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House Glover

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Gotta say the trope that Northern houses are more "loyal" has proven to be legit horse****. Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers, Glovers, Manderleys - Oathbrakers, all of them.

Edited by D-Shiznit

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8 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Gotta say the trope that Northern houses are more "loyal" has proven to be legit horse****. Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers, Glovers, Manderleys - Oathbrakers, all of them.

Well, loyalty is bi-directional. They feel the King in the North abondended them. They would probably still follow the Starks, but they won't follow Targaryens. I can sympathize with the logic of loyalty here.

Compared to non-Northern houses, the North actually was pretty local -- but realistically, there will be always breakers of fealty. I like this realism. Loyalty is formally about Houses, but if things get rough, it's a lot about individual persons and beliefs, fears, cowardice, greed and whatever.

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Well, loyalty is bi-directional. They feel the King in the North abondended them. They would probably still follow the Starks, but they won't follow Targaryens. I can sympathize with the logic of loyalty here.

Compared to non-Northern houses, the North actually was pretty local -- but realistically, there will be always breakers of fealty. I like this realism. Loyalty is formally about Houses, but if things get rough, it's a lot about individual persons and beliefs, fears, cowardice, greed and whatever.

Their disloyalty has nothing to do with the Targaryens. Every single one of the houses I mentioned showed their disloyalty before Dany even landed in Westeros.

Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers all fought against the Starks, while Umbers and Manderleys refused the call. Like I said, Oathbreakers.

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1 minute ago, D-Shiznit said:

Boltons, Karstarks, and Umbers all fought against the Starks

That's true. However, Lord Karstark was executed by Robb Stark and it is no wonder, the loyalty ends there. Umbers didn't accept Jon Snows decision bringing the Wildlings south of the wall and joined the Boltons. This is disloyalty, but as I said: If things get rough, personal security is takes sometime priority over loyalty.

But yes, overall there are Houses that are not as loyal as the North would like to see itself.

 

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I believe I read somewhere on the internet that actor Tim Mcinnerny who played Lord Glover was not involved in filming for season 8. Can anyone confirm this or not. If this is true then anything that happens to House Glover in season 8 will occur predominantly, if not totally, off-screen. I agree that it is most likely that the House will be totally destroyed by the NK. 

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Not unrealistic though. Clan loyalty, like family loyalty, is always stronger in theory than in practice. I live in a society (see my username) where I experience it all the time.

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26 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Clan loyalty, like family loyalty, is always stronger in theory than in practice.

Absolutely, yes.

Loyalty is a strange concept anyway. Sounds so good, but is fairly questionable.

26 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

I live in a society (see my username) where I experience it all the time.

I see. However, it is not different in Western societies. 

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1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

Gotta say the trope that Northern houses are more "loyal" has proven to be legit horse****. Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers, Glovers, Manderleys - Oathbrakers, all of them.

Exactly this. What house hasn't broken their oaths at this point?

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54 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Not unrealistic though. Clan loyalty, like family loyalty, is always stronger in theory than in practice. I live in a society (see my username) where I experience it all the time.

Not saying it wouldn't happen. But the show tries to sell this farce that the northerners are so loyal and only loyal to other northerners. Yet, almost all the houses have betrayed their leaders who have happened to all be northerners.

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1 minute ago, SuperMario said:

Not saying it wouldn't happen. But the show tries to sell this farce that the northerners are so loyal and only loyal to other northerners. Yet, almost all the houses have betrayed their leaders who have happened to all be northerners.

Sure, just when people need to unite more than ever, they argue even more. Adds to the tension.

I happen to believe that the key theme of the whole story is an allegory about Climate Change. It is now more urgent than ever that we, the human race, wake up and make drastic changes before it's too late. And we're not - some president or other even argues the whole thing is a Chinese hoax, like Grumpkins.

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It's disappointing that the Lannister bannermen have been shown to be 100x more loyal than the Stark bannermen.  

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8 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

shown to be 100x more loyal

Where have you seen that?

There are a lot of Northern Houses that are loyal and some that aren't. I'd call that realistic.

What do we know about Lannister bannerman?

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Where have you seen that?

There are a lot of Northern Houses that are loyal and some that aren't. I'd call that realistic.

What do we know about Lannister bannerman?

In a word, 'Castermere'!

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Just now, Kajjo said:

Where have you seen that?

There are a lot of Northern Houses that are loyal and some that aren't. I'd call that realistic.

What do we know about Lannister bannerman?

We have never heard or seen of any Lannister bannermen abandoning the Lannisters, despite the many public crimes they have committed, Cersei still has the Lannister army that is still fighting for her.

Compared to the Starks, where every named Northern house except for the Mormonts have betrayed them, in some cases, with the Glovers, betrayed them twice.

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2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

We have never heard or seen of any Lannister bannermen abandoning the Lannisters, despite the many public crimes they have committed, Cersei still has the Lannister army that is still fighting for her.

Compared to the Starks, where every named Northern house except for the Mormonts have betrayed them, in some cases, with the Glovers, betrayed them twice.

I repeat, they all know the story of the Rains of Castermere. They know what happens when a House breaks its oath to House Lannister.

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3 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Castermere

Which in fact is an example of disloyalty, just bitterly punished.

Tyrells and Martells broke fealty to Lannister as well. 

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1 minute ago, House Cambodia said:

I repeat, they all know the story of the Rains of Castermere. They know what happens when a House breaks its oath to House Lannister.

Which makes them not loyal but fearful subordinates.

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Just now, Kajjo said:

Which in fact is an example of disloyalty, just bitterly punished.

Tyrells and Martells broke fealty to Lannister as well. 

They prove my point!

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