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teemo

Rant and Rave Thread

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I’m not sure when Sansa became the smartest girl in the world. I like her, but that felt like shilling. Also, Theon’s storyline in this episode was awful. Him saving Yara was way to easy and him going to fight for the Starks is just awful. They held him hostage. One of the best things about the character in the books is the conflict that came from his dual relationship with the Starks as both a hostage and a ward. It’s also a bit jarring for me to hear the Northerners going on about how they won’t accept a foreign ruler (fair enough) while watching Yohn Royce walking behind Sansa like a dog on a leash. The Vale becoming part of Jons Kingdom was really dumb and they’ve basically lost their identity like almost every other region with the exception of the North, the Iron Islands and maybe the Westerlands.

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^ Yes, D&D's fixation on narrowing the whole tale down to a lovey-dovey will-they-won't-they plot has rendered too many key characters totally superfluous now. Not only is Theon pointless, but I can't see what Varys is for, or even Tyrion.

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This is not entirely on topic, but I watch too many youtube reviews / podcasts. The shit people pull out of their ass and the theories they have based on the show and "wouldn't that be COOL!" rivals the best tinfoil this board can produce. Sorry, just listening to someone theorizing about Arya and her faceless powers and I'm sick of people taking that to mean she essentially has super magical, limitless powers and can do anything. In this one podcast, I've already heard that Ned didn't die because Jaqen was in the dungeons and why would a faceless man be anywhere he didn't want to be? (ignore that this doesn't make any narrative let alone logistical sense), Littlefinger hired a faceless man to take his place and he is still alive, and Arya was lurking in the courtyard when Jon arrived, she just had on a different face. They just need to work in how Arya will take Jaime's face and kill Cersei and we've got a full house, folks!

I know we all know this, but the show really mishandled the whole House of Black and White and their skills, face magic, ethos, affordability, etc. Fuckin' show.

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4 hours ago, Lee-Sensei said:

... Also, Theon’s storyline in this episode was awful. Him saving Yara was way to easy and him going to fight for the Starks is just awful...

Yes, it looked so easy. Theon must have some important part in saving Dany or something like that, then he dies.

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2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

^ Yes, D&D's fixation on narrowing the whole tale down to a lovey-dovey will-they-won't-they plot has rendered too many key characters totally superfluous now. Not only is Theon pointless, but I can't see what Varys is for, or even Tyrion.

It’s a shame too. It was mostly great when it started.

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38 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

Yes, it looked so easy. Theon must have some important part in saving Dany or something like that, then he dies.

I half expected Euron to capture them. There were rumours that that’s what was going to happen to the Greyjoys. personally hope that Dany and Jon don’t end up really ruling by the end of the series. That would be so predictable, but then again so was Rhaegar and Lyanna. I’d rather it be someone random. All hail King Hotpie!

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Only just watched this as there is nothing else on....

A few of my issues were the first red dragons fly-past winterfell, dont know if this was my streaming quality, but it looked like it was out of a dungeon and dragons movie quality.

Why would rhaegar name jon aegon, he already had a son called aegon, so why wouldnt he choose a different flipping name!

The golden company has doubled to 20000 and harry strickland has become young and handsome with tip top feet.

Drogon is apparently an incest loving voyeur.

The dragon flight together reminded me a bit of avatar with those pterodactyl things, also make a flipping saddle for them as thats what all the dragonlords of old did! 

So sad to see the nuance and characters of the book so poorly displayed. 

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On 4/15/2019 at 6:33 AM, SansaJonRule said:

IT WAS ONLY AN HOUR!!!!!!!!!  What happened to only 6 episodes but they will all be well over an hour?

Cersei had sex with Euron. Ick. Anyone having sex with Euron, ICK!

I know Arya is a "cold little bitch" these days, but she and Jon were each other's favorites. That reunion at least should have been more emotional.

Not even that, only 50mins including the intro 

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- Well, the thing about Cersei hiring Bronn to assassinate Tyrion and/or Jaime was absolute bollocks. She had the chance to kill both of them exactly one week earlier or something, in Season 7 Episode 7, and as probably everyone remembers she could not bring herself to do it even with Tyrion. Especially considering that she loves Jaime and is pregnant with his child, why in Seven Hells would she want to kill him now? And if she had wanted Tyrion dead she should have done it while she had the chance. So yeah, that was completely ridiculous

I also have a lot of other things to comment on but I can't remember everything right now.

