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Melisha

King or Queen?

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In Episode 1 IJon Snow got the revelation that he is the true king of the Seven kingdoms, but he didn't like that it seems like.  

Meantime Danaerys is very sure of her will to be the queen. And she is strong, fierce and sometimes tearing and dreadful as in the case of Sam´s father and brother, who refused to swear their trust to her, even though she gave them the choice. The kings and queens of GOT are watching their power with a tradition of killing so I guess thats the way it goes? 

Anyways, a lot of us are still routing for Danaerys to be the queen! She is kind of an underdog, who still believed in herself through her hardship and thats admirable. As a fan I made a tribute son to Danaerys :) A hero song here with lyrics and a collage of scenes from Danaerys. Its not monetized so no ADS! Listen and tell me what you think! Do you think Danaerys should be the true ruler of the seven kingdoms/queendoms? :) 

 

"I spent my life in foreign lands. So many men have tried to kill me, I don't remember all their names. I have been sold like a broodmare. I've been chained and betrayed, raped and defiled. Do you know what kept me standing through all those years in exile? Faith. Not in any gods. Not in myths and legends. In myself. In Daenerys Targaryen. The world hadn't seen a dragon in centuries until my children were born. The Dothraki hadn't crossed the sea. Any sea. They did for me. I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and I will." - Daenerys Targaryen

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7 hours ago, Melisha said:

Anyways, a lot of us are still routing for Danaerys to be the queen!

Really? Why?

"The Song of Ice and Fire" is surely not about Fire winning over Ice. Wouldn't that be very one-sided? I believe, it is about Fire and Ice in balance or quenching each other. Fire clearly winning the throne and Ice losing would be disappointing and bland.

7 hours ago, Melisha said:

who still believed in herself through her hardship and thats admirable

It's fine that Daenerys believes in herself, but her ruthlessness is not so fine.

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Really? Why?

"The Song of Ice and Fire" is surely not about Fire winning over Ice. Wouldn't that be very one-sided? I believe, it is about Fire and Ice in balance or quenching each other. Fire clearly winning the throne and Ice losing would be disappointing and bland.

It's fine that Daenerys believes in herself, but her ruthlessness is not so fine.

“I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.” ~GRRM

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1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

“I mean... Fire is love, fire is passion, fire is sexual ardor and all of these things. Ice is betrayal, ice is revenge, ice is… you know, that kind of cold inhumanity and all that stuff is being played out in the books.” ~GRRM

Strange quote, I didn't know that one. 

The story does not play by that lines, though. Mad King, Daenerys' cruelty, dragons as weapons of mass destruction... while the Starks represent honor, loyalty, family, duty. How does that run together with the quote?

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7 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Strange quote, I didn't know that one. 

The story does not play by that lines, though. Mad King, Daenerys' cruelty, dragons as weapons of mass destruction... while the Starks represent honor, loyalty, family, duty. How does that run together with the quote?

It’s about this Robert Frost poem that at least somewhat inspired GRRM.

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

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1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

It’s about this Robert Frost poem that at least somewhat inspired GRRM.

Thanks. Interesting.

I still hold my view, though, that the Song of Ice and Fire is about both. 

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It doesn't really bother me either way if she becomes Queen. To be honest I think it would be a better ending if there was no Iron Throne by the end of the show. Also, I hardly think Daenerys is an underdog. Sure her luck was a bit shitty at the start of Season 1, but then she hatched dragons, conquered Astapor, Yukai, and Meereen, where she then ruled as Queen, then came back to Westeros with one of the largest armies ever. I'd consider someone like Jon Snow to be an underdog. 

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41 minutes ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

there was no Iron Throne by the end of the show.

Agreed. That is my guess anyway. The throne needs to get destroyed.

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I think Dany will be a discussion for literature classes in years to come - she can be viewed as a villain or a hero, in the same situation, based on the views and values of each character/reader.  I think she is fascinating, but I personally question how good of a queen she will be.  I think she's either in a Westerosi politics learning curve now, or pulled too deep into her own hubris/ego - we won't know until the end of the series, and even though the show will probably have a black and white view of her, I think GRRM will be a lot more complex.  

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There is so much in the history about the catastrophic events that happened because Westeros was unable to accept the idea of a woman ruling. I think that has to factor into the ending.

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11 minutes ago, Wildling Queen said:

There is so much in the history about the catastrophic events that happened because Westeros was unable to accept the idea of a woman ruling. I think that has to factor into the ending.

A woman is currently ruling Westeros...

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

A woman is currently ruling Westeros...

Not because the people of Westeros accepted her as their ruler. She was the only option. I'm referring pretty specifically to a woman being in the line of Targaryen succession and of accepting a woman as ruler when there's a male option. If we end with a man on the throne after kicking Cersei out, it's pretty much saying that all that history boiled down to, "well, we tried having a woman as queen, that was a disaster. We needed a man to fix this mess."

Edited by Wildling Queen

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On 4/17/2019 at 12:34 PM, Kajjo said:

Really? Why?

As much as I dislike Dany I believe she has far better claim.

Besides I believe that no person of merit should be put aside because of gender.

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1 hour ago, TwiceBorn said:

As much as I dislike Dany I believe she has far better claim.

