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Nerevanin

What smart things has Sansa done?

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First of all, this is NOT a hate thread against Sansa. This is merely to discuss things.

Sansa was called "the smartest girl in the world" and she even acts like that (when she says something along the lines "I thought you were smarter than that" to Tyrion). The question is: what smart things has she done so far? Let's see what she did in the past seasons:

In S1-S4 she was only a pawn and a hostage and she failed to do anything to improve her situation, even though she was married to a pretty powerful man. It was other people who helped her, like Margaery, Olenna and Littlefinger. She even failed to persuade Lysa that she isn't interested in Littlefinger, who, once again, had to save her. In S5 she refused to go with Brienne and later she angreed to marry Ramsay and that at the first glance can be seen as smart because suddenly she went from a wanted person to Lady of her ancient home and Lannisters lost the North. But we all know that it wasn't smart at all because Ramsay was psychopath. I thought that Sansa would win him over with her charm (or at least try to), like Margaery did with Joffrey but it didn't happen. She became a victim and did nothing. She managed to get out of Winterfell only thanks to Theon and subsequently survived only thanks to Brienne. In S6 she rejected Littlefinger's help although Jon had a smaller army than Ramsay. She eventually saves Jon's ass in the battle but once again only thanks to the help of someone else (LF). If she had accepted his offer right away, she could have save many lives in the battle. At the end of the season she killed Ramsay (he was going to be executed anyway, so who cares) and she rejected LF's help although he warned her that Jon might become the ruler of Winterfell instead of her although she is the rightful heir (which eventually happened). In S7 she seemed to be under LF's influence almost until the very end (I'm aware that this is controversial and some people say that she and Arya were playing LF the whole time but imo there wasn't a single proof of that) when she let Arya execute him and her only proof of his crimes were Bran's visions (we know there is a deleted scene in which Sansa came to Bran during the last episode and asked him for help), it's not like she tricked LF into confessing or something like that.

So... after this look back at her actions, I think that the only things that can be considered as smart are:

- marrying Ramsay (it backfired though)

- getting the Vale army to save Jon (well, obviously, but it wasn't smart to get them that late)

- not marrying Littlefinger at the end of S6 as he was a schemer (debatable though, he was de facto the ruler of The Vale, with his support she could become the ruler of Winterfell, if she wanted to, she would tie the Vale army to Jon's one, as currently they are with him mostly because of the lord Royce says so, and if LF wanted to sit on the Iron Throne, that would mean defeat Cersei, whom Sansa hates)

 

Thought? And keep it cute. :)

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yeah, it was an unfortunate line, & not just because of the grating use of american english ['smart' meaning 'intelligent'] by characters who otherwise use the british variety.

Sansa's comment on Tyrion ['i used to...'] was pretty good & reminded the viewer that Sansa is possibly on her way to surpassing her husband & former superior.

but Arya coming out with that was massive overkill.

Edited by TFP

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She was smart enough to realise metal armor gets sticky in freezing conditions, when the stupid fucking armorers, who should have been trained to realise it, didn't. She is smart enough to realise that Cersie is full of shit and that the only reason Jon bent the knee was because he wanted to dip his end in something silver.

So yea, it's not that she is that smart - just that everyone else is supremely dense.

Edited by ummester

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Yeah I was also bothered by this, she’s done almost nothing smart the whole series. I’ll give her that in S7 she did well being lady of winterfell, talking food supplies and such but that’s about it. She always whines that job and people never listen to her but she doesn’t usually have much to contribute (her advice before battle of the bastards was “be smarter than Ramsey” but no ideas on what that meant) 

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That line was so laughable. Arguably the dumbest character throughout the entire series is called the smartest. And it's all just to set up Arya taking Sansa's side over Jon/Dany.

And even if we want to say she is wise in season 8, that was already put down. Bran told everyone the NK and wights have broken through the wall and are headed this way. Then one scene later Sansa sends the Umber lord to his death telling him to go to Last Hearth.

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I don't think there has been any true examples. Though, she knows enough to not trust Cersei. So I will give her that.

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1 minute ago, nymeria_2321 said:

Yeah I was also bothered by this, she’s done almost nothing smart the whole series. I’ll give her that in S7 she did well being lady of winterfell, talking food supplies and such but that’s about it. She always whines that job and people never listen to her but she doesn’t usually have much to contribute (her advice before battle of the bastards was “be smarter than Ramsey” but no ideas on what that meant) 

The first really showed her strength and smarts in challenging Littlefinger to think through the consequences of him delivering her to Ramsey. Then her takedown of him after stringing him along as he tried to set her against Arya at the end of S7 was genius. She continuing to demonstrate increasing depths of strength and wisdom now.

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16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It wasn't a very smart line, considering that Arya knew Tywin Lannister and the idea that Sansa is smarter than Tywin is silly, even for this show.

Or Maester Luwin...

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Arya's "smartest person" line felt forced. I would have replaced smart with "cunning," since that is what she would have learned from Cersei, LF, and even Ramsey.

 

But in all honestly there isn't much reason for Arya to make that assertion beyond basic survival in hostile territories. Her time as sole Winterfell ruler has been uneventful. Not telling Jon about the Vale army is far from smart. Cunning, yes, as it ensures her survival and her winning.

 

 

Edited by tallTale

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Since she was a prisoner and her options were limited, I will focus on the time she spent in Winterfell.

1. She questioned Jon's decisions. Simply put, Sansa is the one always making him to explain his decisions. If we all remember, Jon died because he was thinking too big, not realizing what is happening around him. The same can be said happened again. She voiced the concerns and as any good leader would tell you, you need a loyal people questioning you every now and then.

