What smart things has Sansa done?

[Mighthearmeroar]

20 hours ago, Pandean said:

I always viewed the Northern Lords as having some kind of conclave type discussion. Similar to hiolding court but less one-sided. Which is why they are so outspoken and whatnot.

 

They did have before electing Jon King in the North, but it seemed to me very special occasion. Have we noted this at any other time?

[Pandean]

18 minutes ago, Mighthearmeroar said:

They did have before electing Jon King in the North, but it seemed to me very special occasion. Have we noted this at any other time?

I remember a similar situation during Robb Stark's reign as KitN, but that was seasons ago. In general I've felt that when they hold 'court' it's kind of different and more outspoken than say, when one holds court in King's Landing.

[Pandean]

1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

Good catch.
As someone who got bothered by the whole "Sansa is the smartest person"-quote, this is something I can actually buy from a story narrative.
It's not meant to be taken literally. 

 

 Yeah. I also think it's a response to Jon's dismissal of their sister. Obviously before everything happened Jon and Arya would talk smack about Sansa, considering they were both outsiders to her. Arya's response to Jon trying to make that connection again is to defend Sansa (in particularly her smarts, which was what was insulted) and it's basically a big "this is not how things are anymore" and it shows how much Arya has grown since the two were at each others throats.

 

It's kinda like Sansa saying Arya would have survived what she survived when we know that if the roles were switched Sansa would probably die on the road and Arya would not be controlled enough to survive kings landing.

It's a testament to how close these sisters are now. From being enemies as children to truly having a sisterly bond. That's what made me really like the scene. Not the lip service of Sansa being super smart (I think she's smart but she's only human and not like a genius genius or anything) but showing how the Stark sisters have become unified. Family.

[A Ghost of Someone]

3 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

It was the damn Imp who suggested the Wight Hunt & also got 3’5’s of Dany’s forces wiped out.  It most certainly is not him anymore. 

Well, it was ridiculous on the show for Dany to make him hand after failing in Mereen and it is even worse after all of last year that he still has it. 

 

 

[Smoke317]

1 hour ago, Pandean said:

 Yeah. I also think it's a response to Jon's dismissal of their sister. Obviously before everything happened Jon and Arya would talk smack about Sansa, considering they were both outsiders to her. Arya's response to Jon trying to make that connection again is to defend Sansa (in particularly her smarts, which was what was insulted) and it's basically a big "this is not how things are anymore" and it shows how much Arya has grown since the two were at each others throats.

 

It's kinda like Sansa saying Arya would have survived what she survived when we know that if the roles were switched Sansa would probably die on the road and Arya would not be controlled enough to survive kings landing.

It's a testament to how close these sisters are now. From being enemies as children to truly having a sisterly bond. That's what made me really like the scene. Not the lip service of Sansa being super smart (I think she's smart but she's only human and not like a genius genius or anything) but showing how the Stark sisters have become unified. Family.

I totally disagree. I think Arya definitely would have survived KL just like she survived Harrenhal.  She’s smart.  Quick thinking.  Patient and yet decisive: depending on what the situation called for.  Arya was just trying to make Sansa feel good about herself with that line of her not being able to survive what Sansa survived.  Even Sansa knew Arya could & would.  So in saying that Sansa was actually smart.

And hopefully Arya was just re-iterating to Jon how important it was to stick together and she actually didn’t believe Sansa was the smartest person she’s ever met.  That line just wreaks of Maisie & Sophie friendship fanfic.  Next thing you know Sansa will be devising the battleplan vs the Army of the Dead.  Why?   Because D&D want us to believe because they keep telling us that she’s the smartest & wisest person in Planetos.  Damn shame they keep telling us rather than showing us...

[Wildling Queen]

She outsmarted Peter Baelish, possibly the most intelligent political maneuverer in the show.

She won the Battle of the Bastards and retook the North for the Starks.

She's smart enough to know when Tyrion didn't that if Cersei's army was coming, they'd already be there.

I think Sansa is pretty smart.

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

Lady Sandra is a joke

Everyone has been trying to save her from season 1 but she always refuses and gets into worse situations again and again.

