Episode 2 preview

[Pandean]

32 minutes ago, Nami said:

wasn't she aware of her father's deeds and basically understood that was the reason Jon was against her in the beginning?

I mean yeah but the line is still shiver-worthy. And Dany's not exactly the forgiving type. 

[Pandean]

3 hours ago, Denam_Pavel said:

When Ned told his daughter that a ship was going to take them away from King's Landing in secret, Sansa went straight to the Queen with the information. Not Joffrey, Cersei. This is after she personally witnessed Cersei ordering Lady's death out of sheer spite. Smartest person Arya has met in action right there.

Wait hold up. Sansa was a child who was raised naive and sheltered and told by her mother and her Septa that her duty was to obey her husband, get married, and have babies. She believed in songs being true and fairy tales and all that shit.

She definitely doesn't believe that any more. 

She was a dumb, sheltered, spoiled kid. So, in many ways, was Arya, Bran, etc. That's normal. That's natural.

But she's grown considerably since then. Actions she did when she was a dumb naive little kid doesn't mean she's not smart now and they don't discredit her.

Like shit when I was a kid Sansa's age in the first season I had pants with all the Twilight characters names written on them that I'd wear everywhere, including church, was part of this emo cliche that called itself a murder and walked in a v formation, spoke in random Japanese due to anime, and hissed at sunlight.

Thank fucking GOD no one is still holding the dumb shit I did as a kid against me. 

[Nami]

Rant ahead:

 

It's pity how the whole R+L=J was handled. The reveal to the audience was nice. However, Sam telling Jon was totally underwhelming and just...really bad dialogue. "You're the king. You've always been". Maybe because of how badly explained was the Rhaegar and Lyanna affair. I still don't understand how he annulled his perfectly legal consumated marriage to Elia Martell, made his two kids bastards (let that sink in that little TRUEAegon and Rhaenys were bastards when they were murdered), and then married Lyanna thus Jon is a prince. The writers pulled new rules out of their ass and added to GRRM's universe.

It's still hard for me to buy that Jon is not a bastard in this show. Yes we've discussed how he likely isn't a bastard in the books, but I'm pretty sure GRRM will explain the whole thing way better than whatever that was in this show.

[divica]

38 minutes ago, Nami said:

Rant ahead:

 

It's pity how the whole R+L=J was handled. The reveal to the audience was nice. However, Sam telling Jon was totally underwhelming and just...really bad dialogue. "You're the king. You've always been". Maybe because of how badly explained was the Rhaegar and Lyanna affair. I still don't understand how he annulled his perfectly legal consumated marriage to Elia Martell, made his two kids bastards (let that sink in that little TRUEAegon and Rhaenys were bastards when they were murdered), and then married Lyanna thus Jon is a prince. The writers pulled new rules out of their ass and added to GRRM's universe.

It's still hard for me to buy that Jon is not a bastard in this show. Yes we've discussed how he likely isn't a bastard in the books, but I'm pretty sure GRRM will explain the whole thing way better than whatever that was in this show.

I don t think a legal explanation about why jon is true born is that interesting or important for the show. And given the stupidity of naming jon Aegon I don t think they care about his murdered siblings. 

However a better explanation about what really happened is needed for both jon and us… I mean, why did people think lyanna was abducted? why didn t rhaegar and lyanna tell the truth? And those litle things every book reader has wanted to know for years! Maybe we will get flashbacks of rhaegar and lyanna's romance through bran next ep while he tells the story to jon (and danny?)...

[Zorral]

6 hours ago, RhaegoTheUnborn said:

 Yup, when Sansa says when I was kid, my brother used to tell me stories, then it quickly pans to Bran's weirdass just staring in his wheelchair. Lol. Even the three eyed crow of old didnt seem as weird as Bran does in that role.

Bran's Stephen Hawking.

 

[Mystical]

5 hours ago, Denam_Pavel said:

When Ned told his daughter that a ship was going to take them away from King's Landing in secret, Sansa went straight to the Queen with the information. Not Joffrey, Cersei. This is after she personally witnessed Cersei ordering Lady's death out of sheer spite. Smartest person Arya has met in action right there.