Jon and Arya's reunion is like the Top 5 reunion in the entire series and should have been way more emotional and dramatic, with more tears and even more sad music and so forth... #ATimeForWolves

Obviously Sam can't do anything about his family since Daenerys is in fact the Queen and is super powerful, but nonetheless he has no balls whatsoever and she barely had to be confronted by her actions in burning Dickon. I liked Dickon and it was very sad that he was killed, so Daenerys should have been more afflicted by Sam's grief and had a more regretful response to Sam's reaction...

Jon's bonding with and riding of Rhaegal should have been a way bigger deal when she first decided to let him try it; she is deciding the one other person in the entire world who can ride her dragon, so it's a huge moment - and she should also have commented on the dragons liking him, giving the viewers another extra hint about his Targaryen heritage or something... It's what everyone has been waiting for since like season 5 so once Jon Snow rides a bloody dragon it should be more of a thing for them.

But otherwise, for once, overall the episode was quite all right. Or maybe I've just gotten used to everything being a bit half-arsed and lowered my expectations since the truly golden episodes of Seasons 1-4...

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On 4/20/2019 at 1:41 AM, House Cambodia said:

^ Yes, D&D's fixation on narrowing the whole tale down to a lovey-dovey will-they-won't-they plot has rendered too many key characters totally superfluous now. Not only is Theon pointless, but I can't see what Varys is for, or even Tyrion.

funny of you to mention them because for some seasons now they all have the same purpose:

 

DICK JOKES

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I just want to add that every moment we've been wondering about how they are going to happen in the books such as reunions, reveals and all, they ALL fall flat on this show.

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1 hour ago, Saturno said:

funny of you to mention them because for some seasons now they all have the same purpose:

 

DICK JOKES

It's obvious they don't know what to do with these characters; since their story arcs changed, they became useless. Expect Varys to die (or live) ridiculously and do nothing until that time comes.

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Phew.  I've read the whole thread now.  Thank you for entertaining me as I'm beyond even hate watching now!

It's bad enough being let down so badly by something you had high hopes for but it's also the fact that most people (even people I like and respect) seem to have succumbed to some mass delusion.

I was at the park with my show loving friend and pointed out a funky grandma in an "I drink and I know things" tee shirt.  Ugh.  It's that feeling of people taking ownership of something you love, turning it into something else, and not even knowing they're doing it.  I think my friend got where I was coming from though.

Looking forward to your episode 2 rants!

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On 4/17/2019 at 9:59 AM, Ghostlydragon said:

And great to be here. LTRFTW. I loved this topic in season 7 and was determined to join in this time. So many people fail to see the shows faults but this thread is heavenly. Nice to read from some smart people

Isn't it?  Most people look forward to the show starting, I see the promos and think "Yes!  Time for Rant and Rave again!"  (And this time, the small hope that no more GoT means we might finally get Winds of Winter :laugh:)  

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8 hours ago, Neddy's Girl said:

Isn't it?  Most people look forward to the show starting, I see the promos and think "Yes!  Time for Rant and Rave again!"  (And this time, the small hope that no more GoT means we might finally get Winds of Winter :laugh:)  

Yep, I live for this thread because after every episode I just feel so frustrated (I hate-watch since season 4) and I'm glad we can share this feelings here because, like you said, it seems like everyone else is indoctrinated into worshipping this show and IT'S CLEAR, even if you didn't read the books, the drop in quality and writing this show had since season 4 (the seeds were planted in season 3 tho) so I just don't know what is up with people.

Everytime there was a new season I thought "can't wait, more rant and rave threads and Preston Jacob videos", that's all I need

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1 hour ago, Nami said:

Yep, I live for this thread because after every episode I just feel so frustrated (I hate-watch since season 4) and I'm glad we can share this feelings here because, like you said, it seems like everyone else is indoctrinated into worshipping this show and IT'S CLEAR, even if you didn't read the books, the drop in quality and writing this show had since season 4 (the seeds were planted in season 3 tho) so I just don't know what is up with people.

