dany and sansa

[Mystical]

7 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

The Sansa Dany feud is petty and ridiculous when they have bigger problems heading their way. They need to move on. Is Sansa holding what the mad king did against Dany? Because that's stupid. Dany even apologized to Jon on behalf of House Targaryen for something that happened before she was even born. Is she only upset that Jon bent the knee because it's not in the interest of the North? Also stupid considering they're at war. The fact is Dany took her cue from the way Sansa received her. Sansa made it clear that she wasn't welcomed there, a sentiment shared by the majority of the Northerners present, yet Dany is acting arrogant and entitled? I'm sorry but if i'm at a place where people clearly dislike me despite the fact that i've never done anything to them, I'd be cautious and withdrawn too. If the dragons make her feel safer then hell yes, smirk away. No one is saying Sansa should have brought out a feast or laid out the red carpet, but at least as the Lady of Winterfell she should have had more grace, a little less obvious hostility. They don't have to be best friends but they can be civil especially since they're supposed to be on the same side. 

That being said I do think when the Army of the Dead arrives at Winterfell, everyone will be the best of friends since there will be no time for silly little rivalries 

Dany apologized to Jon. So Sansa watched S7 on DVD and knew that then? And so what if they don't like Dany? Are they supposed to be like everyone else and immediately fall in love with her? How realistic. /s

Dany can either be a god damn hero and help save the realm which would give her one hell of a positive reputation. Or she can act like a 5 year old on the playground when told she isn't allowed to play in the sandbox by the other kids, throw a tantrum and take her toys and leave. Funny how people argue that all this pettiness doesn't matter because of the bigger picture but it's only in regards to Sansa and the North. The same is true for Dany. They don't like you? Big whoop. There are bigger fish to fry, so swallow it and stop acting as if you are entitled to everyone's boot licking.

[DanyDayne]

6 minutes ago, Mystical said:

Without Dany, the AotD wouldn't be in Westeros. That's something everyone should know as well, don't you think? After all, the NK broke through the wall with one of her dragons. Opps. Which btw proves that the dragons are not much of an asset. If the NK wasn't so lazy, Dany would be without all dragons by now.

Without Dany, Jon and everyone who made the trip would be dead, the NK would have still made it past the wall, it would have just taken longer. Everyone would still be ignorant of the threat of the NK and WW and fighting among themselves. It's really just a flip of the coin here. 

[Mystical]

4 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

So the NK and the AotD wouldn’t have breached the Wall (that the Wildlings constantly got over/around) without Dany’s dragon, but they would have made it to Essos? Ok...

You do know that there was magic build into the wall right? The same magic that prevented the dead from entering the 3ER's cave. The Wildlings got over it because they are not the dead so the magic won't stop them. So your argument hold no water.

And the AotD making it to Essos eventually is a natural conclusion because water freezes. And there is no Childrens magic that I'm aware of past the wall.

[DanyDayne]

1 minute ago, Mystical said:

Dany apologized to Jon. So Sansa watched S7 on DVD and knew that then? And so what if they don't like Dany? Are they supposed to be like everyone else and immediately fall in love with her? How realistic. /s

Sigh. 

The point is their hostility is based on past actions that are no fault of the present generation, despite the fact that Dany acknowledged it. And that's exactly my point, they don't have to like her, if they want to be petty then fine. But why come at Dany when she smirks because her dragons scared them? She's allowed to be petty too if that's the case. Neither of them are right so let's all just be idiots and ignore the real threat. 

[Nictarion]

Just now, Mystical said:

You do know that there was magic build into the wall right? The same magic that prevented the dead from entering the 3ER's cave. The Wildlings got over it because they are not the dead so the magic won't stop them. So your argument hold no water.

And the AotD making it to Essos eventually is a natural conclusion because water freezes. And there is no Childrens magic that I'm aware of past the wall.

So then all the AotD had to do was go around if freezing water would be so easy. 

And the magic in the Wall did nothing to stop the NW brother from coming back to life and attacking Jeor. At the Wall. 

[Mystical]

4 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

Without Dany, Jon and everyone who made the trip would be dead, the NK would have still made it past the wall, it would have just taken longer. Everyone would still be ignorant of the threat of the NK and WW and fighting among themselves. It's really just a flip of the coin here. 

The trip north should never have happened to begin with. And Dany was in charge of that. She was the leader who gave the ok to Tyrion's stupid plan. So she shares responsibility for the army being past the wall.

The whole show is stupid filled with stupid characters making stupid decisions because the writers are morons. They could have had Wildlings and NW brothers make the threat clear to everyone. They could have tried to put a criminal on the other side of the wall and see if he turned so they have a weight to show everyone. Or Jon should have insisted in S7 that him and Dany take a quick trip north on a dragon just so she can see the threat. Just to show her, not to engage in a fight. Cersei should have been ignored since she has no army anyway.

