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LadyNoOne

Jon (Aegon) and Daenerys

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2 hours ago, Zehde said:

Oh my god, that would be sooo cheesy. 

But you are right, it‘s D&D after all, and they might well like a relationship drama like this.

It would be kinda cheesy, but also, it would make sense.  Jon made a big to-do about never fathering a bastard in Season One in a conversation with Sam.

1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

There is no way they do the Nissa Nissa thing, if they reduce the female lead to a plot device for the male lead getting his hero moment, the amount of outrage and backlash they would get in today's climate would be insane. If Dany does die, she will die of her own agency, not as a power up for Jon Snow.

This is a valid point. I am wondering (and Sam's dialogue with Jon hinted at this) that she will willingly sacrifice herself to save everyone. Or Nissa Nissa is someone else.

 

1 hour ago, D-Shiznit said:

One way to do the bittersweet ending would be to have Dany/Jon marry, take the Throne, be happy, and have a son, but the last scene shows that the son has the Targaryen madness.

Showing that the more things change, the more they don't.

I think this is a possibility.

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2 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

In the books it is not only Targaeryens who can ride them. It's mostly them, but not exclusively. We don't know if anyone but Dany knows about Jon riding the dragon, at least I think that no one else saw it. From the way Dany acted it seemed like she supposed that the dragon will let Jon ride because she allowed him too or something like that.

They did. Second time I watched I realised Aegon flew past Varys, Tyrion and Davos. Flew above some natives too but not sure if they saw it was him. But the three definitely saw him. 

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2 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

There is no way they do the Nissa Nissa thing, if they reduce the female lead to a plot device for the male lead getting his hero moment, the amount of outrage and backlash they would get in today's climate would be insane. If Dany does die, she will die of her own agency, not as a power up for Jon Snow.

I agree. I think Jon will be the Nissa Nissa, not Dany. We've already seen several times that Jon is willing to sacrifice his life to save the people. Jon is the sacrificer and Dany is the conqueror, a reversal of gender roles in the Azor Ahai story. There could also be another woman who loves Jon who will serve as Azor Ahai, and that's Arya.

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1 hour ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I feel like burning the Tarlys did her in. Jon can't marry the woman who killed his best friend's family and I'm sure Sam will work to completely depower her.

I feel the same. This isn't sinking in with folks for some reason. 

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1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I feel the same. This isn't sinking in with folks for some reason. 

I don't agree.  I think Dany realized her grave misstep, but there is a lot more going on here. Jon even says to Sam that he has executed people who have disobeyed him.  The only reason people are all mad is Dany's method of execution.

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1 hour ago, paulh_85 said:

 

Throw in the similarities to how his own family members died at the hand of her father, and its quite close to the bone.

 

In their first meeting she apologised for the actions of her father and said something like "dont judge a woman by the actions of her father" but now he knows shes done exactly the same thing

BARRISTAN: When the people rose in revolt against him, your father set their towns and castles aflame. He murdered sons in front of their fathers. He burned men alive with Wildfire, and laughed as they screamed. And his efforts to stamp out dissent led to rebellion that killed every Targaryen except two.

DAENERYS: I'm not my father.

BARRISTAN: No, Your Grace. Thank the gods. But the Mad King gave his enemies the justice he thought they deserved. And each time it made him feel powerful and right. Until the very end.

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3 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I don't agree.  I think Dany realized her grave misstep, but there is a lot more going on here. Jon even says to Sam that he has executed people who have disobeyed him.  The only reason people are all mad is Dany's method of execution.

Its not just that. Its how its been portrayed. How Tyrion tries to stop her. How Tyrion and Varys are driven to drink. How she specifically does not tell Jon about it. How the maesters don't tell Sam. How the reveal sends Sam to tell Jon who he is because Danaerys shouldn't be queen.

They've led up to this from that moment. Its the iceberg and Danaerys is the Titanic

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6 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I don't agree.  I think Dany realized her grave misstep, but there is a lot more going on here. Jon even says to Sam that he has executed people who have disobeyed him.  The only reason people are all mad is Dany's method of execution.

and did you catch Sam's reply? "And you've also shown mercy."