Besides I believe that no person of merit should be put aside because of gender.

How? By their laws she does not. Only by right of conquest (Aegon I, Robert I) would this be true (again going by their laws).

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1 hour ago, TwiceBorn said:

As much as I dislike Dany I believe she has far better claim.

Besides I believe that no person of merit should be put aside because of gender.

On 4/17/2019 at 9:52 AM, Wildling Queen said:

I'm referring pretty specifically to a woman being in the line of Targaryen succession and of accepting a woman as ruler when there's a male option.

While I agree that merit and not gender should determine who is best fit, Dany does not have the better claim, and not because she's a woman. Jon being the son of the heir puts him in line before the siblings of the heir. So she is not being put aside simply in favor of a male option.

On 4/17/2019 at 9:52 AM, Wildling Queen said:

If we end with a man on the throne after kicking Cersei out, it's pretty much saying that all that history boiled down to, "well, we tried having a woman as queen, that was a disaster. We needed a man to fix this mess."

It's not necessarily because a woman was ruling though... it was because Cersei was queen that made it such a disaster. 

 

I don't have any bad feelings towards Dany, and would ultimately be fine if the show ends with her on the throne. However, I do think she has competing and conflicting ideals, and I think this would make her a more unpredictable ruler compared to Jon. On the one hand she promotes freedom from oppression and speaks of breaking the wheel and making fundamental changes as a ruler. Yet at the same time she has a sense of entitlement to the throne, wants unflagging loyalty and obedience from her subjects and will use brute force to obtain it if necessary. She seems to want to be two queens that are ultimately incompatible: a benevolent one who makes the world a better place, and one who rules with an iron fist (which essentially maintains the status quo). She also has a tendency to become defensive and hostile when she is challenged or feeling unsure of herself and her position. These qualities and her ambivalence regarding her ruling style make her seem like a rather unpredictable ruler to me. 

Apart from eliminating the iron throne altogether, the ideal situation would be for them to rule together as equals. Jon and Dany would balance each other out nicely. Unfortunately I foresee one of them dying before this ends, so this is unlikely to happen.

 

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Posted (edited)

Queen, I really like John but only now he became aware of his identity. Dani’s has been fighting for this years now, trying to train herself to be a ruler, to get the army and to be different than the others. I understand why it’s devastating for her to see her dream being turned to ashes. Of course every queen needs a king and vice versa. 

Edited by Nightwish

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18 minutes ago, a girl knows nothing said:

Dany does not have the better claim, and not because she's a woman. Jon being the son of the heir puts him in line before the siblings of the heir. So she is not being put aside simply in favor of a male option.

Exactly. That’s all I have to add. 

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1 hour ago, a girl knows nothing said:

While I agree that merit and not gender should determine who is best fit, Dany does not have the better claim, and not because she's a woman. Jon being the son of the heir puts him in line before the siblings of the heir. So she is not being put aside simply in favor of a male option.

It's not necessarily because a woman was ruling though... it was because Cersei was queen that made it such a disaster. 

 

I don't have any bad feelings towards Dany, and would ultimately be fine if the show ends with her on the throne. However, I do think she has competing and conflicting ideals, and I think this would make her a more unpredictable ruler compared to Jon. On the one hand she promotes freedom from oppression and speaks of breaking the wheel and making fundamental changes as a ruler. Yet at the same time she has a sense of entitlement to the throne, wants unflagging loyalty and obedience from her subjects and will use brute force to obtain it if necessary. She seems to want to be two queens that are ultimately incompatible: a benevolent one who makes the world a better place, and one who rules with an iron fist (which essentially maintains the status quo). She also has a tendency to become defensive and hostile when she is challenged or feeling unsure of herself and her position. These qualities and her ambivalence regarding her ruling style make her seem like a rather unpredictable ruler to me. 

Apart from eliminating the iron throne altogether, the ideal situation would be for them to rule together as equals. Jon and Dany would balance each other out nicely. Unfortunately I foresee one of them dying before this ends, so this is unlikely to happen.

 

i agree they should both rule together. both of them dyiing seems likely but you never know 

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12 hours ago, TwiceBorn said:

Besides I believe that no person of merit should be put aside because of gender.

You misunderstand the succession of primogeniture.

Rhaegar was the firstborn. He and his children are first in the order of succession. Even without male primogeniture this would be the case.

In modern British monarchy Prince Charles, then Prince William and his children are in succession. Prince Williams daughter is in front of Prince Harry. England has nowadays a gender-neutral primogeniture. If you would apply the modern English rules to Westreros, Jon Snow would be in front of Daenerys, too.

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1 person ruling over everyone is not breaking the wheel, no matter your intentions and regardless of your gender.

You break the wheel, by destroying the Iron Throne. I don't think anyone should sit on that throne, and I don't think anyone will.

Plus, not only does Jon have the better claim, which Dany doesn't have anymore, Jon would make a far better ruler as well. Though if I could pick 1 person to sit on the Iron Throne, Sansa would be the most deserving one based on her actions.Though none of this is gonna matter anyway as no one is going to sit on that throne. It's so obvious.

And how in the world is Dany an underdog ? She is the very opposite of that.

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