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Krishtotter

Remorseful Jaime, Unrepentant Dany

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How could Dany show relaxed at all. She's constantly reminded that North people don't like outsiders. She could have doubts about their obedience. Can Sam be trusted if he gets that emotional. To her Jon as a leader doesn't look very strong when some of his people have chose not to follow him, even though he bent the knee. His sister does not show respect to their Queen. When she learns about Jon's parents, would she even think it was a conspiracy to have her fall in love with Jon.

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8 hours ago, Krishtotter said:

Yep, even I concede this (as I noted earlier).

She is not yet at the tipping point where the Targaryen coin has irreversibly flipped and could, thus, be kept on a more even keel if she is influenced by those three in particular. I'm not saying she's passed the point of no return. 

But I do think she is getting near that tipping point and the omens aren't looking good based on some of her past actions.

Jon is the only thing keeping her from tipping. That's why his parentage reveal and Sam's treason is so explosive. 

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9 hours ago, Pandean said:

What color do they call it? Radioactive?

 

Oh yeah, definitely those two bands for sure. I'm just imagining this scene back when me and my sister were kids and mom denied my sister something so she blasted Last Resort while screaming the lyrics and it was probably the most emo thing ever

Oh and when he's angry at Ned

'YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD!!!'

Ned: *painful expression*

I never got into the whole emo thing tbh, I do love both those bands though, a couple of my friends sarcastically call me little miss sunshine for my music taste :P.

Now I just want to see Angel and Spike battling the night king complete with dragons :lmao:, maybe hold the dragons, they don’t like fire

much either, undead celebrity death match!.

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8 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I don't think Game of Thrones chronology is that easy.

For now, as you say. Whether she is good for him depends on which side of her wins out - the gentle hearted Dany (which we saw early on), or the arrogant, cold Dany. She is a complex character.

 

Jaime's story arc is one of the most interesting in the show, and I hope will end with him repenting of pushing Bran out the window and becoming a truly honorable man. I think his walking away from Cersei at the end of S7 solidified the final leg of his redemption journey.

It is harder to say with Dany. She could still snap out of it with people like Jon, Tyrion and Varys influencing her. (If Varys does still exhibit influence over her.)

You can't expect a monarch (presumed) to show remorse for executing "traitors", which is generally the punishment for such a crime, but Dany certainly could have shown sympathy when she delivered the news to Sam.

Yeah I agree about Jamie, his character has changed so much and I’m glad he walked away from his sister, he’s one of the characters I most want to survive.

I feel kind of conflicted about Dany because I want her house to be back on the throne but I’m not liking her that much at the moment, she’s nowhere near as awesome as her ancestors like Visenya, Baela or Daena.

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I'd be disappointed if there was a "Jon and Dany happily live forever" ending. After all this violence, blood shedding and scheming there has to be a tragic end to most characters. I could only buy some happy ending in form of a young baby as a promise of hope for a better future. At the moment I can't see any existing characters forming a couple and taking the throne together, everything being fine.

Some people root for Sansa and Jon ending together. I don't see any vibes for that, but maybe it was not meant to show, who knows, and they build tension between them in last episodes. But still, I don't think so.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Deminelle said:

I'd be disappointed if there was a "Jon and Dany happily live forever" ending. After all this violence, blood shedding and scheming there has to be a tragic end to most characters. I could only buy some happy ending in form of a young baby as a promise of hope for a better future. At the moment I can't see any existing characters forming a couple and taking the throne together, everything being fine.

Some people root for Sansa and Jon ending together. I don't see any vibes for that, but maybe it was not meant to show, who knows, and they build tension between them in last episodes. But still, I don't think so.

I'm not a Jonsa shipper myself either but I can understand why some people are. 

If there are any subconscious romantic stirrings or mutual attraction, they would obviously be deeply subdued by both on account of the cultural aversion for incest. This could change when Jon discovers that Dany is in fact his aunt, an aunt who is more akin to a sister genetically as a result of Targaryen inbreeding, whereas Sansa is actually his first cousin - which is normal marriage material in Westeros.

I've always thought that there is a certain 'tension' both characters when acting that makes me very interested in their relationship. Whilst Jon and Arya have a quite clearly 'big brother, little sister' bond - the Jon - Sansa dynamic is different, even to the extent of hugging each other in a different manner. 

That said, Jon was raised with Sansa as his sister - which would make it very strange for him, I imagine, to ever see her in romantic way. 

