Episode 2 preview

[DanyDayne]

4 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I thought it was a diary entry and not a marriage certificate. 

I have no idea what it is tbh. It was something Gilly found in the citadel in one of those official looking books. 

[divica]

3 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

So if my best friend tells me the sky is green I’ll automatically believe it because my best friend said so? 

No we don’t. But we kinda have a good reason to suspect. 

Therefore jon's first reaction

are you saying that ned stark, the most honorable men in westeros, lied to me my entire life?

This isn t the line of someone that imediatly believes what he is being told...

[King Jon Snow Stark]

Just now, DanyDayne said:

I have no idea what it is tbh. It was something Gilly found in the citadel in one of those official looking books. 

It was diary of High Septon. No official documents were filed. Unless Sam and Gilly found those too. There is no reason to believe Sam at least from Dany's point of view. 

[DanyDayne]

2 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

It was diary of High Septon. No official documents were filed. Unless Sam and Gilly found those too. There is no reason to believe Sam at least from Dany's point of view. 

I can see how it would look bad on Sam's part after the tantrum he threw at Dany in the first ep. So yeah Bran definitely gonna have to step in. If they believe him about everything else they surely should believe him about this. 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

Bran should step up but he no longer cares about who has what title. He only cares about defeating the Night King. He seem like he just wanted to tell Jon he was not a Snow. Sam looks like he wants to overthrow Dany. 

I’m not sure how know Jon was always meant to be a king helps him one bit. 

27 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

I can see how it would look bad on Sam's part after the tantrum he threw at Dany in the first ep. So yeah Bran definitely gonna have to step in. If they believe him about everything else they surely should believe him about this. 

 

[divica]

I just remembered one thing. If jon tells danny he is a targ then she would need to protect him because if she can t have children then jon and his line are the future of their house...

[Pandean]

2 hours ago, DanyDayne said:

Yeah after the first episode where she basically scoffed at Tyrion for believing Cersei I kept wondering when did Sansa ever trust Cersei? I only remember her doing that in the first two seasons when she was "in love" with Joffrey and Cersei was like a surrogate mother to her in King's Landing. It would be strange but I guess kinda good if Sansa was telling Dany about her past. Means they're at least trying to be civil. 

I'm wondering if maybe I misheard the preview and Dany wasn't talking to Sansa about her trusting Cersei specifically because it's like super clear that she doesn't.

Or it could be something else.

[Pandean]

1 hour ago, DanyDayne said:

I can see how it would look bad on Sam's part after the tantrum he threw at Dany in the first ep. So yeah Bran definitely gonna have to step in. If they believe him about everything else they surely should believe him about this. 

Wait, tantrum? A dude being visibly upset because he finds out his father and brother were burned to death by dragonfire and excusing himself is a tantrum?

Or did I miss something?

Like yeah Randyl was a dick but he was still his father and I think Sam's supposed to have a good relationship with Dickon. So. Like, it's a totally normal reaction to be upset. Especially when usually in Westeros those two would've been taken as PoW or hostages since that's more common among highborn war prisoners versus killing.

[Pandean]

In other news did anyone else get shivers when Dany talked about how Viserys told her stories of the man who killed their father and they would talk about all the things they would do to that man...like yikes look out Jaime.

[Jak Scaletongue]

2 hours ago, Denam_Pavel said:

When Ned told his daughter that a ship was going to take them away from King's Landing in secret, Sansa went straight to the Queen with the information. Not Joffrey, Cersei. This is after she personally witnessed Cersei ordering Lady's death out of sheer spite. Smartest person Arya has met in action right there.

Given that learning from one’s mistakes is a rare quality in most grown adults (in RL and Westeros), the fact that Sansa HAS learned from her own mistakes (in this case, trusting Cersei) IS a pretty good indicator that she IS pretty smart. At least, smarter than her grown ass husband! Who damn well should know better than to trust Cersei as far as he could throw her.  

 

Hell, in the books she’s 11 - no one’s smart at 11 (and no one thinks their parents know what the fuck they’re talking about at 11 either). In the show she’s a little older, but still 13ish (which isn’t exactly a brilliant age either...even in a medieval setting). Kids who think their parents don’t understand aren’t a modern phenomena. 

[darmody]

9 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Doubt that would wash on Northerners after the Lannisters had their Lord and then king murdered. But I agree she'll spare him.

But Joffrey was poisoned, and Tyrion killed Tywin. They were the Lannisters responsible, except insofar as Jaime was responsible for the entire war by sleeping with his sister.

Anyway, Jaime was a prisoner at the time of both Ned's execution and Cat/Robb's murders. Difficult to hold him responsible. 

[darmody]

8 hours ago, tallTale said:

I would assume Brienne shows up to vouch for Jaimie. 

They have to be saving their reunion for a reason, unless it's merely to avoid traffic jam. 

She can speak to Jaime keeping his promise to Cat, as well as to hearing his plausible story about the Mad King ordering everyone burned. But of course no one but Jaime knows for sure why he stabbed the king in the back at that precise moment. 

