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Damon_Tor

My hope for AryaWaif holds on

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, hallam said:

I have a feeling the hound will end up doing it for her.

There are several options: The Hound, Jamie, Tyrion, Arya, Euron... I still think about Valonqar, the little brother.

Edited by Kajjo

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Posted (edited)

I‘m very sure it‘s going to be the Valonqar (= Jamie)

Edited by Zehde

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5 hours ago, Kajjo said:

There are several options: The Hound, Jamie, Tyrion, Arya, Euron... I still think about Valonqar, the little brother.

 

1 hour ago, Zehde said:

I‘m very sure it‘s going to be the Valonqar (= Jamie)

But valonqar does not exist in the show continuity. 

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On 4/15/2019 at 8:31 PM, Damon_Tor said:

The Waif's own face is on the wall because the last step in a Faceless Man's training is for them to remove their own face.

This is more absurd than surviving three 6 inch puncture wounds to the stomach before jumping into raw sewage, then running like the terminator no worse for wear.

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2 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

But valonqar does not exist in the show continuity. 

Taht's true. The question is whether GRRM and DD consider killing Cersei minor enough of an issue to deviate between book and show. If they consider Cersei's end to be important, the promise of "the same ending" would have to hold up.

 

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Posted (edited)

After watching the chapter, I started to think that Ary was killed in Braavos and it is the wait who impersonates her. Her gestures are "slow" an somehow forced...  i do not lke the idea but...

Fortunately I have read here that Nymeria recognizes her which is points and, well, if it was not Arya, Bran would know.

 

By the way... I can not recall the moment when Arya and Brand meet again. Did it happen on screenand did I miss it?

 

P.S. I apologize if my english is not too good, I'm from Spain

 

Edited by Black Arya

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On 4/16/2019 at 7:20 AM, Zehde said:

This is probably true to some extend. I sincerely hope he then just picks whichever solid fan theory he finds fitting and writes it out. That should be not too hard, and the fans that came up with the theory were bursting of joy while noone else can be too disappionted

If he ever finishes the books, I am expecting some surprises. Season 5 deviated from ADwD quite a lot, so there is already the potential to end things quite differently. For one, it might be Lady Stoneheart who ultimately gets revenge on LF.

On 4/16/2019 at 7:20 AM, Zehde said:

Should he not have worked it all out beforehand and now try to come up with something completely new by force, just to be original, or even no solution at all (like JJ Abrahams LOST), it would 100lead to massive disappointment among the readers.

So that's why LOST started out so good and ended up sucking?

I think the GoT readers are already massively disappointed. No where for GRRM to go but up from here. Another forum member said he heard that HBO paid him not to finish the books until the show is over. How cool would it be for him to announce a release date right after the show ends?

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Black Arya said:

After watching the chapter, I started to think that Ary was killed in Braavos and it is the wait who impersonates her. Her gestures are "slow" an somehow forced...  i do not lke the idea but...

Fortunately I have read here that Nymeria recognizes her which is points and, well, if it was not Arya, Bran would know.

 

By the way... I can not recall the moment when Arya and Brand meet again. Did it happen on screenand did I miss it?

 

P.S. I apologize if my english is not too good, I'm from Spain

 

Arya and Bran were reunited in Season 7. I remember it because when he and Sansa were reunited, he did not return her hug, but he did kind of return Arya's.

 

Not only would Bran know if Arya is not Arya, he would know if LF is still alive. The Baelish theory also can't work because to get his face someone would have to kill him. There is nothing in the show to indicate that a man can literally take his own face off. You notice whenever a FM takes a face off, his/her face is underneath.

Your English is fine. :)

Edited by SansaJonRule

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5 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Arya and Bran were reunited in Season 7. I remember it because when he and Sansa were reunited, he did not return her hug, but he did kind of return Arya's.

 

Not only would Bran know if Arya is not Arya, he would know if LF is still alive. The Baelish theory also can't work because to get his face someone would have to kill him. There is nothing in the show to indicate that a man can literally take his own face off. You notice whenever a FM takes a face off, his/her face is underneath.

Your English is fine. :)

Thanks :) I will have to watch that episode again for i do not recall the moment.

Corcening LF, I have never been too convinced by the theory of having been impersonated by a faceless man. The coin could be a way to pay for information or another trick... Maybe he was informing H'gar that Arya was there... which was unnecessary

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3 hours ago, Black Arya said:

he coin could be a way to pay for information or another trick

Yes, the "Baelish and the blonde" scene is weird. They made anything out of it so far. Baelish could reappear. However, I don't think he will in the show.

Arya, on the other hand, is Arya for sure. Nymeria recognizes her, Bran would know, Arya and Sansa share so must intimate information... no way... that would be inbelievable.

 

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On 4/15/2019 at 10:33 AM, Damon_Tor said:

it will retroactively redeem the entire Braavos subplot and close several gaping plot-wounds

It would mean Arya died the least dignified death of any Stark, and her five seasons of character development were for naught. (Granted, that may be the case anyway.) All so that we went to Bravo for a reason. Plus, we get more of a character no one likes and maybe Jon dead for no good reason. Yipee. 