One big problem with your point. THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE SHOW. Unless you have a different version of S1 than I do, this only happened in the books. So this makes no sense.

There was no scene in S1 where Sansa trusted Cersei with anything and after her father's head was cut off she was done with all the Lannisters.

I think the Sansa/Dany thing is a misdirect and out of context precisely because it makes no sense. Sansa never trusted Cersei and even if she did when she was like 12...how would Dany even know? No one was there but Sansa. Tyrion didn't come to KL until S2 so he couldn't have said anything to that matter. Unless this show is completely disregarding it's own canon again (like in S7), it simply makes no sense.

[Nami]

1 hour ago, divica said:

I don t think a legal explanation about why jon is true born is that interesting or important for the show. And given the stupidity of naming jon Aegon I don t think they care about his murdered siblings. 

However a better explanation about what really happened is needed for both jon and us… I mean, why did people think lyanna was abducted? why didn t rhaegar and lyanna tell the truth? And those litle things every book reader has wanted to know for years! Maybe we will get flashbacks of rhaegar and lyanna's romance through bran next ep while he tells the story to jon (and danny?)...

For sure a flashback is needed at this point. I think one episode dedicated to this is required to make things clear. Dany needs to be convinced otherwise she won't (or shouldn't anyway) believe right away with no proof.

[divica]

33 minutes ago, Mystical said:

One big problem with your point. THAT NEVER HAPPENED IN THE SHOW. Unless you have a different version of S1 than I do, this only happened in the books. So this makes no sense.

There was no scene in S1 where Sansa trusted Cersei with anything and after her father's head was cut off she was done with all the Lannisters.

I think the Sansa/Dany thing is a misdirect and out of context precisely because it makes no sense. Sansa never trusted Cersei and even if she did when she was like 12...how would Dany even know? No one was there but Sansa. Tyrion didn't come to KL until S2 so he couldn't have said anything to that matter. Unless this show is completely disregarding it's own canon again (like in S7), it simply makes no sense.

The talk isn t just danny saying " I shouldn t have trusted cersei" and then sansa saying " no, you shouldn t"?

It isn t a very special conversation...

[anjulibai]

I thought the dialogue was "he shouldn't have trusted Cersei", which I figured referred to Tyrion; Sansa saying you shouldn't have either is a clapback at Dany, saying you went along with what Tyrion advised. 

[maverick_nc1]

I'm thinking that when Cersei's betrayal is discovered (through Jamie), this gives Arya reason to leave Winterfell and go back to KL to finish her list - after all she's an assassin, not a warrior.  The weapon she wanted made is interesting...

Perhaps the Hound goes with her, or follows her and this leads to Cleganebowl. Was Arya definitely running away from someone in the Winterfell crypts in the trailer or could it have been in the tunnels below KL?

 

(Also, everyone of any importance appeared to be at Jamies trial....except Jon, or did I miss something? Is he off brooding somewhere?)

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, Pandean said:

I mean yeah but the line is still shiver-worthy. And Dany's not exactly the forgiving type. 

Cold severity is more her style.  Even if she were to conclude that Jaime was justified in killing her father, there would still be the fact that she and her brother were fugitives for years as a result of his deed. 

That said, the weight of opinion may well be in favour of allowing Jaime to fight the army of the dead.

[LordImp]

With Jaime playing a big role this episode I think/hope the title is Kingslayer. 

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

There are only 3 people alive who know what happened when Jaime killed the mad king: Brienne, Bran and Jaime himself.  (As far as we know)

Brienne only has the story 2nd hand from Jaime, so is only likely to defend him if he doesn’t defend himself.  This is possible as Jaime has previous form of just letting people call him kingslayer without justifying his actions (although he did have that line with Ned in S1 where he says it felt like justice).  That may have been ‘old Jaime’ just being arrogant though and not feeling the need to explain himself to anyone.  New Jaime wants to be good and for others to see him as good.

