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dany and sansa


starklover

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

It's safe to assume that they brought some sort of provisions with them, 

Off the top of my head. The average horse needs about what 20lbs of feed per day. So that works out to what about 1000 tons of feed per day for the horses, assuming one horse per man. And the average soldier probably needs about 2lbs of food per day, so that works out to about 100 Tons of food per day, if were assuming 100K soldiers or whatever. So, I'd certainly hope so.

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1 minute ago, D-Shiznit said:

Sansa has never really gotten over her dreams of being Queen, no matter how many times it has blown up in her face. Even now there is a part of her that is more concerned about ruling the North, than actually saving it from imminent extinction.

I'll agree with this. I think she has done a great job ruling as Lady of Winterfell, she does seem more concern about her having power. Her statement about the food is a valid point but the timing and delivery of it was out of place. It came across as petty. Dany did just bring an army north to help save them all.

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10 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Bringing food for the journey is really the only answer I can think of, can't hunt or fish along the way for 110k people and 2 dragons.

Establishing a fairly well thought out and planned supply chain would be the only answer for an army that size. Realistically that is what Jon and Dany would have done. But, the show needed its fake drama quota.

 

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11 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Sansa has never really gotten over her dreams of being Queen, no matter how many times it has blown up in her face. Even now there is a part of her that is more concerned about ruling the North, than actually saving it from imminent extinction.

"And if Jon doesn't come back, you need their support, so you can work together to give you what you really want. 
[...]
You're thinking it right now. You don't want to be, but the thought just won't go away."

This wasn't just Arya being facetious or instigating towards Sansa. This was before they resolved their conflict in S7 and when Arya was genuinely looking for any potential betrayal from Sansas part. During late S7, a part of Sansa (probably the "evil" part, but still) wanted to rule the north and get rid of Jon.
It's the same part of her that's being to focused on hierarchy and titles in S8E1, and who is petty and openly dislikes Daenerys. 
Give Sansa a taste of power and she becomes infatuated with it, just like everyone else on this show (except maybe Jon.)

Guess we'll see very soon how it all pans out. 
 

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4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

"And if Jon doesn't come back, you need their support, so you can work together to give you what you really want. 
[...]
You're thinking it right now. You don't want to be, but the thought just won't go away."

This wasn't just Arya being facetious or instigating towards Sansa. This was before they settled their arguments and when Arya was genuinely looking for any potential betrayal from Sansas part. During the late S7, a part of Sansa (probably the "evil" part, but still) wanted to rule the north. 
It's the same part of her that's being to focused on hierarchy and titles in S8E1, and who openly dislikes Daenerys. 

Guess we'll see very soon how it all pans out. 
 

Yup, not to mention she deliberately kept the Knights of the Vale a secret from Jon and his army so she could claim all the credit when they came in to save the day at the last second. How many Northmen/Freefolk would have still been alive if she had told Jon, and they had done a joint attack? There is a lot of Cersei in Sansa.

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2 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup, not to mention she deliberately kept the Knights of the Vale a secret from Jon and his army so she could claim all the credit when they came in to save the day at the last second. How many Northmen/Freefolk would have still been alive if she had told Jon, and they had done a joint attack? There is a lot of Cersei in Sansa.

… and lets not forget that she just said screw Rickon. Just let him die and not even try to fight for him.

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1 minute ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup, not to mention she deliberately kept the Knights of the Vale a secret from Jon and his army so she could claim all the credit when they came in to save the day at the last second. How many Northmen/Freefolk would have still been alive if she had told Jon, and they had done a joint attack? There is a lot of Cersei in Sansa.

I think that was a case of D&D trying to pull off one thing, and it coming off like something else.

I think they were trying to make Sandra (I won't call her by her  book name) look slick. And in their minds that was slick.

But, in reality, it was dumb. Anybody that has slight interest in military history knows that joining two allied forces on a battlefield at the required point in time is a difficult operation to pull off, and is fraught with risk and foul ups. And don't even get me started on the idea of Sandra tromping around the North at zero dark thirty looking for the Vale Army.

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Yeah, the whole "What do dragons eat anyway" and the way the question was delivered could've been something straight out of Cersei's "script".
Sansa/Sophie basically did her best Cersei-impression. 
 

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

Yeah, the whole "What do dragons eat anyway" and the way the question was delivered could've been something straight out of Cersei's "script".
Sansa/Sophie basically did her best Cersei-impression. 
 

Well that wasn't a very slick move by Sandra. But, then again, Dany's retort wasn't exactly helpful either.

