sweetsunray Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Cas Stark said: I thought it was interesting that actor who plays Sam calls Dany psychopathic. And morally bankrupt. And that he says that Dany can't do anything to change his mind about her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 14 hours ago, Krishtotter said: This descent into Robespierre-style idealistic tyranny, reached a nadir last season when Dany burned the Tarlys - a father and son - to death, without first giving them a trial or attempting to remonstrate with by means of reason and discussion. She also threatened to burn Varys alive. And yet, Dany has still exhibited selflessness - for instance by finally allying herself with Jon's cause and making 'peace' with the machiavellian Cersei to fight the Night King, thus putting her lifelong ambitions for the throne on hold for the greater good of the people she intends to rule. And? Did Jamie the hero give Olenna a trial before he poisoned her to death. Nope. Did Jon give Janos Slynt a trial before lopping off his head? Nope. Did Jon give Thorne, Olly (a child) and the other conspirators a trial before he had them hung? Nope. Did Ned give the NW deserter a trial before he lopped off his head? Nope. Did Jon or Sansa give Ramsey a trial before sicking wild dogs to eat him alive? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 They could have stuck to Dickon in book canon, who is 11 years old and newly wed, but they really softened Dany by aging him up. That reaction could be knowing Dany burns defenseless prisoners, one of whom is his younger (really younger) brother, and I think also think Sam worries for his mom and sister being vulnerable and alone. I am glad Bradley called Dany's behavior irrational because it was. No moral relativism here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, El Guapo said: And? Did Jamie the hero give Olenna a trial before he poisoned her to death. Nope. Did Jon give Janos Slynt a trial before lopping off his head? Nope. Did Jon give Thorne, Olly (a child) and the other conspirators a trial before he had them hung? Nope. Did Ned give the NW deserter a trial before he lopped off his head? Nope. Did Jon or Sansa give Ramsey a trial before sicking wild dogs to eat him alive? Nope. Dany executes two traitors who betrayed their liege and sacked and pillaged Highgarden, after giving them a choice to bend the knee, and even after refusing that, joining the Nights Watch = Crazy bitch, psycho, morally bankrupt, mad queen, etc. Jon executes a man for refusing an assignment = Great leader, great morals, would make a great king. Go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 There was an interesting choice of words in the "After the Thrones" video, where the producers mentioned the Tarlys being "murdered" by Daenerys, not "killed" or "executed". I wonder if Daenerys will simply conclude that the killing of the Tarlys renders Sam an enemy, and therefore, someone she would be better off getting rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krishtotter Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 16 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said: Dany executes two traitors who betrayed their liege and sacked and pillaged Highgarden, after giving them a choice to bend the knee, and even after refusing that, joining the Nights Watch = Crazy bitch, psycho, morally bankrupt, mad queen, etc. Jon executes a man for refusing an assignment = Great leader, great morals, would make a great king. Go figure... This has absolutely nothing to do with gender, if that's what your getting at. Nor does it have anything to do with partiality for Jon. Until very recently, I defend Dany - even during season 7. But I cannot do so any longer, upon reflection. Jon agonizes in retrospect about his decision to execute Olly. "I killed a boy, younger than Bran!" he cries, recognising the moral implication of that choice. Dany shows absolutely no remorse or even kindness towards the grieving Sam. Unlike Jon, she never seems to question her own actions or wrestle with the grey moral areas. She is utterly convinced of her own rightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, Krishtotter said: This has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Jon agonizes in retrospect about his decision to execute Olly. "I killed a boy, younger than Bran!" he cries, recognising the moral implication of that choice. Dany shows absolutely no remorse or even kindness towards the grieving Sam. Jon doesn't agonize in retrospect about his decision to execute Janos Slint, so neither should Dany about two pillagers, and traitors, after they choose death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Did Jon agonize about or show any remorse to killing Alester Throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said: Jon doesn't agonize in retrospect about his decision to execute Janos Slint, so neither should Dany about two pillagers, and traitors, after they choose death. Once again, how were they traitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, OldGimletEye said: Once again, how were they traitors? Same way the Boltons were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 minute ago, D-Shiznit said: Same way the Boltons were. That isn't a very good explanation. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, El Guapo said: Did Jon agonize about or show any remorse to killing Alester Throne? It isn't the same thing, is it. Dany right now is only a claimant to the IT, there is already a queen sitting on the throne, so executing your opponents after the battle can't really be classed as treason. It is executing your opponents who you captured because they wouldn't bend the knee, there is no treason at play there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, OldGimletEye said: That isn't very good explanation. Try again. It is, categorically. Boltons and Frey's temped up with the Lannisters to kill their Lieges, Tarly's teamed up with the Lannisters to kill their Leige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said: Once again, how were they traitors? I suppose she would say in principle that anyone who opposes her claim to the iron Throne is a traitor, and that it is an extreme act of generosity on her part to spare their lives. But, I don't think that's a good start to her reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, D-Shiznit said: Tarly's teamed up with the Lannisters to kill their Leige. So in your view, they are traitors because Dany is automatically their queen? Well that is highly debatable. It would be nice if you'd clarify what you think the term traitor means, so we can properly assess the credibility of your arguments. And I don't recall either of them ever swearing an oath to Dany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: It isn't the same thing, is it. Dany right now is only a claimant to the IT, there is already a queen sitting on the throne, so executing your opponents after the battle can't really be classed as treason. It is executing your opponents who you captured because they wouldn't bend the knee, there is no treason at play there. Daenerys is the Queen recognized as such by House Tyrell. The Tarlys betrayed House Tyrell resulting in the death of their liege lord. Yes they are traitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, SeanF said: I suppose she would say in principle that anyone who opposes her claim to the iron Throne is a traitor, and that it is an extreme act of generosity on her part to spare their lives. But, I don't think that's a good start to her reign. I know what her opinion would be. But, I'm interested in the opinions of rational people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Just now, OldGimletEye said: So in your view, they are traitors because Dany is automatically their queen? Well that is highly debatable. It would be nice if you'd clarify what you think the term traitor means, so we can properly assess the credibility of your arguments. And I don't recall either of them ever swearing an oath to Dany. Their Leige accepted Dany as the Queen of the Reach, so yes she is their queen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 1 minute ago, El Guapo said: Daenerys is the Queen recognized as such by House Tyrell. The Tarlys betrayed House Tyrell resulting in the death of their liege lord. Yes they are traitors. Not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said: Their Leige accepted Dany as the Queen of the Reach, so yes she is their queen. In your view which takes precedence. The oath to the liege lord or crown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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