I know Dany-fans will proverbially stone me for saying this, but I really do like Sansa and how she has developed from a naive, spoilt 'posh' girl into a shrewd, charismatic woman (made steely on account of the horrors she has had to bear) who commands the love of her people in the North courtesy of her effective leadership skills. She doesn't rule by the threat of fear like Dany.

Edited by Krishtotter

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3 hours ago, Krishtotter said:

I'm not a Jonsa shipper myself either but I can understand why some people are. 

If there are any subconscious romantic stirrings or mutual attraction, they would obviously be deeply subdued by both on account of the cultural aversion for incest. This could change when Jon discovers that Dany is in fact his aunt, an aunt who is more akin to a sister genetically as a result of Targaryen inbreeding, whereas Sansa is actually his first cousin - which is normal marriage material in Westeros.

I've always thought that there is a certain 'tension' both characters when acting that makes me very interested in their relationship. Whilst Jon and Arya have a quite clearly 'big brother, little sister' bond - the Jon - Sansa dynamic is different, even to the extent of hugging each other in a different manner. 

That said, Jon was raised with Sansa as his sister - which would make it very strange for him, I imagine, to ever see her in romantic way. 

I know Dany-fans will proverbially stone me for saying this, but I really do like Sansa and how she has developed from a naive, spoilt 'posh' girl into a shrewd, charismatic woman (made steely on account of the horrors she has had to bear) who commands the love of her people in the North courtesy of her effective leadership skills. She doesn't rule by the threat of fear like Dany.

That's very true about their dynamic. Jon and Sansa's alleged sisterhood made me think of them as nothing else but siblings, they  can't have considered romance as an option either. Of course, some fans already saw that possibility.

Jon and Sansa have to look at each other in different eyes now, whatever feelings they had earlier comes in different light now. Arya telling Jon, how smart Sansa now is, is one way of leading Jon to look at her with more respect. I also like the way Sansa has grown. And like you said, Dany is much harder.

This will be intriguing. The women don't know it yet but Sansa is an actual threat to Dany. The tension between them is clear.

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13 hours ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

Yeah I agree about Jamie, his character has changed so much and I’m glad he walked away from his sister, he’s one of the characters I most want to survive.

I feel kind of conflicted about Dany because I want her house to be back on the throne but I’m not liking her that much at the moment, she’s nowhere near as awesome as her ancestors like Visenya, Baela or Daena.

i want to jamie to survive too.

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:36 PM, lakin1013 said:

I don't think any decent guy should date a girl who literally has 2 human beings incinerated, burned alive, at her command. 

Jon executed a child. What is so different about that? Why was it honorable to do it?

I don't understand the outrage the Tarlys' execution causes in some people. They refused to bend the knee, refused to take the black, refused to submit to her. If anyone had questioned Jon that way, would he have acted so differently?  Oh, wait.

He didn't act differently. In the books, he beheaded Janos Slynt, in the show, he did it to Olly and Alliser Throne. He also took a part in the execution of Mance Raider, let's not forget that.

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Just now, Nymeria Stone said:

Jon executed a child. What is so different about that? Why was it honorable to do it?

I don't understand the outrage the Tarlys' execution causes in some people. They refused to bend the knee, refused to take the black, refused to submit to her. If anyone had questioned Jon that way, would he have acted so differently?  Oh, wait.

He didn't act differently. In the books, he beheaded Janos Slynt, in the show, he did it to Olly and Alliser Throne. He also took a part in the execution of Mance Raider, let's not forget that.

Because the people you named were guilty of trying to murder someone. Hanging the child is hard to take but in that society, there was nothing to do with a murderous child - no therapy, no juvenile courts, and no pediatric psychiatrists.  That is quite a bit different from having people burned alive because they would not kneel.  Dany jumps to the most extreme decision without considering any moderate steps. 

You are misleading on Mance's death.  John extended mercy to Mance, and ended his suffering.  Actually, Mance was also being burned alive so now we have a clear picture what Jon would do and what Dany would do.  

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

That is quite a bit different from having people burned alive because they would not kneel.

This is a massive whitewash of Randyll Tarly and his actions during S7. 

Let's forget for a second that he was a xenophobic, racist asshat that threatened to kill his eldest son for no good reason.

He's a enemy commander who betrayed his liege lord and attacked and killed one of Daenerys allies. 
He was captured after a battle (if he'd died during the battle we wouldn't have this conversation t begin with) and brought to Daenerys, who gave him several options, despite him insulting her and her second-in-command: 
- Kneel, submit and receive a pardon. (A pretty common occurrence in Westeros, but one that far from every leader would allow their defeated enemy, especially one who has done so much harm as Randyll.)
- Take the black and go into exile.
- Execution. 

