Samwell Tarly stole the spotlight.

[sweetsunray]

16 minutes ago, princess brittany said:

jamie wanted to intervene? 

Yes, most of the details about Aerys's cruelties we know through Jaime's POV, who believed he'd been chosen to be KG for his skill, but once he vowed to be KG at the tourney of HH, Aerys wouldn't even permit him to enter the lists and sent him packing to guard Rhaella and little Viserys. He soon learned Aerys just chose him to troll Tywin basically. That's why you understand why Tywin wants Jaime to leave the KG.

Not all of the KG were happy with Aerys. Several were good friends with Rhaegar, the ones at the ToJ (except for the LC of the KG). One of them had a bat on his helmet. That's the sigil of the family who once were lord at Harrenhal. He organised the tourney of Harrenhal, that was so huge that almost everybody of importance of the realm was there (except for the Tullys and Tywin: Tywin had wanted to arrange a marriage between Lysa and Jaime). Varys though whispered into Aerys's ear that his son Rhaegar meant to hold a great council there to depose the king for being mad. So, for the first time in years Aerys then journeyed to go to that tourney. Hence the two families who saw their plans ruined (Lannisters and Tullys) didn't go.

Could you imagine: Edmure would have been Jaime's brother-in-law, and of Cat his sister-in-law.

It was also likely that Cersei put it into Aerys's head to name Jaime, for she wanted her brother in KL (they already bedded each other). But yeah, once Jaime went, Tywin got Cersei back to Casterly Rock, and then after the Rebellion when Lyanna turned out to be dead, the match with Robert was made, and Cersei got to be Queen after all.

[House Cambodia]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

most of the details about Aerys's cruelties we know through Jaime's POV

Indeed, and I have a hunch that by the end of the story we're going to learn that Aerys had a character arc wherein he was a good man and a good king until he deteriorated into paranoia disastrously towards the end - i.e. the very same character arc that his daughter is going through.

[SeanF]

3 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

Indeed, and I have a hunch that by the end of the story we're going to learn that Aerys had a character arc wherein he was a good man and a good king until he deteriorated into paranoia disastrously towards the end - i.e. the very same character arc that his daughter is going through.

Aerys saw and heard things that weren't there, suggesting he was scizophrenic as well as paranoid.

it's unclear whether Daenerys (in the books) has inherited her father's mental illness.   Her visions of Qaithe may or may not be real, and her most recent chapter shows her hallucinating - but that could be the result of sunstroke and eating poisonous berries.

i don't think Daenerys in the series suffers from mental illness.

 

[MinscS2]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

i don't think Daenerys in the series suffers from mental illness.

She doesn't. She's been callous and ruthless against her perceived enemies since season 2. 
Nothing has changed up to this point, other than that her obsession with the crown has increased.

Her callous and ruthless streak against people she perceive as evil has always been a part of her persona, even if Dany-haters are grasping at every straw they can in order to make her suddenly appear evil and cruel.

The show already has an evil and cruel Queen who get's aroused by killing and torturing. She's currently in Kings Landing.

[Ice Queen]

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

We don't know what HR did in the books exactly, we do know that Ned thinks it was crucial. It was probably something similar. What is different to the show is that Ned never ever bragged about him defeating Arthur Dayne. Other people claim it of him, because they know HR wasn't a swordsman and so not possibly could have dueled against those KG. And when Bran mentions his father defeating Arthur Dayne to Ned, Ned corrects him and refers to HR's importance. So, Ned is actually modest about it.

Of course Ned is not Jon's father. Lyanna was Jon's mother, and she was actually good at it, per Bran's vision of her sparring with Benjen in the godswood and her beating several squires with a swords when they harrass Howland Reed at the tourney of Harrenhal where Rhaegar and her first met.

Ned was sad about the death of Arthur Dayne, who was doing what his prince commanded him to do. So many good people died. I agree that HR's role in the books was probably similar to the show. 

I'm pretty sure skill with a weapon isn't inherited, but Ned made sure they had the training they needed. Practice makes perfect. 

[Ice Queen]

3 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

She doesn't. She's been callous and ruthless against her perceived enemies since season 2. 
Nothing has changed up to this point, other than that her obsession with the crown has increased.

Her callous and ruthless streak against people she perceive as evil has always been a part of her persona, even if Dany-haters are grasping at every straw they can in order to make her suddenly appear evil and cruel.

The show already has an evil and cruel Queen who get's aroused by killing and torturing. She's currently in Kings Landing.