1- The Hound offers to take her home after battle of blackwater - she refuses and gets humiliated by joffrey and married to Tyrion

2 - Gets used by Petyrfinger against her own aunt who liked her. Her aunt gets killed because of her inaction and she even protects Petyrfinger, she was completely manipulated to petyrs will.

3 - Brienne offers her service has bodyguard and take her to Jon - Sandra refuses and gets sold to the Boltons and raped by Ramsay

There are many other examples. She got Lady killed and Arya separated from Nymeria and if she had run from Kingslanding like Arya, Robb would have attacked Casterly Rock after Ned died.

 

[House Cambodia]

59 minutes ago, Wildling Queen said:

She outsmarted Peter Baelish, possibly the most intelligent political maneuverer in the show.

She won the Battle of the Bastards and retook the North for the Starks.

She's smart enough to know when Tyrion didn't that if Cersei's army was coming, they'd already be there.

I think Sansa is pretty smart.

Fully agree. I think Ser YA is overlooking the role of character development. To be fair, I think the writing could be a lot better, and maybe the actress is not the best.

[Cas Stark]

Ranting about how they needed more men and shouldn't attack Ramsay while having the Vale army in her back pocket, but never mentioning this as a possibility, then writing in secret to ask for the Vale army, and still never telling anyone she had done so, isn't smart, it is stupid and borderline treasonous.  If they had known there was even a chance of the Vale army that would have completely changed their battle strategy, it even might have saved their brother's life.

Indeed, if she had told the truth to the lords of the Vale in the first place about LF murdering Lysa, orchestrating the murder of Joff and framing her, she would have had the Vale army from the get-go, and may have been able to, if not oust Ramsay, at least prevent her brother from being given to the Boltons because the Bolton rule in the North would be weaker knowing that at least 2 Starks were still alive.

Criticizing Jon repeatedly in public, snarking and rolling her eyes at her half brother/cousin, and now at Dany, isn't smart, it's immature and counter productive to their cause.

I love Arya as much as anyone, but just because the showrunners put those words in her mouth, doesn't make it anything but silly....especially since it was only last season where she was contemplating having her own sister killed.

She is not smart even if the show wants me to believe it.

 

[Every Last Chicken]

6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Ranting about how they needed more men and shouldn't attack Ramsay while having the Vale army in her back pocket, but never mentioning this as a possibility, then writing in secret to ask for the Vale army, and still never telling anyone she had done so, isn't smart, it is stupid and borderline treasonous.  If they had known there was even a chance of the Vale army that would have completely changed their battle strategy, it even might have saved their brother's life.

Criticizing Jon repeatedly in public, snarking and rolling her eyes at her half brother/cousin, and now at Dany, isn't smart, it's immature and counter productive to their cause.

 I love Arya as much as anyone, but just because the showrunners put those words in her mouth, doesn't make it anything but silly....especially since it was only last season where she was contemplating having her own sister killed.

 

Sometimes I think back about this scene and what might have changed had she told them to wait, but I also come to the realization that perhaps not saying anything was a better move in the long run. Ramsay was all about mind games and playing very cautiously. He wouldn't dismount during their parley for a 1 on 1 against Jon because he knew the odds were not in his favor. He arrogantly came outside the castle walls of Winterfell to meet Jon and his army on the open fields because the odds WERE in his favor and he knew it. Had he seen or scouted the vale army and known that they would be joining, it’s possible that he would have retreated to a more strategic position within the castle walls and prepared for a siege. 

Aside from maybe Wun-Wun, I don't think Jons army + the Vale would have had an easy time taking Winterfell by siege. In the end it was a gamble to withhold the information about the Vale troops, but the gamble paid off. 

I'm not going to say Sansa is the smartest person on the show all of a sudden; we've all seen her make some terrible blunders and pay for them dearly (not going with the Hound, not going with Brienne, etc). But to say she hasn't learned or developed is a little disingenuous in my opinion. 

 

As for the Winterfell court, I feel like what the previous poster said is accurate. They have a more open system where everyone airs their greivances without worrying about retaliation. After all, despite all the grumbling they are still at Winterfell and still appear to be ready to fight and help. Only Lord Glover chickened out at the last moment. 