The foil is what Dany vs. Jon do to people who lost on the battlefield.

Sam had him cornered on all points. 

They don't know about Dany's method of execution yet.

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49 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

at least I think that no one else saw it.

Of course they saw it. That's why they look so astonished. 

1:45

49 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Dany acted it seemed like she supposed that the dragon will let Jon ride

Yes, my take was that she simply knows the behaviour of her dragons and can tell Rhaegar was friendly to Jon, even offering himself to Jon.

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

and did you catch Sam's reply? "And you've also shown mercy."

The foil is what Dany vs. Jon do to people who lost on the battlefield.

Sam had him cornered on all points. 

They don't know about Dany's method of execution yet.

So if you kills someones brother that means you are not fit to rule??

Then i guess Westeros will have no ruler then. Every ruler takes lives unfortunately. Even Jon Snow. As he said himself. 

Yes, Jon has shown mercy but so has dany. 

So from one of the earlier season Dany goes from "she quite the women" when sam was talking to Aemon to suddenly "she shouldnt be queen because she killed my brother". IDK...thats kinda shortsighted and selfish. What sam needs to do is get over like he told Jon to get over it in regards to house bolton or when he told olly to get over it in regards to the wildlings. 

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10 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

and did you catch Sam's reply? "And you've also shown mercy."

The foil is what Dany vs. Jon do to people who lost on the battlefield.

Sam had him cornered on all points. 

They don't know about Dany's method of execution yet.

He didnt show mercy to ramsey bolton who lost on the battlefield did he? No, he let Sansa fed him to the dogs. I guess that makes them both monsters and unworthy to lead then. 

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Posted (edited)

@Mrmanick1182 I feel like you aren't seeing the bigger picture here. Its why she killed him. Because he would not submit to her. She could have imprisoned them but she didn't. I'm reminded of Mance who refused to submit and was torched by Stannis. Jon was disgusted and put him out of his misery. Not only that, this was a young man who clearly was just loyal to his father. He deserved to die for that? Danaerys is full of binaries. 'They can live in my new world or die in their old one' being a past example. There is no compromise, there is no middle ground and that is all well and good with something simple as being anti-slavery but things are much more complicated in Westeros.

Edited by AryaNymeriaVisenya

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2 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

I feel like burning the Tarlys did her in. Jon can't marry the woman who killed his best friend's family and I'm sure Sam will work to completely depower her.

This. Even more to the point, if she'd spared Dickon (snigger), the situation may have been different given the instruction he had from his father to bend the knee. Daenerys has majorly weakened herself here with Sam likely to become more and more key to the plot.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Its not just that. Its how its been portrayed. How Tyrion tries to stop her. How Tyrion and Varys are driven to drink. How she specifically does not tell Jon about it. How the maesters don't tell Sam. How the reveal sends Sam to tell Jon who he is because Danaerys shouldn't be queen.

They've led up to this from that moment. Its the iceberg and Danaerys is the Titanic

Let's be real for a second. I see this statement thrown around a lot and it always baffles me.

Why would Daenerys tell Jon about it?
She doesn't know who Samwell Tarly is, and she doesn't know that Samwell and Jon are BFF's.
She knows that Randall Tarly was a defiant millitary leader who waged war against her and her allies - that's it. 

The moment she realizes who Sam is, she tells him there on the spot without trying to hide it.
She even (though Dany-haters do their best to ignore it) reacts with slight regret and seems to take pity on Sam.
Her silence isn't a sign of indifference, it's genuinely the best response given the situation. She doesn't regret killing Randall so she won't apologize for doing it, but she isn't gloating about it either. it's fully in character for her.

With that said, I expect Sam and Jorah to have a serious talk in the next episode. Doesn't he wield Heartsbane in a teaser? I doubt he took it without Sam's consent. 

Edit: I'm genuinely fine with people discussing the grey area regarding putting Dickon to the torch (although he did kind of go out on his on volition - if he had just been quiet he'd still be alive), but pointing out that "Dany is evil because she didn't tell Jon!" is not an argument in any shape or form. You can't tell someone something you don't know, let alone lie about something you don't know...

