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Jon II: What if Jon had been in the same situation as Bran?


Angel Eyes

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In Jon II, while Bran is lying comatose (and revealed to be paralyzed), Catelyn tells Jon that "it should have been you". This statement has colored a lot of perceptions of Catelyn, her character fixed as a monster and the worst character. I mean, how could you say that to someone, that they should have been pushed out of a tower and rendered comatose?

But what if Jon had been in the same position as Bran? How would the rest of the Starks have responded? 

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Ned would have been sad (maybe really angry too).

Cat would have been torn, she would have been happy that he was gone (at least in the short-term), but if I’ve read her chapters right, she would have been startled and bothered by herself for feeling joy over such a terrible thing happening. She doesn’t really dislike Jon, just what Jon represents.

Robb would have been really really sad, and really angry.

Sansa would probably be a little sad, but mostly indifferent.

Arya would have been really really sad and really really angry.

Bran would have been really sad, and possibly try to investigate (most likely leading to a different result).

Rickon would be sad because all the others would also be sad.

Theon would have been really sad, and really really angry.

Tyrion would probably be a little sad too, his opinion on Jon at this point of time is kinda unclear.

Joffrey would act really shitty about it, but I doubt he would do the same things.

Everybody else would be indifferent for the most part, some bastard fell from a tower, and might or might not die, why should they care?

I originally wrote a lot more on how we wouldn’t be able to tell what the ramifications of changing such a monumental event would be. But I felt it was a little too spoilery and went too far from the question at hand.

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  • 4 months later...
On 4/17/2019 at 7:21 AM, Victar Pyke said:

Ned would have been sad (maybe really angry too).

Cat would have been torn, she would have been happy that he was gone (at least in the short-term), but if I’ve read her chapters right, she would have been startled and bothered by herself for feeling joy over such a terrible thing happening. She doesn’t really dislike Jon, just what Jon represents.

Robb would have been really really sad, and really angry.

Sansa would probably be a little sad, but mostly indifferent.

Arya would have been really really sad and really really angry.

Bran would have been really sad, and possibly try to investigate (most likely leading to a different result).

Rickon would be sad because all the others would also be sad.

Theon would have been really sad, and really really angry.

Tyrion would probably be a little sad too, his opinion on Jon at this point of time is kinda unclear.

Joffrey would act really shitty about it, but I doubt he would do the same things.

Everybody else would be indifferent for the most part, some bastard fell from a tower, and might or might not die, why should they care?

I originally wrote a lot more on how we wouldn’t be able to tell what the ramifications of changing such a monumental event would be. But I felt it was a little too spoilery and went too far from the question at hand.

Well, I had picked this moment because it is a pivotal crux of the way people perceive Catelyn, for telling him he should have been pushed out a window by an incestuous Kingslayer. For some it's a Moral Event Horizon and from that point she's perceived as an absolute jerk. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/17/2019 at 4:17 AM, Angel Eyes said:

In Jon II, while Bran is lying comatose (and revealed to be paralyzed), Catelyn tells Jon that "it should have been you". This statement has colored a lot of perceptions of Catelyn, her character fixed as a monster and the worst character. I mean, how could you say that to someone, that they should have been pushed out of a tower and rendered comatose?

But what if Jon had been in the same position as Bran? How would the rest of the Starks have responded? 

I think this line by Catelyn is actually GRRM.

Jon picks Ghost, or vice versa, and Ghost is the only one of the direwolf puppies who has opened his eyes already. And with his white fur and red eyes Ghost is "belonging to the old gods".

So from a narrative point of view Jon should have fallen, gotten paralyzed and ended up in a tree.

And the son of ice (Lyanna) and fire (Rhaegar) reigning Westeros as a god-like king in the end would have made more sense then what we got from the tv show. 

But maybe it was too cliché for GRRM.

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  • 4 months later...
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I often wonder how Catelyn would have responded as well. She is actually one of my lesser favorites as far as POV’s go. I feel like she is extremely short sighted and not very tolerant. I think if jon had been the one in the coma she would have waited for everyone to leave for Kong’s Landing and moved jon to lesser quarters, kept him out of the way, and stood aside whilst the cats paw with the knife case in and finished the job. It’s a crappy thing to say, but that’s what I believe. Her hate for him ran deep. In AAFC, even the BlackFish speaks about how Catelyn mistrusted him. So she was vocal about it. 

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