Redemption characters, do they need to die?

[14ccKemistk]

Ever since (at least) the death of Darth Vader in The Return of the Jedi, american storytelling culture has had a huge problem in dealing with "redemtion characters". I.e. characters that early in the story does something (almost) unforgivable but goes over to the "good side" later on. Such characters are almost always killed off after they've done something heroic at the end. I personally find this a too easy and lazy way of storytelling, freeing the writer and the audience from conflicted feelings if the character really had redeemd himself enough.

There are a handful of GoT characters that I fear will have to suffer this kind of "redemption death", especially Jaime Lannister, Jorah Mormont and Theon Greyjoy.

To me it would be far more interesting if these characters fate was something different. Even something dull and ordinary would be better than death. Theon could get some kind of job at Winterfell, Jaime could just take over Casterly rock and Jorah could go home to Bear Island for example.

What would you prefer, the "default solution" of death for these people or would you like something different?

[Euron III Greyjoy]

I would like some characters to have boring endings, it makes it seem more realistic. I think it will happen more in the books due to there being an abundance of characters. Like Walder Frey for example, I could easily see him dying of old age before anyone gets revenge on him. 

I'm not too sure on Theon, but I think Jaime will probably die in some heroic way that will leave him remembered as a good man, and if Daenerys survives I think Jorah will probably remain at her side as some sort of protector. 

[Kajjo]

2 hours ago, 14ccKemistk said:

There are a handful of GoT characters that I fear will have to suffer this kind of "redemption death", especially Jaime Lannister, Jorah Mormont and Theon Greyjoy.

Yes, your fear seems to be justified. We will see, how inventive DD have been.

55 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I would like some characters to have boring endings, it makes it seem more realistic

Agreed.

On the other side, we have more than enough side characters for "boring" or even "moderate happy" endings. Like Bronn surviving and getting a small castle. I am sure Sam and Gilly will survive. And many more.

But Theon. He is not even really on redemption. He is swaying back and forth so badly, I just despise this character. Her could do some last good deed in the Great war and I were happy. 

I fear for Jamie and would like him to survive with a kind of "boring" ending after being heroic.

 

 

[PrinceRhaegar]

Well, it all depends on how they die and what payoff it will be. It may be "default", but it doesn't mean it can't be good.

[Kajjo]

 

10 minutes ago, PrinceRhaegar said:

Well, it all depends on how they die and what payoff it will be. It may be "default", but it doesn't mean it can't be good.

That's right. I hope for that.

[briantw]

I'm not convinced that Jaime will die.  Theon's arc obviously seems to be leading toward him sacrificing himself fighting for the Starks, but I think Jaime's whole arc was leading to the point where he decides to go North instead of staying with Cercei.  He finally became the knight he always wanted to be growing up before killing Aerys and becoming bitter.  

I also think there's a good chance he's the last hero, and thus if Winterfell falls he'll be one of the survivors.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

a crap load of these characters need to die... it cant just me randoms or it would be unrealistic, even with their numbers they are the underdogs against the WW, so I imagine they will have very little numbers left come the end of the battle and would look silly if all the main guys were still floating about.

[Kajjo]

10 hours ago, briantw said:

He finally became the knight he always wanted to be growing up before killing Aerys and becoming bitter.  

That's right. But a lot of well-known characters will die in the Great War.

6 hours ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

would look silly if all the main guys were still floating about.

 Unfortunately, this is true.

[Bran the Shipper]

I do agree that killing off characters as the end of a redemption arc is overplayed and not always satisfying.  That said I think it can work if it works for the character.  Of the characters in Game of Thrones who are on a redemption arc (which I would consider being Jaime, Theon, and Sandor) I only predict Jaime to die.

Jaime's mistakes that require redemption seems to stem mostly from him doing anything for his family, especially Cersei.  And that he was the wrong person to do the right thing, Aerys needed to die but Jaime vowed to protect him.  Aerys' death isn't something he needs to redeem himself for, it was the right thing to do regardless of how society interprets it.  As for the rest, he has finally broken away from Cersei, so we shouldn't get anymore "the things I do for love" moments. 

I still predict Jaime to die a hero's death, not because he needs to, to finish his arc but because his arc is essentially done and his death could be very influential in the arcs of several of the remaining characters: like his siblings, Brienne, and potentially Dany depending on how it goes down.  Plus he is heroic so him going down like a hero is in character.

Theon I predict will survive because his arc is less about him making a dramatic act of redemption, but more of learning how to forgive yourself after committing an atrocity.  At least that's how I see it.  So I don't see him dying as being the conclusion of his arc, but instead him learning to live with himself.

Sandor seems to do bad things because he is so cynical and considers the world to be terrible and that being awful is the only way to survive.  So for him, his redemption is found by realizing that the world isn't as bad as he thinks, that there is good in it.  But it requires those with the strength to protect it to do so.  So I predict he would live and become a bodyguard, either for an individual, like Sansa, or for a community, like the one we find him in during season 6.

[cirah1712]

On 4/16/2019 at 10:18 PM, 14ccKemistk said:

Ever since (at least) the death of Darth Vader in The Return of the Jedi, american storytelling culture has had a huge problem in dealing with "redemtion characters". I.e. characters that early in the story does something (almost) unforgivable but goes over to the "good side" later on. Such characters are almost always killed off after they've done something heroic at the end. I personally find this a too easy and lazy way of storytelling, freeing the writer and the audience from conflicted feelings if the character really had redeemd himself enough.

There are a handful of GoT characters that I fear will have to suffer this kind of "redemption death", especially Jaime Lannister, Jorah Mormont and Theon Greyjoy.

To me it would be far more interesting if these characters fate was something different. Even something dull and ordinary would be better than death. Theon could get some kind of job at Winterfell, Jaime could just take over Casterly rock and Jorah could go home to Bear Island for example.

What would you prefer, the "default solution" of death for these people or would you like something different?

I think it depends on how the redemptive character dies. Sometimes, if its a brave Irish heroin death, or they were selfless or protected someone they normally wouldn't, then it completes their redemption. That is what I think will happen with Jaime, he will probably die by sacrificing himself to save someone else. It doesn't mean I like it, but its probably what will happen. 

As for Theon, he will die because despite eventually rescuing Yara and having g redeemed himself for betraying the Starks, he does still show cowardly tendencies, and he is not that strong of a fighter, he will most likely die just like a bunch of other characters. Although, they could throw a curveball and have him survive, and be brave, and maybe even save someone else's life. Thus completing his redemption. 

And Jorah, well, he will die because despite being a great fighter, I think he is getting old and he's getting tired. He hasn't been in a big battle in years, and this will be the biggest one yet. I just think he won't be able to keep up with the strength and speed of the Army of the Dead. As for his redemptive arc, its nothing compared to the other two, so ut shouldn't be too unsatisfying.

[Brightstar_]

On 4/17/2019 at 1:32 AM, Kajjo said:

Yes, your fear seems to be justified. We will see, how inventive DD have been.

Agreed.

On the other side, we have more than enough side characters for "boring" or even "moderate happy" endings. Like Bronn surviving and getting a small castle. I am sure Sam and Gilly will survive. And many more.

But Theon. He is not even really on redemption. He is swaying back and forth so badly, I just despise this character. Her could do some last good deed in the Great war and I were happy. 

I fear for Jamie and would like him to survive with a kind of "boring" ending after being heroic.

 

 

For some reason I'm fairly certain the show will make him choose not to betray Jaime or Tyrion and that will end up costing him his life. I don't dislike this idea either, it's pretty fitting GOT stuff, being honourable gets you killed and whatnot.