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House Glover

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Just now, Kajjo said:

Which makes them not loyal but fearful subordinates.

I'm sure House Lannister (Tywin and his daughter) are fully paid-up members of the Machiavelli fan club. Fear is more useful than love.

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Which in fact is an example of disloyalty, just bitterly punished.

Tyrells and Martells broke fealty to Lannister as well. 

They were never Lannister bannermen.  They are lords in their own right, subservient only to the king.  ALL of the Stark bannermen in the show except for baby Mormont have betrayed them.

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1 hour ago, DisneyDoc2425 said:

I believe I read somewhere on the internet that actor Tim Mcinnerny who played Lord Glover was not involved in filming for season 8. Can anyone confirm this or not. If this is true then anything that happens to House Glover in season 8 will occur predominantly, if not totally, off-screen. I agree that it is most likely that the House will be totally destroyed by the NK. 

Yes, I also read somewhere that it is confirmed that he will not appear in Season 8.

I honestly am not surprised by this turn of the event. To think that Sansa was worried that Jon may lose soldiers because of that letter to Robb now sounds hilarious in comparison to what Jon managed to do. Simply, this is wildling v Night Watch all over again. He does a good thing, but he simply fails to acknowledge history and emotions people have. Targaryens and Lannisters killed a lot of Northerners and we have been told that they remember. 

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As we heard that this house or that house was not supporting Jon and returning home,  I considered that a cast-cutting maneuver.  There will be far less to hear about Umber, Karstark, Glover, or Maderleys - whole lot of 'King in the North' now gone.

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"The north remembers - but often doesn't give two shits."

Northern houses are more unreliable than Dothraki. Their "loyalty" has become a meme at this point.

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Since the discussion morphed a bit, i will add this: Northern Houses were just as loyal as Lannister House, for the same reason: fear.

That all changed with Ned Stark, who is  not your typical Stark.

 

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18 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Well, loyalty is bi-directional. They feel the King in the North abondended them. They would probably still follow the Starks, but they won't follow Targaryens. I can sympathize with the logic of loyalty here.

Compared to non-Northern houses, the North actually was pretty local -- but realistically, there will be always breakers of fealty. I like this realism. Loyalty is formally about Houses, but if things get rough, it's a lot about individual persons and beliefs, fears, cowardice, greed and whatever.

shouldn't they wait until the WW's are defeated and then break Fealty? It makes no sense.

It also didn't make any sense that the manderly's, glovers and Cerwyns were figuring out ways to divy up the Karstarks and Umbers lands and Castles when they took no part in the BotB. 

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4 hours ago, Error-504 said:

shouldn't they wait until the WW's are defeated and then break Fealty? It makes no sense.

Yes, it makes not so much sense. They underestimate the danger from the WW and could be easily meet the same fate as House Umber. On the other hand, maybe they survive, because the WW army walks directly to Winterfell. However, I don't see a problem plot-wise, it's just only a dumb reaction of a House being annoyed by Jon Snow surrendering the crown.

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Well I think the main reason why the Glovers refused, is cause the writers needed to show conflict between the North and Jon, between Sansa and Jon, and ultimately between Daenerys and Jon. They probably need Dany to be somewhere else when the Night King attacks Winterfell.

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In regards to the Northern houses being more loyal, here is what Sansa had to say in 7x06:

"Yes, they turned their backs on Jon when it was time to retake Winterfell, then they named him their king, and now they're ready to turn their backs on him again. How far would you trust men like that?

They're all bloody wind vanes."

Even characters like Sansa have come to realize this whole notion of superior Northern loyalty is a farce.

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13 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

In regards to the Northern houses being more loyal, here is what Sansa had to say in 7x06:

"Yes, they turned their backs on Jon when it was time to retake Winterfell, then they named him their king, and now they're ready to turn their backs on him again. How far would you trust men like that?

They're all bloody wind vanes."

Even characters like Sansa have come to realize this whole notion of superior Northern loyalty is a farce.

Well said.

Although, if I remember correctly, every time a northern lord has broken fealty with House Stark, it has been to follow another northern lord. So they are at least loyal to the North it seems. Also, isn't it said somewhere that the North is made up of many small houses. The ones mentioned are just the larger houses.

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2 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Well said.

Although, if I remember correctly, every time a northern lord has broken fealty with House Stark, it has been to follow another northern lord. So they are at least loyal to the North it seems. Also, isn't it said somewhere that the North is made up of many small houses. The ones mentioned are just the larger houses.

Well, House Bolton broke fealty with the Starks on behalf of a southern house.

House Manderly broke fealty and refused the call for no one but themselves.

House Glover did the same thing, twice.

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21 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Well, House Bolton broke fealty with the Starks on behalf of a southern house.

Yes, true, they plotted with a southern house, I didn't think about that. I guess I don't count them because it was so they could become the wardens of the North and didn't actually follow another house. And really, the Boltons were in a class all their own! IMO.

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37 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Yes, true, they plotted with a southern house, I didn't think about that. I guess I don't count them because it was so they could become the wardens of the North and didn't actually follow another house. And really, the Boltons were in a class all their own! IMO.

The Bolton's had always been House #2 in the North, behind the Starks for thousands of years. For thousands of years they'd been waiting for the opportunity, and took it.

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