[Cas Stark]

It would have been a much smarter move if she had told Jon about the Vale army....and he had decided impulsively not to wait, and attacked anyway.  Then we see she would have been smarter and the mistake was his, he's already dumb as a box of rocks in the show anyway.  It was the desire for the no surprise to anyone surprise that LF and the Vale army showed up which resulted in Sansa's actions, she couldn't tell anyone about the army because then the audience wouldn't be SHOCKED OMG, look, the Vale army.  It's bad writing that makes her stupid in this way, but it's even worse writing to try and turn that into her being smarter than Tywin Lannister, which is absurd.

[LokisRaider]

1 hour ago, Wildling Queen said:

She outsmarted Peter Baelish, possibly the most intelligent political maneuverer in the show.

She won the Battle of the Bastards and retook the North for the Starks.

She's smart enough to know when Tyrion didn't that if Cersei's army was coming, they'd already be there.

I think Sansa is pretty smart.

- She did not outsmart Baelish. Every scene invloving that plot on the show had her being played like a fiddle by him. Then boom the trial happened and she outsmarted him, and never once was there a scene explaining how this happened. Then you find out that they cut a scene where she goes to Bran for advice and he tells her that Baelish is playing her. She didn't out smart him the show just made her miraculously know it with out ever showing how, then the viewer was told after the fact that Bran let her know, that's just bad storytelling really.

- She complained and worried about not having enough men, found out there was a fresh army from the Vale ready to fight for her and then didn't tell anyone about it. Then with not telling anyone about the army of the vale she brought them into the battle when almost all of the wildlings and northemen were killed. Sounds pretty stupid to hold back vital information like that while planning a battle where the livelihood of you, your family, your friends and anyone left you hold dear to you depends on it.

- Dumb'ing down other characters to make her have a basic sense is not smart, it's just bad writing. Just like her asking "how are we going to feed all these people" and everyone else being like "oh that's right people and dragons eat food, how did I not think of that?" It's stating the obvious that anyone with a functioning brain should have thought of. 

 

[MinscS2]

2 hours ago, Wildling Queen said:

1) She outsmarted Peter Baelish, possibly the most intelligent political maneuverer in the show.

2) She won the Battle of the Bastards and retook the North for the Starks.

3) She's smart enough to know when Tyrion didn't that if Cersei's army was coming, they'd already be there.

I think Sansa is pretty smart.

I respectfully disagree. Sansa isn't stupid, but these points you brought up makes her look stupid more than smart imo.

1) We don't know how she outsmarted Littlefinger, because it seemed to happen off-screen, which is bad writing. She and Arya was arguing then all of a sudden Sansa turned on LF. I bet LF wasn't the only one who went "wtf?" at the end of S7, many viewers did too. If D&D wanted show us Sansa in S7 being clever and outwitting LF, they failed - badly.

2) Her actions and pride costed many northeners and wildings their lives, including her own brother. It would've been smarter to talk to LF earlier and have him bring "his" army instead of waiting to the very last minute when most of Jon's army was already dead. Heck, we would probably still have Wun-Wun around ...

3) I'll grant her this, but given that Tyrion has been one of the biggest idiots of the shows since S6, she hardly scores many points for this. 

 - - - - -

I can't shake the impression that whenever Sansa does something smart lately, she immediately follows it up by making something stupid. Case and point:

1) Asking Jon and Daenerys on how they plan to fix logistics and food-related issues?
Smart, it's a good question that should've been asked by someone long ago.
Asking in front of all the northern lords instead of asking them in private however? Stupid, as she's essentially undermining both of them.

2) Telling Tyrion that he's a fool for trusting Cersei. Smart, we know she's right.
Not bringing her concerns to anyone else or simply following up with Tyrion on what happens if Cersei lied to him or possibly even backstabs them? Stupid. (This can be rectified in the next episode, and probably will due to Jamie. Would've been nice to see Sansa do more than simply throw shade at Tyrion though.)

 

[gibberish]

 

22 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

I respectfully disagree. Sansa isn't stupid, but these points you brought up makes her look stupid more than smart imo.