[Mystical]

4 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

So then all the AotD had to do was go around if freezing water would be so easy. 

And the magic in the Wall did nothing to stop the NW brother from coming back to life and attacking Jeor. At the Wall. 

Well of course the AotD only had to wait for winter and aid the freezing of oceans with the cold they bring and then simply walk around the wall. That should have been the story. But that's not what D&D chose to do. So that's a moot point. We can only discuss what actually happened. And sadly D&D chose to have it be the 'heroes' who sped up the invasion with their stupidity.

I don't even know how the NW brother thing worked because it makes no sense. Maybe the turning process is not hindered by the magic, only when they are arisen as wights.

11 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

The point is their hostility is based on past actions that are no fault of the present generation, despite the fact that Dany acknowledged it. And that's exactly my point, they don't have to like her, if they want to be petty then fine. But why come at Dany when she smirks because her dragons scared them? She's allowed to be petty too if that's the case. Neither of them are right so let's all just be idiots and ignore the real threat.

When did the smallfolk show her any pettiness? Those are the people that ran in fear. While she looked like she was having an orgasm. The pettiness against her didn't start until she faced the lords in WF. So if the North is ignorant of the bigger picture by being petty, then so is Dany when she gets off on instilling fear in the smallfolk.

[btfu806]

17 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

And that's exactly my point, they don't have to like her, if they want to be petty then fine. But why come at Dany when she smirks because her dragons scared them? She's allowed to be petty too if that's the case. Neither of them are right so let's all just be idiots and ignore the real threat. 

If she wants to be a true "good leader/ruler", she should be above any petty-ness. To me, that scene came off as her continuing to go down the path of a tyrant, not liking the northerners because of reasons? Them not kneeling? Whatever else.

[Raksha 2014]

4 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

If she wants to be a true "good leader/ruler", she should be above any petty-ness. To me, that scene came off as her continuing to go down the path of a tyrant, not liking the northerners because of reasons? Them not kneeling? Whatever else.

 

Yes, it was rather unpleasant to see Dany smirking while the Northerners, who are worried enough about making it through the Winter alive without having to cope with ginormous livestock-consuming lizards, cringe in fear of her "children" flying over them...

 

[Nictarion]

I didn’t take her smirk about the dragons as anything but her being proud of her babies when so many people were in awe of them. 

[Mladen]

2 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I didn’t take her smirk about the dragons as anything but her being proud of her babies when so many people were in awe of them. 

TBH, me neither. And if it was anything more than that, it was just a snark response to Sansa's snarky comment. But, I hate that Dany has been so quiet. As I said, Missandei said that she had won people's hearts in Essos. She could have done that here. But she choose to remain silent and leave Tyrion and Jon to speak on her behalf. I only hope it won't continue to the next season and that she will start speaking with her subordinates. 

[Tagganaro]

12 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

If she wants to be a true "good leader/ruler", she should be above any petty-ness. To me, that scene came off as her continuing to go down the path of a tyrant, not liking the northerners because of reasons? Them not kneeling? Whatever else.

I definitely got this sense as well.  Setting up a lot of conflict between Dany and Jon.  The Sam stuff adds to that too, I particularly liked him asking Jon if Jon thinks Dany would also give up her throne to save her people (which from what we've seen recently, I'd say the answer is no).  But she may come around by the end, think they could go in multiple directions but there will be conflict before we get to the big battles I'd guess.  

[Mladen]

57 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

The Sansa Dany feud is petty and ridiculous when they have bigger problems heading their way. They need to move on. Is Sansa holding what the mad king did against Dany? Because that's stupid. Dany even apologized to Jon on behalf of House Targaryen for something that happened before she was even born. Is she only upset that Jon bent the knee because it's not in the interest of the North? Also stupid considering they're at war. The fact is Dany took her cue from the way Sansa received her. Sansa made it clear that she wasn't welcomed there, a sentiment shared by the majority of the Northerners present, yet Dany is acting arrogant and entitled? I'm sorry but if i'm at a place where people clearly dislike me despite the fact that i've never done anything to them, I'd be cautious and withdrawn too. If the dragons make her feel safer then hell yes, smirk away. No one is saying Sansa should have brought out a feast or laid out the red carpet, but at least as the Lady of Winterfell she should have had more grace, a little less obvious hostility. They don't have to be best friends but they can be civil especially since they're supposed to be on the same side. 

Sansa has the right to mistrust Dany. Just like Jon had the right to mistrust her when he first saw her. It would be a poor storytelling to have Sansa braiding Dany in the first episode. So, some coldness is expected. Sansa did  open the gates of WF, she is there, welcoming Dany, and yes, even saying the words. She is surrendering her home to someone she has no idea about. But, she does that. Why?