Edited by MinscS2

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Mrmanick1182 said:

So if you kills someones brother that means you are not fit to rule??

Take it up with Sam. He think she isn't. I side with Sam because he's the moral heart of the show.

The foil is what Jon and Dany do with masses of people who lose on the battlefield. The show illustrated how the Lannister soldiers and Dickon were just poor boys fighting because they had to. Both the wildlings and the Lannisters were beaten dogs and not a threat to anyone. Jon made use of the wildlings, Dany saw no use for Randyll or Dickon. Jon would have put them to work or at least detained them. But he also probably would never be in that situation because he doesn't burn people alive to conquer them, in pursuit of his birthright.

Sam is scared of Dany and wants to stop her. He sees her as a dangerous figure.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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I think the directors are trying to cram a bit of the Aegon/Young Gryff story into Jon. Im probably way off here but this is my true opinion. I think Harry Strickland will somehow find out about Jon's true lineage, and the Golden Company ends up switching sides either right before, or during the big battle. I see Daenarys at first will feel happy that they managed to draw more to the cause, but shes going to find out that the true reason for the Golden Company switching sides has nothing to do with her, but with Jon, as the last male Targaryen. This will cause a rift between Jon & Dany, and she'll ask why he didnt tell her this before when he first knew about, and at this point he goes Mad Queen and forces Jons hand to put her down for good.

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4 hours ago, Zehde said:

Right. But she used up all the wilfire, or should she have any more?

Only that wildfire kept under the Great Sept, I believe.  There are stores of it all over the Capitol, including the Red Keep.  Probably most to all of it was used in the Battle of Blackwater Bay from the RK, but who knows?  Besides, the Maesters know who to make it; so, it does not appear to be a limited resource. Cheers.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Take it up with Sam. He think she isn't. I side with Sam because he's the moral heart of the show.

The foil is what Jon and Dany do with masses of people who lose on the battlefield. The show illustrated how the Lannister soldiers and Dickon were just poor boys fighting because they had to. Both the wildlings and the Lannisters were beaten dogs and not a threat to anyone. Jon made use of the wildlings, Dany saw no use for Randyll or Dickon. Jon would have put them to work or at least detained them. But he also probably would never be in that situation because he doesn't burn people alive to conquer them, in pursuit of his birthright.

Sam scared of Dany and wants to stop her. He sees her as a dangerous figure.

True. He prefers to have his captured Lord be eaten by a bunch of dogs. lol

Edited by El Guapo

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5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Let's be real for a second. I see this statement thrown around a lot and it always baffles me.

Why would Daenerys tell Jon about it?
She doesn't know who Samwell Tarly is, and she doesn't know that Samwell and Jon are BFF's.
She knows that Randall Tarly was a defiant millitary leader who waged war against her and her allies - that's it. 

The moment she realizes who Sam is, she tells him there on the spot without trying to hide it.
She even (though Dany-haters do their best to ignore it) reacts with slight regret and seems to take pity on Sam.
Her silence isn't a sign of indifference, it's genuinely the best response given the situation. She doesn't regret killing Randall so she won't apologize for doing it, but she isn't gloating about it either. it's fully in character for her.

With that said, I expect Sam and Jorah to have a serious talk in the next episode. Doesn't he wield Heartsbane in a teaser? I doubt he took it without Sam's consent.
 

Yep. And Sam will see that she can show mercy next episode when she spares Jaime. 

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4 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Now when the three stooges (Davos, Tyrion, Varys) finally remembered that marriage-alliances is a thing in Westeros, I'd say it's very likely.

Jon will likely try to pull out of his relationship with Daenerys, at least momentary, now when he got the news from Sam, but before he successfully manages to do that, Daenerys will throw the pregnancy-bomb in his face and he'll be right back in. Jon would never father a bastard after all.

My predictions.

Hi, the only thing I disagree with is that Dany hasn't given any indication that she is pregnant.  If she had, I think Jon would want to protect her more than ever... Yes, he has expressed that he did not want to father a bastard for fear of having the same legacy he has had to endure; but he is honorable, after all.

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