She is a sociopath with a Napoleon complex. 

[Ice Queen]

10 hours ago, princess brittany said:

jamie wanted to intervene? 

Yes. Jaime wasn't always a cynical, jaded jerk who let his personality sink beneath Cersei's. It's only when he's away from Cersei and around truly decent people like Brienne that he can throw off those shackles and start to change. Brienne's innocence (even naivete) influenced him for the good. 

[Ice Queen]

10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yes, most of the details about Aerys's cruelties we know through Jaime's POV, who believed he'd been chosen to be KG for his skill, but once he vowed to be KG at the tourney of HH, Aerys wouldn't even permit him to enter the lists and sent him packing to guard Rhaella and little Viserys. He soon learned Aerys just chose him to troll Tywin basically. That's why you understand why Tywin wants Jaime to leave the KG.

Not all of the KG were happy with Aerys. Several were good friends with Rhaegar, the ones at the ToJ (except for the LC of the KG). One of them had a bat on his helmet. That's the sigil of the family who once were lord at Harrenhal. He organised the tourney of Harrenhal, that was so huge that almost everybody of importance of the realm was there (except for the Tullys and Tywin: Tywin had wanted to arrange a marriage between Lysa and Jaime). Varys though whispered into Aerys's ear that his son Rhaegar meant to hold a great council there to depose the king for being mad. So, for the first time in years Aerys then journeyed to go to that tourney. Hence the two families who saw their plans ruined (Lannisters and Tullys) didn't go.

Could you imagine: Edmure would have been Jaime's brother-in-law, and of Cat his sister-in-law.

It was also likely that Cersei put it into Aerys's head to name Jaime, for she wanted her brother in KL (they already bedded each other). But yeah, once Jaime went, Tywin got Cersei back to Casterly Rock, and then after the Rebellion when Lyanna turned out to be dead, the match with Robert was made, and Cersei got to be Queen after all.

Just adding to this, that's also the tourney where Lyanna and Rhaegar met. It's an awesome story, really. When Brandon teased her about it at the feast, she poured wine over his head. Rhaegar named her the queen of love and beauty and gave her blue roses, despite the fact that he was married to Elia of Dorne. 

And...the Knight of the Laughing Tree. 

[sweetsunray]

8 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

Just adding to this, that's also the tourney where Lyanna and Rhaegar met. It's an awesome story, really. When Brandon teased her about it at the feast, she poured wine over his head. Rhaegar named her the queen of love and beauty and gave her blue roses, despite the fact that he was married to Elia of Dorne. 

And...the Knight of the Laughing Tree. 

Should be when Uncle Benjen teased her about it, she poured wine over Benjen's head.

ETA: and yes, the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and everybody guessing who "he" was. Mad Aerys believing it was Jaime, disobeying his first command and still participate in the tourney.

[MinscS2]

36 minutes ago, Ice Queen said:

She is a sociopath with a Napoleon complex. 

I think you need to look up what "sociopath" means.

As for Napoleon complex, are you implying that if Daenerys would've been played by a longer actress, that her personality would be different?
Don't make me laugh...

[Ice Queen]

1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

I think you need to look up what "sociopath" means.

As for Napoleon complex, are you implying that if Daenerys would've been played by a longer actress, that her personality would be different?
Don't make me laugh...

I know exactly what sociopath means. And she is one. 

And no, it's got nothing to do with the actress. 

[MinscS2]

Just now, Ice Queen said:

I know exactly what sociopath means. And she is one. 

And no, it's got nothing to do with the actress. 

Then you don't know what Napoleon complex means. 

[sweetsunray]

 

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

Aerys saw and heard things that weren't there, suggesting he was scizophrenic as well as paranoid.

it's unclear whether Daenerys (in the books) has inherited her father's mental illness.   Her visions of Qaithe may or may not be real, and her most recent chapter shows her hallucinating - but that could be the result of sunstroke and eating poisonous berries.

i don't think Daenerys in the series suffers from mental illness.

 

Envy and real life betrayals can cause paranoia. Paranoia is also a trait with personality disordered (a reflection on expecting everybody else to be as selfish and envious), not only mentally disordered. Other than that he was very much sadistic. His petty enjoyment in ruining someone's day such as Jaime by withholding him from partaking in the tourney of HH, is also something typical for a personality disorder. Nor did he ever make a lasting or real bond with anybody. His philandering and abuse of Rhaella illustrate that, but also his complete disconnection of Rheagar and Viserys (Rhaella tried to keep him away). I'm not so sure we can say he saw things that weren't there. Cersei and Joffrey are the closest examples to him imo.