1. She does trust Jon no matter what people say

2. She does understand they need her.

It is not too smooth of transition but we'll get there. Remember Lyanna Mormont and how she welcomed Jon and Sansa? When two people like Dany and Sansa get to know each other better, I am rather confident that they will grow to be allies. And they have a lot to bond over. Family and personal tragedies, they share quite a lot. They can understand each other better than many others. So, I am waiting for either one of them to start conversing (it seems that we will see that in Episode 2) because I believe they will make a great team.

[btfu806]

2 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

I definitely got this sense as well.  Setting up a lot of conflict between Dany and Jon.  The Sam stuff adds to that too, I particularly liked him asking Jon if Jon thinks Dany would also give up her throne to save her people (which from what we've seen recently, I'd say the answer is no).  But she may come around by the end, think they could go in multiple directions but there will be conflict before we get to the big battles I'd guess.  

I think you're right with them setting up conflict with Dany and Jon, which could be good. 

And I agree with you, she would never give up the throne to save people. 

[Nictarion]

7 minutes ago, Risto said:

TBH, me neither. And if it was anything more than that, it was just a snark response to Sansa's snarky comment. But, I hate that Dany has been so quiet. As I said, Missandei said that she had won people's hearts in Essos. She could have done that here. But she choose to remain silent and leave Tyrion and Jon to speak on her behalf. I only hope it won't continue to the next season and that she will start speaking with her subordinates. 

I was actually talking about her supposedly liking that the dragons were scaring people. To me if was just her being proud of them. They’re an extremely big deal after all. 

I didn’t take her comment to Sansa as a threat either though. Or when she was talking to Jon about her. 

[Mrmanick1182]

11 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

I think you're right with them setting up conflict with Dany and Jon, which could be good. 

And I agree with you, she would never give up the throne to save people. 

Question... How would giving up her throne save people? Because the people that dont like House Targaryen will suddenly do a 180 and like House Targaryen because Jon is in fact a Targaryen. Umm seems rather hypocritical to me. 

Oh and the unsullied, dothraki and dragons will all bow down to king aegon just because. 

And then all the people in the other 6 kingdoms will all bow down and unite under King Jon because a cripple northern boy told them to. 

 

[Mrmanick1182]

7 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I was actually talking about her supposedly liking that the dragons were scaring people. To me if was just her being proud of them. They’re an extremely big deal after all. 

I didn’t take her comment to Sansa as a threat either though. Or when she was talking to Jon about her. 

I saw all of this exactly how you did. 

[Lord Varys]

There is no reason for this entire conflict. These people don't know each other and the obvious solution for this conundrum is to propose THE FUCKING AND OBVIOUS MARRIAGE ALLIANCE!

How stupid do you have to be to not realize this?!

[btfu806]

36 minutes ago, Mrmanick1182 said:

Question... How would giving up her throne save people? Because the people that dont like House Targaryen will suddenly do a 180 and like House Targaryen because Jon is in fact a Targaryen. Umm seems rather hypocritical to me. 

Oh and the unsullied, dothraki and dragons will all bow down to king aegon just because. 

And then all the people in the other 6 kingdoms will all bow down and unite under King Jon because a cripple northern boy told them to. 

 

People see her as a foreign threat, decedent of the mad king. I think humility would benefit her. She doesn't have to give her throne up, but at least the gesture to do what is right for the people I think would do a lot better than this, you must kneel before me stick. 

 

[DanyDayne]

49 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

If she wants to be a true "good leader/ruler", she should be above any petty-ness. To me, that scene came off as her continuing to go down the path of a tyrant, not liking the northerners because of reasons? Them not kneeling? Whatever else.

Really?? Yes she should be above the pettiness, but they should ALL be above the pettiness as leaders in the realm. Where is the tyranny? I saw her tell Jon, the former King in the North who bent the knee, that she needed a little respect as Queen from his sister and Lady of Winterfell as is her due whether Sansa likes it or not.  Is that too much to ask for? A lot of people don't like Cersei but you better believe they know better than to approach her with anything less than respect. You think Robert Baratheon was ever mocked directly to his face despite people considering him a waste of space? The same can be applied to any monarch for that matter. So why is Dany a tyrant for, as Jon aptly put it, being a Southern girl in Northern territory? She's already at a disadvantage without standing meekly by and letting them throw shade at her. How quickly we forget the likes of Joffrey and Ramsey. They were true tyrants. Dany is a long way from being like that. As much as some people don't like her character, the amount of reaching is just weird. Anyway this is only the first ep. I'm sure they will get over this and come to some sort of truce.