2. Sansa kept the North in line. We see Glovers are gone. We see Mormont and Royce being thoroughly unhappy with the new arrangement. In Season 7, Sansa worried what Lords may do if they had found out about the letter she write to Robb when she was 12 years old. And Jon absolutely didn't give a moment of thinking what would mean to bring a foreign army with a daughter of the man who decimated Northern and Vale houses. On top of that, he is telling them that Lannister Army is also coming. Basically, without privately addressing his bannermen, without making them understand the importance of the alliance and moving past the transgressions, he expects obedience. And obedience he would not get had it not been Sansa holding the North and calming the lords down. 

3. War is not only about soldiers. Yes, Dany has 100 000 soldiers, but she has no logistics of keeping them fed. The problem here is that show makes War for Dawn will last one night of battle (in books, it is said that the last War for Dawn lasted a generation.) So Sansa summoned all the Northerners to Winterfell, made sure the food supplies are ready. She organized the defense when someone brought 100 000 soldiers without any logistical support.

4. Littlefinger. Oh, yes... We all call Cersei stupid, but then we see the three "smartest" leads buying Cersei's lies. Sansa, on the other hand, doesn't trust Cersei for a single second. She warned Jon about Cersei, but just like with Ramsay, Jon didn't listen. And we see how that turned out. Now, can you imagine what havoc would LF be able to do with them. How quickly he would turn dissent into rebellion or worse. By killing him, Sansa practically saved all of them. 

I would agree that Sansa being the smartest person doesn't make much sense, but in this current leadership, she does make a string case to be the most capable one. Jon simply ignores people, Tyrion lost his way somewhere between Essos and Westeros, Dany demands obedience (what is worse, we heard in last season how she inspired Esossi to fight for her. Now, she just sits and demands the knees to be bent.). Sansa is doing something. It is perhaps uncharted territory for all of us, but this is what some of us have been expecting - Sansa to have her own role in the fights to come.

40 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It wasn't a very smart line, considering that Arya knew Tywin Lannister and the idea that Sansa is smarter than Tywin is silly, even for this show.

I understand what they wanted to achieve but I also feel that Arya could have expressed her loyalty to Sansa in better way.

 

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Is this the same Sansa that was contemplating having her own sister killed until the cut scene where Bran has to explain all of LF treasons and crimes?  Or, do we not count that since they cut it, so we believe she figured it out herself?

I get it, she's going to live and be lady of winterfell, but the show can 'tell' me whatever it wants, her actions on the show do not indicate anyone who is very smart or savvy, she did afterall marry her family's bitterest enemy and betrayer with no plan at all for how this was to work to her advantage.

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7 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Is this the same Sansa that was contemplating having her own sister killed until the cut scene where Bran has to explain all of LF treasons and crimes?  Or, do we not count that since they cut it, so we believe she figured it out herself?

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. I mean, the first rule of any literary analysis is not to analyze what is not there. That scene is not off-screen scene, in current canon of the show, that never happened. So, I would assume yeah, we should believe that at some moment Stark sisters outplayed LF.

God only knows how ridiculous that sounds, but then again, it is what we have in the show.

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51 minutes ago, nymeria_2321 said:

Yeah I was also bothered by this, she’s done almost nothing smart the whole series. I’ll give her that in S7 she did well being lady of winterfell, talking food supplies and such but that’s about it. She always whines that job and people never listen to her but she doesn’t usually have much to contribute (her advice before battle of the bastards was “be smarter than Ramsey” but no ideas on what that meant) 

Agree. In the books she mostly works as a witness to various stuff - first things and schemes in King's Landing, later LF's schemes, although it seems based on the sample chapter from Winds of the Winter that she is on the way to become a player. In the show it is mostly the same thing, although currently she co-rules Winterfell and shows some practical skills (like caring about supplies - not sure if I would call that "smart" though, more like "common sense" or "being practical", but that's up to debate).

I hate to say this but imo her biggest contribution could have been marrying someone powerful and thus seal the alliance. But at this point there is no reason to do this and there isn't really even someone to marry because everyone but Cersei already are best friends and allies. Littlefinger was imo probably the last one who to she could marry and gain something from it (as he was more or less the ruler of the Vale at the moment).

 

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Is this the same Sansa that was contemplating having her own sister killed until the cut scene where Bran has to explain all of LF treasons and crimes?  Or, do we not count that since they cut it, so we believe she figured it out herself?

I get it, she's going to live and be lady of winterfell, but the show can 'tell' me whatever it wants, her actions on the show do not indicate anyone who is very smart or savvy, she did afterall marry her family's bitterest enemy and betrayer with no plan at all for how this was to work to her advantage.

Yeah, I'm not buying the whole "Sansa & Arya are playing Littlefinger into playing them" narrative. To me it seemed more like "Petyr is right, so I better get rid of Arya before she gets rid of me... maybe I might ask Bran about it... Bran, I have a question... Oh sh...!"

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2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

The first really showed her strength and smarts in challenging Littlefinger to think through the consequences of him delivering her to Ramsey. Then her takedown of him after stringing him along as he tried to set her against Arya at the end of S7 was genius. She continuing to demonstrate increasing depths of strength and wisdom now.

 

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Staying alive.

This, and asking "Aragorn's tax policy" questions like how are we gonna feed everyone, plus dragons, who have to be fed more than 20 goats per day. Like omg...that is a lot of food. 

 

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