Given what he had done, his options where more than fair.
Daenerys didn't execute him because he didn't kneel.
She executed him for what he had done previously in the war, and for being a high-ranking enemy who defied her by insulting her and by turning down all the choices she gave him.

Dickons plot-device-death is another story, but ultimately was caused by himself.
 

1 hour ago, Nymeria Stone said:

I don't understand the outrage the Tarlys' execution causes in some people. 

Because this is more or less the only morally questionable/"bad" thing she did in S7.
This means that if you hate Daenerys, this is the only straw you can grasp at, if you want to try and make a case about how "evil, mad and cruel" she is/becoming. 

Olenna was a fan favorite, but it's amazing how fast people just gloss over the fact that she died because of Randyll's betrayal.
"Screw that old wench, look how evil Daenerys is for executing two of her captured enemies during wartime!"
 

Edited by MinscS2

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16 hours ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

I feel kind of conflicted about Dany because I want her house to be back on the throne but I’m not liking her that much at the moment, she’s nowhere near as awesome as her ancestors like Visenya, Baela or Daena.

I'm not crazy about Targaryens in general. They are a mixed bag. Maybe if they quit with the incest that makes them go crazy.

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4 hours ago, Nymeria Stone said:

Jon executed a child. What is so different about that? Why was it honorable to do it?

I don't understand the outrage the Tarlys' execution causes in some people. They refused to bend the knee, refused to take the black, refused to submit to her. If anyone had questioned Jon that way, would he have acted so differently?  Oh, wait.

He didn't act differently. In the books, he beheaded Janos Slynt, in the show, he did it to Olly and Alliser Throne. He also took a part in the execution of Mance Raider, let's not forget that.

the outrage is how she did it and why.  he beheaded janos slynt in the show too. in the books wasnt  janos there when ned died? he hanged olly and throne not beheaded them. he was trying to talk mance into bending the knee and when he was burning jon put an arrow through his heart. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I'm not crazy about Targaryens in general. They are a mixed bag. Maybe if they quit with the incest that makes them go crazy.

yeah dany is the  only one thats not too bad. she just didnt always think things through.  

Edited by princess brittany

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6 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Because the people you named were guilty of trying to murder someone. Hanging the child is hard to take but in that society, there was nothing to do with a murderous child - no therapy, no juvenile courts, and no pediatric psychiatrists. 

Weren't Randyll and Dickon guilty of treason? Their actions led to Olenna's death, remember? And as I said, they refused to submit to her, refused to take the black; they were given options.  You argue that what Jon did was socially acceptable, but in that society, what Dany did was completely acceptable also.

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10 hours ago, Nymeria Stone said:

Jon executed a child. What is so different about that? Why was it honorable to do it?

I don't understand the outrage the Tarlys' execution causes in some people. They refused to bend the knee, refused to take the black, refused to submit to her. If anyone had questioned Jon that way, would he have acted so differently?  Oh, wait.

He didn't act differently. In the books, he beheaded Janos Slynt, in the show, he did it to Olly and Alliser Throne. He also took a part in the execution of Mance Raider, let's not forget that.

But, everyone hated Olly.  There were groups on social media, who thought Jon was far too lenient.  Some favoured burning Olly, others flaying, still others getting Melisandre to revive him, so he could be hanged all over again.

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8 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I'm not crazy about Targaryens in general. They are a mixed bag. Maybe if they quit with the incest that makes them go crazy.

I like them, overall they’re my favourite house but I’m really not so fond of Dany.

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4 hours ago, Nymeria Stone said:

Weren't Randyll and Dickon guilty of treason? Their actions led to Olenna's death, remember? And as I said, they refused to submit to her, refused to take the black; they were given options.  You argue that what Jon did was socially acceptable, but in that society, what Dany did was completely acceptable also.

Yeah the cases are very similar, but the fans reactions are remarkably different.

Jon executing 3 men and a boy who broke their vows and killed someone they had sworn allegiance too? 
No one bats an eye.

Daenerys executing 2 men who broke their vows and killed someone they had sworn allegiance too?
"Daenerys is evil and crazy omfg!"

47 minutes ago, SeanF said:

But, everyone hated Olly. 

And everyone loved Randyll?

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1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

Yeah the cases are very similar, but the fans reactions are remarkably different.

Jon executing 3 men and a boy who broke their vows and killed someone they had sworn allegiance too? 
No one bats an eye.

Daenerys executing 2 men who broke their vows and killed someone they had sworn allegiance too?
"Daenerys is evil and crazy omfg!"

And everyone loved Randyll?

More than they loved Olly, at any rate.

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