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5 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I think that was a case of D&D trying to pull off one thing, and it coming off like something else.

I think they were trying to make Sandra (I won't call her by her  book name) look slick. And in their minds that was slick.

But, in reality, it was dumb. Anybody that has slight interest in military history knows that joining two allied forces on a battlefield at the required point in time is a difficult operation to pull off, and is fraught with risk and foul ups. And don't even get me started on the idea of Sandra tromping around the North at zero dark thirty looking for the Vale Army.

Well this is what Sophie said about Sansa hiding the Knights of the Vale:

At San Diego Comic-Con, the actress who plays her, Sophie Turner, shared her thoughts on the matter.

"Sansa didn't tell Jon because she wanted all the credit and it was a more dramatic moment when they showed up.

"I'm not sure [Sansa] believes Jon is capable of running Winterfell and the North," Turner told fans at the panel. "I think she thinks he doesn't have the intellect, the knowledge, the experience that she has. And I concur."

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Just now, D-Shiznit said:

Well this is what Sophie said about Sansa hiding the Knights of the Vale:

At San Diego Comic-Con, the actress who plays her, Sophie Turner, shared her thoughts on the matter.

"Sansa didn't tell Jon because she wanted all the credit and it was a more dramatic moment when they showed up.

To be honest, I take everything that comes out of Ms. Turner's mouth with a grain of salt.

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28 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Sansa has never really gotten over her dreams of being Queen, no matter how many times it has blown up in her face. Even now there is a part of her that is more concerned about ruling the North, than actually saving it from imminent extinction.

Yup she is basically maergery at this point without the tact or skills to hide her true ambition

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1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

To be honest, I take everything that comes out of Ms. Turner's mouth with a grain of salt.

Well it jives with her character though, in S7 she tells Arya that she should be on her knees thanking her for single handedly saving Winterfell via the Knights of the Vale. She minimizes the contributions of Jon, even though a big bulk of their Army were Freefolk who only came for him, not to mention Wun Wun, who saved them from a long siege.

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15 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup, not to mention she deliberately kept the Knights of the Vale a secret from Jon and his army so she could claim all the credit when they came in to save the day at the last second. How many Northmen/Freefolk would have still been alive if she had told Jon, and they had done a joint attack? There is a lot of Cersei in Sansa.

Maybe Sansa did not know for certain that the Vale would aid them?

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Just now, D-Shiznit said:

Well it jives with her character though, in S7 she tells Arya that she should be on her knees thanking her for single handedly saving Winterfell via the Knights of the Vale. She minimizes the contributions of Jon, even though a big bulk of their Army were Freefolk who only came for him, not to mention Wun Wun, who saved them from a long siege.

It might jive with the character of Sandra. But, if Sandra thought that hiding relevant, vital, and pertinent information about the tactical situation from an army commander would get her "credit" then she was delusional. And yet, we are told she is the smartest person in the world.

So what in the hell is up with this? Hard to tell.

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2 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said:

Maybe Sansa did not know for certain that the Vale would aid them?

Even if she just suspected they were in the general area, she should have relayed that information to Jon, realistically speaking.

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Just now, OldGimletEye said:

It might jive with the character of Sandra. But, if Sandra thought that hiding relevant, vital, and pertinent information about the tactical situation from an army commander would get her "credit" then she was delusional. And yet, we are told she is the smartest person in the world.

So what in the hell is up with this? Hard to tell.

She's might just be stupid enough to think that it actually will. That's why she is unapologetic in pointing out to Arya that Jon had failed, and it was her Knights that saved not only Winterfell, but Jon and his army as well. Knowing full well that If she had told Jon, his army never would have been in the dire situation they were in.

That also probably plays a factor in why she hates Dany, if Dany's army saves the North from a threat as dangerous as the White Walkers, the North will not only see Dany as their savior, but will also be more welcoming of her as their queen, further diminishing Sansa's standing.

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1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

Well Bran was waiting for Jamie the whole day that Dany arrived, and Jamie's arrival is where we pick up in EP2. Tormund also shows up in EP2 and says they have until sunrise before the NK shows up, so we're talking what 24-48 hours? max 3 days between Dany/Jon arriving and Tormund's sunrise warning? Food should not be a problem for that short a time span, surviving the NK should be singular focus.

Except that this makes no sense, timeline wise. Dany arrived the same day Ned Umber left WF to get to last Hearth. Tormund's and Edd's groups make it to Last Hearth when Ned Umber is already dead. You don't travel in a day to Last Hearth, especially in winter. The travel to and from Last Hearth should encompass weeks, not days.

