she jumps in the air and slices one of their heads off!  Because its Arya and she at 12 was able to fight Brienne of Tarth to stand-still and somehow had the ability to kill an entire house by poisoning one barrel of wine without anyone suspecting a thing! Because that’s good character development!  

D: I was thinking that instead – and don’t get me wrong, Arya could absolutely kill a Dragon – I was thinking nstead maybe the sight of two mythical creatures that would scare the piss out of anyone would instead mayke her … wryly smile.

D: I see… hmmm… we have two equally good ideas here – neither make any sense and in no way do anything but waste time and consumer good-will.  What should we do?

D: How about we have Arya wryly smile this time but later on she will chop off somebody’s head- maybe even a Dragon’s!?

D: Perfect.  And then we can finally tell people who sent that assassin to Bran’s room in the second episode of the series, a glaring indication of our utter lack of attention to detail and ability to tell coherent stories when left to our own devices… 

D&D (in unison at each other … wryly smile) 

AND SCENE!   

Will Anyone Answer Sansa’s Question: No, really, assholes- how the fuck will you feed all these people?  I mean you have like 20 Northern lords with their men and then have roughly 10K Unsullied.  And two dragons.  No, really, how in the name of fuck-sakes are you feeding these people? An AVERAGE adult male takes 2000 calories a day; and the Unsullied are precision-trained killing machines that are always training and drilling- they are burning calories.  And its also cold and the body needs those calories to stay warm.

Seriously… will somebody answer this woman’s question.  Please? 

Cersei The Queen for Some Unknown Reason: So, I guess the scene with Euron and Cersei was to show the audience that Cersei is banging this guy because she is not, in fact, pregnant as she told Tyrion last season (I think- I honestly forgot it was so long ago).  So, that’s all fine but HOLY HELL- does she need to get laid that badly?  Pick anyone- there has to be somebody she trusts more than a fucking Greyjoy?  No?  Really?

What I Hated:

The Lazy Godswood Scene: Okay, I DID NOT hate this scene, but let me explain.

When we started to appreciate this series we all- each of us – in our way – built the scene in our head where Arya and Jon were reunited.  We all built up something that would bridge these two characters back together.  And what we go was … a remarkably plain and utterly uninspired scene that ANY ONE OF US could have written!  The scene we got was completely satisfactory, but the people making this show could not add anything that made it special and beyond average.  In fact, when they got to Needle and Jon asks Arya if she ever used it, I LITERALLY SAID OUT LOUD “Once or twice.”  And then Arya said that same thing (I did the same thing with Cersei in the throne room with “buy a whore… earn a queen” line).  So, to sum up, I CAN NOW ANTICIPATE WHAT GoT dialog will be.

And that’s unbelievably disappointing because the scenes they create need to be better than what I can think up off the top of my head.  That scene between Arya and Jon was uninspired, lazy and what I would expect from somebody just riffing on the scene.  The writers have done absolutely nothing to show that they can “knock it out of the park”; of that their involvement in the show raises it to any appreciable level.  

And that’s the whole show now.  Its perfectly acceptable TV.  But its nothing that takes a show to “the next level” where we see actual, sincere advancement from “basic stuff any soap-opera writer could come up with” to “transcends the medium.”  There is no “I-am-the-one-who-knocks” moments; there is no “Sopranos Black Out”; there is no “Suitcase” a-la Madmen; there is nothing happening that shows me anything on screen that a second-year college student could not produce.  

That does not make the show “bad.”

It's just not great.  And it hasn't been for a while.  
 

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1 hour ago, btfu806 said:

It seems like (from my opinion) that this show doesn't know if it wants Dany to be a mad queen or not. Subtly they show it. With her smirking as the Northerners run from her dragons. Or the whole confrontation/remarks with Sansa. Then at the same time, has her show sympathy to Sam for killing his father and brother. It's a weird vibe that I guess shows the battle she is having internally to not be/or to be the mad queen. Or the show wants us to not hate her yet or try to make her a more complicated. I can't tell yet and probably won't know till the end. So this could become a good or bad thing...

She's like that in the books too... She started as a good character but since ASOS she oscillates between "saviour of all people" and "mad queen"

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