Bran is probably Jaime’s best hope, as long as Dany and other key people accept that Bran’s gift is real.  I think they will.  They’ve accepted dragons, white walkers and an army of the dead, so why not.  

Does anyone other than Bran (and Cersei) know that Jaime pushed him off the tower?  If not, that bit of info might just stay between them.  Or Bran might use it to show that people’s past crimes don’t really matter now if you’re going to defend the realm against the army of the dead (we don’t have time for this!) ... a bit like the Night’s Watch rules, once you pledge yourself, all past crimes are forgotten.  Also worth noting that Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, The Hound and Tormond are all murderers too! (Granted, people don’t know about Arya’s kills).  Same absolution may also apply to Theon when he turns up.  

Also, if Dany accepts Bran’s truth about Jaime, she’ll also have to accept his story about Jon’s true heritage.  Interesting times ahead. 

[Mystical]

3 hours ago, anjulibai said:

I thought the dialogue was "he shouldn't have trusted Cersei", which I figured referred to Tyrion; Sansa saying you shouldn't have either is a clapback at Dany, saying you went along with what Tyrion advised. 

I thought Dany said 'you never should have trusted Cersei' followed by Sansa saying 'you never should have either'.I've watched the trailer on youtube again and the CC confirms it. Which is why I think the dialogue is misdirect. Otherwise it makes no freaking sense as I have explained in my previous post.

[Mystical]

6 minutes ago, Lady Fishbiscuit said:

Also worth noting that Tyrion, Arya, Sansa, The Hound and Tormond are all murderers too! (Granted, people don’t know about Arya’s kills).

LOL everyone on GoT is a murderer or second degree murderer. With the exception of the really nice characters like Gilly, Sam, Missandei and Davos (maybe Brienne?), everyone else has murdered.

[Lady Fishbiscuit]

37 minutes ago, Mystical said:

LOL everyone on GoT is a murderer or second degree murderer. With the exception of the really nice characters like Gilly, Sam, Missandei and Davos (maybe Brienne?), everyone else has murdered.

You’re not wrong there! 

Was trying to make the distinction between sanctioned killings (defence, battles, execution etc.) and murders that people could be tried / executed for.  I know it’s a very grey area depending on who’s in charge at any given time! 

[Mystical]

Why is Dany still so bad with PR? Announcing in front of everyone how you fantasized about torturing people is not going to improve your image. Especially when the crime committed was against the MAD KING who was a tyrant and murdered Lords from the North, Vale etc. and was this close to blowing up half a million people. Good grief girl, think before you speak.

[Every Last Chicken]

4 hours ago, Mystical said:

I thought Dany said 'you never should have trusted Cersei' followed by Sansa saying 'you never should have either'.I've watched the trailer on youtube again and the CC confirms it. Which is why I think the dialogue is misdirect. Otherwise it makes no freaking sense as I have explained in my previous post.

I think it was misdirect in the trailer as well. My bet is on what the poster you quoted said - Daeneryrs telling Tyrion "you shouldn't have trusted Cersei" and Sansa telling it back to Daenerys in kind or possibly her telling it to Jon since she specificially warned him about it last season. 

[McAssey]

22 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Paper doesnt prove anything. It could have been forged. If anything it proves the two were married. It says nothing about a child. Only people who can prove Jon is the son of Lyanna are dead or don't show up to Kingdom meetings. 

 

But if Bran would tell Jon to summon Howland Reed, then Howland could testify about Jon's true parentage.

Surely they made it a point to let us know that Howland Reed was with Ned at the Tower of Joy for a reason?

[Mystical]

1 hour ago, Every Last Chicken said:

I think it was misdirect in the trailer as well. My bet is on what the poster you quoted said - Daeneryrs telling Tyrion "you shouldn't have trusted Cersei" and Sansa telling it back to Daenerys in kind or possibly her telling it to Jon since she specificially warned him about it last season. 

The only problem I have with this scenario is that Dany is looking up at someone. She doesn't look to be sitting down and even then she and Tyrion would be the same height.