29 minutes ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

Sansa quite clearly wants to be Queen bee.. that's the short of it.

And Dany doesn't? LOL. Btw who has threatened whom over not having their boots licked? Pretty sure that was Dany who wasn't even subtle in her death threats. Or maybe we watched different episodes.

29 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Sansa has never really gotten over her dreams of being Queen, no matter how many times it has blown up in her face. Even now there is a part of her that is more concerned about ruling the North, than actually saving it from imminent extinction.

Do you even understand young Sansa's dreams of being Queen? It wasn't about power. It was about being a good wife, bearing children and taking care of the house hold and what not. How is that in any way related to things now?

And guess what. Titles in their society are there for a reason. Jesus Christ, Jon himself said last Season that the North won't accept a southern ruler. The Lords already were rumbling about Jon's absence and non-communication but Sansa was keeping them together and the Vale Lords on board after LF death's. Jon is going on and on about a unified stand, well guess what genius, you bending the knee shot that all to hell. And he KNEW it, he said they won't accept her before any knee bending took place. So why bend the knee then, especially if it was not a requirement of Dany's help and knowing it will not go over well in the North? I wish people would stop looking at this as Dany vs Sansa because the real idiot is actually Jon, D&D just as usual throw the women under the bus for this emo, boring snowflake. He goes on and on about unification but doesn't seem to understand in the slightest what society they live in, that certain things do matter (like titles/ranks), especially in a situation like the current one where ranks and delegation is the only way to ensure a unified stand.

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1 minute ago, Mystical said:

Except that this makes no sense, timeline wise. Dany arrived the same day Ned Umber left WF to get to last Hearth. Tormund's and Edd's groups make it to Last Hearth when Ned Umber is already dead. You don't travel in a day to Last Hearth, especially in winter. The travel to and from Last Hearth should encompass weeks, not days.

And Dany doesn't? LOL. Btw who has threatened whom over not having their boots licked? Pretty sure that was Dany who wasn't even subtle in her death threats. Or maybe we watched different episodes.

Do you even understand young Sansa's dreams of being Queen? It wasn't about power. It was about being a good wife, bearing children and taking care of the house hold and what not. How is that in any way related to things now?

And guess what. Titles in their society are there for a reason. Jesus Christ, Jon himself said last Season that the North won't accept a southern ruler. The Lords already were rumbling about Jon's absence and non-communication but Sansa was keeping them together and the Vale Lords on board after LF death's. Jon is going on and on about a unified stand, well guess what genius, you bending the knee shot that all to hell. And he KNEW it, he said they won't accept her before any knee bending took place. So why bend the knee then, especially if it was not a requirement of Dany's help and knowing it will not go over well in the North? I wish people would stop looking at this as Dany vs Sansa because the real idiot is actually Jon, D&D just as usual throw the women under the bus for this emo, boring snowflake. He goes on and on about unification but doesn't seem to understand in the slightest what society they live in, that certain things do matter (like titles/ranks), especially in a situation like the current one where ranks and delegation is the only way to ensure a unified stand.

Danny doesn't want to.. she is amongst her people sansa was second fiddle to Jon and now she is third fiddle with the new power couple

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1 minute ago, D-Shiznit said:

She's might just be stupid enough to think that it actually will. That's why she is unapologetic in pointing out to Arya that Jon had failed, and it was her Knights that saved not only Winterfell, but Jon and his army as well. Knowing full well that If she had told Jon, his army never would have been in the dire situation they were in.

In order for that little scheme to work, everyone would have be a moron. They would have to be so moronic as not to comprehend the danger that Sandra's stunt put Jon's Army in. In order for Sandra to think it would work, she would have to assume that everyone was that big of an idiot. Now realistically what she did was dumb. But, I have my doubts that D&D meant to us to see it as a very dumb stunt. And even if they didn't one wonders how such a person goes from doing something very stupid like that to be the smartest person in the world.

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That also probably plays a factor in why she hates Dany, if Dany's army saves the North from a threat as dangerous as the White Walkers, the North will not only see Dany as their savior, but will also be more welcoming of her as their queen, further diminishing Sansa's standing

Might make more sense if Sansa were actually queen in the North. But she isn't.

Also, is it realistic for there to be a degree of mistrust between the Starks and Targyarens, at least for a short while? I think so. Ned had to go to a lot of trouble to get rid of that knucklehead Aerys.

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