[Nami]

1 hour ago, Pandean said:

In other news did anyone else get shivers when Dany talked about how Viserys told her stories of the man who killed their father and they would talk about all the things they would do to that man...like yikes look out Jaime.

wasn't she aware of her father's deeds and basically understood that was the reason Jon was against her in the beginning?

[darmody]

3 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

I'm 100% sure that nobody is going remember or mention that Rhaegar allegedly kidnapped and raped Lyanna so Jon can quietly and tracelessly come to terms with his uncontroversial heritage like he came to terms with his uncontroversial resurrection and neither of those things will ever be mentioned again, but who gives a shit about human intra and interpersonal conflicts when you can have screeching zombie wall decor in the shape of crab dishes. 

Well, the audience was shown that Lyanna was a willing part via Bran t.v., so we're probably supposed to assume Jon figured it out, too. Or Bran will tell him offscreen. 

I'm wondering whether Jon will identify with his Mad Grandfather like Danny at least pretends to. Which on a sentimental level could only happen through realizing Maester Aemon was his great-great-uncle, and that the Mad King was once lovable little "Egg."

[darmody]

2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

Well, why did Jon have to say that? because thats what D&D thought fans would say? Because every character is a one-word label? Ned the Honorable. Jon the Hero. Sansa the Clever (poor Lann). Arya the Badass. Stannis the Grammarnazi. Euron the Hypersexual. 

He didn’t ask for proof, he didn’t ask about the rape story, he didn’t say Sam was wrong, he didn’t say it was stupid, he didn’t say it was impossible, he didn’t ask what bran knew about that. Nufffffffin at all. 

Why do you imagine his first thought would be about the mother-aunt he never never knew? He knew Ned as his father. That was the man who was eventually going to tell him about his mother. Which Jon never considered would turn out to be his aunt.  

In order for what Sam was saying to be true, Ned had to be lying to him his whole life. The man who lost his head for being too honest. 

Yes, it would be the natural thing to ask about his "father" before inquiring whether his real father abducted his real mother. 

[RhaenysBee]

3 minutes ago, darmody said:

Well, the audience was shown that Lyanna was a willing part via Bran t.v., so we're probably supposed to assume Jon figured it out, too. Or Bran will tell him offscreen. 

I'm wondering whether Jon will identify with his Mad Grandfather like Danny at least pretends to. Which on a sentimental level could only happen through realizing Maester Aemon was his great-great-uncle, and that the Mad King was once lovable little "Egg."

Aww the magic of off-screen plot is stronger than Melisandre’s ruby.  

Well that’s kinda awkward for Jon because his mad grandfather murdered his other grandfather. But I’m certain nobody is going to care to remember this. At least on screen. And I’d also be surprised if Jon mentioned Maester Aemon. On screen. Because I’m sure he acts like an intelligent, normal human being with no memory issues off screen. 

Errrrm, I haven’t read the dunk and egg story but I’m pretty sure Egg was Aegon V and the Mad King was his son, Aerys II. 

 

 

[darmody]

2 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

So if my best friend tells me the sky is green I’ll automatically believe it because my best friend said so? 

No we don’t. But we kinda have a good reason to suspect. 

Rhaegar and Lyanna having a legitimate child/Ned concealing it and the sky being green aren't the same. We always knew there was something fishy about Ned's story. Or lackthereof. 

[RhaenysBee]

1 minute ago, darmody said:

Why do you imagine his first thought would be about the mother-aunt he never never knew? He knew Ned as his father. That was the man who was eventually going to tell him about his mother. Which Jon never considered would turn out to be his aunt.  

In order for what Sam was saying to be true, Ned had to be lying to him his whole life. The man who lost his head for being too honest. 

Yes, it would be the natural thing to ask about his "father" before inquiring whether his real father abducted his real mother. 

I don’t. I expect it to be the third or fourth. 

And I do agree with you. It is natural for him to ask about Ned. It was just unnatural for him to accept this fact so quickly / or abandon it after one question. 

I would expect him to ask about his mother because, like you said, Jon was rather obsessed with the identity of his mother, even in the show, he pushed Ned in season one to tell him about her. 

 

As for the sky’s being green, yes of course it’s not the same, I was just trying to make a point. And for the audience, sure. For Jon, I sincerely doubt he ever questioned that Ned was his father. 

[darmody]

4 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

 

Errrrm, I haven’t read the dunk and egg story but I’m pretty sure Egg was Aegon V and the Mad King was his son, Aerys II. 

 

 

Now that you mention it, yes, egg would be short for Aegon. 

Aside from Danny, Aemon is the only family from the Targaryan side Jon ever knew. And there was some affection there, so I wish they would mention him. But it's no biggie. 

[darmody]

2 minutes ago, RhaenysBee said:

I don’t. I expect it to be the third or fourth.

While we're quibbling about numbers, in what place would you expect Jon to suddenly blurt out, "Old gods! I just boned my auntie!"

Because that would occur to me before the question of whether I was the product of rape.