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On 4/15/2019 at 7:31 PM, Damon_Tor said:

The Waif's own face is on the wall because the last step in a Faceless Man's training is for them to remove their own face.

Yuck. And why? Also yuck. 

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On 4/16/2019 at 5:56 AM, ummester said:

The Baelish theory is that the girl he paid in the tunnel/corridor he paid with a faceless man coin to wear his face and be killed by Arya - the real LF is still alive and possibly has deep ties to the faceless men himself.

The reason the Arya Waif theory and faceless Baelish theory persist is because the both plots in the show are so poor and full of holes that people are trying to fill them in. Either theory would be cool if it was real - but it's doubtful, more likely just poor story telling. This said, considering neither plot is finished being written by GRRM and probably never will be, chances are that the author himself has no idea how to wrap up all the plot threads he started.

Neither would be cool, and both would present their own gaping holes. 

 

They are how Chief Wiggum would dig his way out of a plothole. "No, no. Dig up, stupid."

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Posted (edited)

Theoretically only way I see Littlefinger returning is in attempt to gain the throne via Cersei. That has always been his goal. Maybe he's now Euron, it'd be an attempt to save two plots with with one stone or something. Hell, I am surprised that writers didn't see how badly they messed up with how Littlefinger ended and saw the theory and went with it. I am still wondering why Sansa didn't just tell the truth about what happened to Lysa, she could have had Baelish thrown out the moondoor.

The Arya-Waif thing is lost. Arya is one of five of GRRM's main characters, they wouldn't do anything like that to her character.

Edited by longest night

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On 4/19/2019 at 4:06 PM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

 

But valonqar does not exist in the show continuity. 

 

On 4/19/2019 at 6:13 PM, Kajjo said:

Taht's true. The question is whether GRRM and DD consider killing Cersei minor enough of an issue to deviate between book and show. If they consider Cersei's end to be important, the promise of "the same ending" would have to hold up.

 

Cersei is a main character. No doubt about it. However she will die in the books, she will die in the show. The showrunners didn't include the prophecy to not spoil the show. It does not mean that the valonquar won't kill her.

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7 minutes ago, T and A said:

Cersei is a main character. No doubt about it. However she will die in the books, she will die in the show. The showrunners didn't include the prophecy to not spoil the show.

I don't follow that logic. So, GRRM did include the prophecy in order to spoil the books, I guess? But D&D keep tighter lid, and furthermore believe that not a single show watcher is aware of the existence of the books?

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31 minutes ago, T and A said:

However she will die in the books, she will die in the show

Agreed. Cersei will die. 

31 minutes ago, T and A said:

The showrunners didn't include the prophecy to not spoil the show.

I don't understand this logic. It was clear that almost every show watcher will learn about the book's prophecy. 

Maybe they discarded this detail of the prophecy, because the "valonqar" will be interpreted in a very wide sense anyway and does not make really sense for more "straight-forwardly oriented" watchers?

We don't know Valyrian. Maybe "valonqar" is gender-neutral, too... who knows.

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35 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Agreed. Cersei will die. 

I don't understand this logic. It was clear that almost every show watcher will learn about the book's prophecy. 

All of my friends, family and a lot of coworkers watch GoT. None of them have any idea what the valonquar prophecy is. The majority of the viewers don't spend time in discussing in forums or read theories about it on the internet, you know? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

I don't follow that logic. So, GRRM did include the prophecy in order to spoil the books, I guess? But D&D keep tighter lid, and furthermore believe that not a single show watcher is aware of the existence of the books?

No! GRRM made that prophecy ambiguous. There are tons of prophecies in the books, none of them clear to us what it means. But in the books, you can tell those prophecies, because reading a book is different than watching something on television. I try to explain it:

GoT is a tv series, aimed to a way larger audience than book readers. And it is a different story telling format. When they write the episodes, book readers are not their main aim. And if Jamie or Tyrion kills Cersei it will be a much bigger shock for the audience, than if the viewer has already aniticipated that with a prophecy, even if it is not clear who the valonquar is. You would give away that a little brother would kill her. You would also give away that Cersei will die. Of course the mojority of the viewers already think that Cersei will die, but telling it straight away is different. 

Also there is one golden rule for television and movies: show, don't tell. Exposition should be kept at minimum. Because televison works with pictures and aims different parts of our brains. If you want someone to tell you a story, you read it, and you don't watch it. That is for example why people are not happy with the Bran flashbacks. They feel weird, because it takes the flow of the story away, and starts to tell the audience what happend. It is just narrrative, no story. And it feels as if someone is suddenly starting to read the manual. The audience want to explore themself what happend. Not an overall narrator who gives the story away. 

I could go on and explain a lot more. You should check out some proffessional books, how television and movies works and why scripts for television and movies are different than books. And why they must be different than books. Alas, a lot of people here in this particular forum don't understand that, and thus they make arguements, that are just wrong. 

Edited by T and A

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1 minute ago, T and A said:

 I could go on and explain a lot more. You should check out some proffessional books, how television and movies works. And why they must be different than books. Alas, a lot of people here in this particular forum don't understand that, and thus they make arguements, that are just wrong. 

Thank you for your advice! And for sharing your knowledge, too!

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