Everytime there was a new season I thought "can't wait, more rant and rave threads and Preston Jacob videos", that's all I need

Season 5 wasn't that bad. It had some nice moments.

Season 6 was much better though.

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So is there any reason why D&D are absolute trash for showrunners?

Like why are they so bad? I haven't seen anyone fumble like this in a long time.

I mean, they had over half of the story written already. They literally could have written their own ending based on what they already had (which is quite a lot: they had notes and commentary from GRRM and they had five very long, very rich books) and kept it moving.

The writers, producers and directors of the Harry Potter actually had LESS than what D&D had when the Harry Potter movies were being made but they still managed to do a great job adapting the stories.

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34 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Season 5 wasn't that bad. It had some nice moments.

Season 6 was much better though.

wasn't season 5 the bad pussy season? because if it was good lord...
that was the worst season

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31 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

So is there any reason why D&D are absolute trash for showrunners?

Like why are they so bad? I haven't seen anyone fumble like this in a long time.

I mean, they had over half of the story written already. They literally could have written their own ending based on what they already had (which is quite a lot: they had notes and commentary from GRRM and they had five very long, very rich books) and kept it moving.

The writers, producers and directors of the Harry Potter actually had LESS than what D&D had when the Harry Potter movies were being made but they still managed to do a great job adapting the stories.

One likely reason is that they're simply bad at what they do. GoT soared on the back of George's storytelling, continued to grow once it reached critical mass, and HBO had no reason to replace D&D because the show was more successful than they had expected even with bad writing.

A kinder (and also quite logical) explanation is that they didn't have enough writers for a healthy script writing cycle. Especially in the later seasons, they used to write 70-80% of the scripts, which is an enormous amount of work for two people who are also the producers. Good shows tend to have more writers. They break the story for the whole season together, then each member of the team goes on to write the actual script for about two episodes, three at most... not six or seven. Then they go over the whole thing together and make changes if any are needed.

D&D write most episodes together. That probably slows them down compared to two people writing half the episodes separately. They're probably in a hurry to finish everything in time for production. If they make mistakes, they can't afford to worry about them. If they don't do a proper season blocking in the beginning (which they may be inclined no to do, except for what happens in the 2 or 3 episodes written by other people, because "they're in charge anyway"), they may realize along the way that a plot line doesn't work (such as Dorne, or the Wight Hunt), but it won't matter because they won't have time to change it. When the alternative is delaying production, which would likely mean delaying the season for a year, they just have to brazen through and pretend it works.

Having more writers would have helped them in two crucial ways:

  • The blocking stage would have been pretty much necessary, so they would have had to do it right even if they consider themselves too cool for school. This stage would have also been implicitly better with more heads mulling over ideas, plot lines and character decisions.
  • More writers would have meant more flexibility. Say they had 5 months between season end and production. Each writer would have had only 2, maximum 3 episodes to write in this interval. No need to rush, plenty of time left to polish the script, or even replace it if it was bad. With a team of two writing 7 episodes out of 10 together, they would have been constantly pressed for time.

I have no idea how much money they saved by not having 2 or 3 more writers, or if it was an ego thing or an incompetence thing, but I'm sure it was a major contributing factor. Fewer writers probably worked when they could swipe lines from the books, but later on? Very bad idea.

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2 hours ago, Nami said:

Yep, I live for this thread because after every episode I just feel so frustrated (I hate-watch since season 4) and I'm glad we can share this feelings here because, like you said, it seems like everyone else is indoctrinated into worshipping this show and IT'S CLEAR, even if you didn't read the books, the drop in quality and writing this show had since season 4 (the seeds were planted in season 3 tho) so I just don't know what is up with people.

Everytime there was a new season I thought "can't wait, more rant and rave threads and Preston Jacob videos", that's all I need

I wonder if its actually any worse in itself  than say True Blood or Lost were in later seasons.  I saw both of those through to the bitter end, but I wasn't so attached to the source material (none for Lost I don't think) and people were nowhere near as OBSESSED as they are with this. 

Talking of Preston Jacobs: (of the North) "What do these people eat?  Corpses, mud, and badly lit scenes?" :lmao:

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