1) We don't know how she outsmarted Littlefinger, because it seemed to happen off-screen, which is bad writing. She and Arya was arguing then all of a sudden Sansa turned on LF. I bet LF wasn't the only one who went "wtf?" at the end of S7, many viewers did too. If D&D wanted show us Sansa in S7 being clever and outwitting LF, they failed - badly.

 

she was playing him from the start, she knew Littlefinger was plotting to turn Arya and her against each other.

it happened off screen because there would be no tension otherwise. show don't tell and it's there if you look and stop "underestimating" her. 

[Cas Stark]

15 minutes ago, gibberish said:

 

she was playing him from the start, she knew Littlefinger was plotting to turn Arya and her against each other.

it happened off screen because there would be no tension otherwise. show don't tell and it's there if you look and stop "underestimating" her. 

we know the show filmed a scene where she goes to Bran and he explains everything to her, so that is not true, the show was showing us that Sansa was taken in by LF and considering killing her sister until she talks with Bran.  

[LokisRaider]

10 minutes ago, gibberish said:

 

she was playing him from the start, she knew Littlefinger was plotting to turn Arya and her against each other.

it happened off screen because there would be no tension otherwise. show don't tell and it's there if you look and stop "underestimating" her. 

That's just bad storytelling if it were true. They were in a room arguing, fighting and threatening each others lives with no one else around. There were no eyes or ears spying on them in that room, just Sansa and Arya no need to fake it.  She did not know, and it has even stated she did not know and Bran was the one that told her in a cut scene. 

Isaac Wright (Bran): "We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—."

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

On 4/15/2019 at 1:37 PM, Nerevanin said:

First of all, this is NOT a hate thread against Sansa. This is merely to discuss things.

Sansa was called "the smartest girl in the world" and she even acts like that (when she says something along the lines "I thought you were smarter than that" to Tyrion).

To be fair, Tyrion really did say a stupid there. A Joey-Tribbiani-had-a-son-with-Michael-Kelso-and-now-the-boy-talks level of stupid. "Now she has something to live for". Cersei, that is. After the death of her precious Joffrey and Myrcella and Tommen, now Cersei "has something to live for"? 

[Raksha 2014]

6 hours ago, LokisRaider said:

That's just bad storytelling if it were true. They were in a room arguing, fighting and threatening each others lives with no one else around. There were no eyes or ears spying on them in that room, just Sansa and Arya no need to fake it.  She did not know, and it has even stated she did not know and Bran was the one that told her in a cut scene. 

Isaac Wright (Bran): "We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—."

 

If I were Sansa, and Arya came to me and made all kinds of assumptions (i.e. that I was colluding with the Lannisters while wearing a pretty dress and watching them kill my father)  based on inconclusive observations and was implying that she could and might kill me and take my place with her magical assassin's skills; I would be thinking of gutting my own sister too, if only for self-preservation; thinking that she had lost her mind and would have to be killed or imprisoned.  The fact that Sansa (at least according to the script) consulted with her oracular brother before taking any action against Arya shows self-control, presence of mind, and at least some intelligence. 

[Wildling Queen]

8 hours ago, LokisRaider said:

That's just bad storytelling if it were true. They were in a room arguing, fighting and threatening each others lives with no one else around. There were no eyes or ears spying on them in that room, just Sansa and Arya no need to fake it.  She did not know, and it has even stated she did not know and Bran was the one that told her in a cut scene. 

Isaac Wright (Bran): "We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—."

If she had a legitimate plot to kill Arya and Littlefinger was totally playing her, why would she have gone to Bran? She obviously knows he can see everything if she went to him for help, wouldn't he know about her plan to kill Arya? She had to have at least been skeptical, which was smart of her.

But none of that happened in the show, so I can't really go on that.

[Smoke317]

Do people really believe that the men in Winterfell, Bran, & anyone else with any sense would have actually executed Arya?  Sure Littlefinger & Sansa’s pet fool Royce would have followed but not anyone else.  And if she did execute her sister, that shit would have been no different than Stannis & Shireen.  Half of her men would have deserted and her own death & destruction wouldn’t have been far off because Jon would have made sure she paid for that foolishness.  It would have been Civil War in the North.  Sansa & Littlefinger would have had to stage an assassination of Arya.  A public trial and execution of Arya was never a realistic option.  That entire storyline was dumb.