I agree I don't think Dany suffers from a mental illness. Her internal thought processes include grief and missing people (her mourning for Drogo and in a way Jorah), signs of an ability to make emotional bonds, not just losing an extension or prop of herself. Nor is she without empathy. She can be genuinely horrified at the masters inflicting pain. I wouldn't go as far as regarding her an empath though. And while she feels entitled, she is entirely without envy, nor selfish. So, I cannot consider her as personality disordered. She' has a touch of Tywin imo, rather Machiavellan and enjoying it to a degree, but nowhere near as moraly bankrupt as him. Tywin's empathy goes no further than family. And a touch of a messiah complex.

I think the comparison to Robespierre is perhaps the most applicable, as she justifies and rationalizes her callous and ruthless acts without questioning them, even if innocents pay the price.

But that is book-Dany. Show-Dany wasn't shown to grieve Drogo in such a way, and she was explicitly protrayed as not having bonded with Daario whatsoever. We do not really see her grief for Visarion. Hell, even show-Cersei has shown more grief than Dany has, on her own, by herself.

 

[Kajjo]

7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

She doesn't. She's been callous and ruthless against her perceived enemies since season 2. 

True. 

7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Her callous and ruthless streak against people she perceive as evil has always been a part of her persona, even if Dany-haters are grasping at every straw they can in order to make her suddenly appear evil and cruel.

Agreed. Daenaerys showed the signs of madness all way long, as did Viserys. They are both extremely fixated on the crown and their stupid birthright. 

7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

The show already has an evil and cruel Queen who get's aroused by killing and torturing. She's currently in Kings Landing.

Cersei is a power-hungy bitch ready to kill for her interests. You might call this jokingly evil. She is not really cruel, but callous. 

Where is Cersei aroused by torturing? Cersei is not sasdistic, she just revels in revenge, e.g. with Ellaria or the shame-nun. I can understand both reactions. These are sane actions. Who would not enjoy killing the murderer of the own child? Almost everyone.

[MinscS2]

2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Where is Cersei aroused by torturing? Cersei is not sasdistic, she just revels in revenge, e.g. with Ellaria or the shame-nun. I can understand both reactions. These are sane actions. Who would not enjoy killing the murderer of the own child? Almost everyone.

Cersei get's pleasure from torturing people she hates. That's not being callous, that's called being cruel and vicious.

I'm sure there are other occasions when we see her sadistic side, but on top of my head:
After the blew up the Sept with all the people in it, she sipped some whine and looked very pleased.
After she killed Tyene Sand and locked away Ellaria, she went straight to Jamie and had sex with him.
 

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

After the blew up the Sept with all the people in it, she sipped some whine and looked very pleased.

Being pleased has nothing to do with sexuell stimulation, Being aroused refers to sexuality. Cersei is not a sadist.

Cersei smiles because finally she wins and gets rid of all the people that done her wrong. This seven hells of High Sparrow and his hypocritic Faith Militia to be the most important one. Cersei went through a lot of hardship because of these repugnant movement.

Cersei and Jamie bed scene is probably the next morning with waking up. "Straight up to have sex" was not shown.

[MinscS2]

2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Cersei and Jamie bed scene is probably the next morning with waking up. "Straight up to have sex" was not shown.

No she went to Jaime and pulled down his pants straight after killing Tyene.

See for yourself, it's S7E3.

[sweetsunray]

43 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Being pleased has nothing to do with sexuell stimulation, Being aroused refers to sexuality. Cersei is not a sadist.

It's actually staright out of Aerys's book. She gets sexually aroused when delivering pain. That not just makes her a sadist, but a sexual sadist.

[Kajjo]

39 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

No she went to Jaime and pulled down his pants straight after killing Tyene.

I haven't rewatched, but I believe you. However, there is no indication that Cersei is sadistic. They have normal sex together. 

Cersei ist probably just enthrilled to have solved this issue. The revels in getting her revenge.

[starklover]

9 hours ago, Ice Queen said:

Yes. Jaime wasn't always a cynical, jaded jerk who let his personality sink beneath Cersei's. It's only when he's away from Cersei and around truly decent people like Brienne that he can throw off those shackles and start to change. Brienne's innocence (even naivete) influenced him for the good. 

yeah it seems like cersei brings out the worst in him. he did save brienne from the bear in season 3.