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Melisha

King or Queen?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

1 person ruling over everyone is not breaking the wheel, no matter your intentions and regardless of your gender.

You break the wheel, by destroying the Iron Throne. I don't think anyone should sit on that throne, and I don't think anyone will.

Plus, not only does Jon have the better claim, which Dany doesn't have anymore, Jon would make a far better ruler as well. Though if I could pick 1 person to sit on the Iron Throne, Sansa would be the most deserving one based on her actions.Though none of this is gonna matter anyway as no one is going to sit on that throne. It's so obvious.

And how in the world is Dany an underdog ? She is the very opposite of that.

ASOIAF and loosely based on the War of the Roses which ended with a centralization of power to the monarchy, and an end to feudalism since so many great houses were destroyed during the war. It is more probable to end in a similar way.

Edited by longest night

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Posted (edited)

Sam said it best. Would she put aside her crown to save her people? Jon doesn’t want to be king. He didn’t want to be king of the north. He didn’t want to be lord commander of the nights watch. The people chose him because he is a good leader. 

Danny’s lover said it best. Daenerys Storm Born, you are a conqueror. She is very good at conquering, but not good at leading for the long term. She succeeds and then she is bored and ready to conquer again. In spite of her loyal followers most of the people don’t love her. The only people she could set free were slaves. She can’t free the 7 kingdoms from anything. She is just another tyrant. Well she might free them from the white walkers. But that may be her true purpose.

please don’t think I dislike Danny. I love her and her whole story line. She is very powerful. I am just looking at how she contrasts Jon.

Edited by Stark_in_Winterfell

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3 hours ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Sam said it best. Would she put aside her crown to save her people? Jon doesn’t want to be king. He didn’t want to be king of the north. He didn’t want to be lord commander of the nights watch. The people chose him because he is a good leader. 

Danny’s lover said it best. Daenerys Storm Born, you are a conqueror. She is very good at conquering, but not good at leading for the long term. She succeeds and then she is bored and ready to conquer again. In spite of her loyal followers most of the people don’t love her. The only people she could set free were slaves. She can’t free the 7 kingdoms from anything. She is just another tyrant. Well she might free them from the white walkers. But that may be her true purpose.

please don’t think I dislike Danny. I love her and her whole story line. She is very powerful. I am just looking at how she contrasts Jon.

i agree. 

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On 4/24/2019 at 3:07 PM, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

Sam said it best. Would she put aside her crown to save her people? Jon doesn’t want to be king. He didn’t want to be king of the north. He didn’t want to be lord commander of the nights watch. The people chose him because he is a good leader. 

Danny’s lover said it best. Daenerys Storm Born, you are a conqueror. She is very good at conquering, but not good at leading for the long term. She succeeds and then she is bored and ready to conquer again. In spite of her loyal followers most of the people don’t love her. The only people she could set free were slaves. She can’t free the 7 kingdoms from anything. She is just another tyrant. Well she might free them from the white walkers. But that may be her true purpose.

please don’t think I dislike Danny. I love her and her whole story line. She is very powerful. I am just looking at how she contrasts Jon.

Jon tries to be a good leader he’s not always successful. 

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On 4/24/2019 at 12:40 AM, nyser1 said:

How? By their laws she does not. Only by right of conquest (Aegon I, Robert I) would this be true (again going by their laws).

False. By their (Targaryen) laws she does.

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22 minutes ago, TwiceBorn said:

False. By their (Targaryen) laws she does.

The Targaryens were overthrown buddy...not to mention ALL MALES came before females in their succession...read the books.

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On 4/24/2019 at 1:14 AM, a girl knows nothing said:

While I agree that merit and not gender should determine who is best fit, Dany does not have the better claim, and not because she's a woman. Jon being the son of the heir puts him in line before the siblings of the heir. So she is not being put aside simply in favor of a male option.

It's not necessarily because a woman was ruling though... it was because Cersei was queen that made it such a disaster.

Rhaenys was put aside in favor of Viserys I EXACTLY because of her gender. She was a daughter of the heir (Aemon) - so what? Viserys on the other hand was a son of Balelon. Both of Baleon's sisters: Daella and Alyssa (his wife) came before him. And were put aside as well.

Viserys however named his daughter Rhaenyra his heir. Her rule was a disaster (not her fault mostly though) so smallfolk in Westeros have superstitions against women on the throne. This reaches back to Maegor the Cruel as Rhaenyra was often (unjustfully) called "Maegor with tits" and "Maegor tits" is a popular expression in Seven Kingdoms. It started with Rhaena, who had to step down (and her daughters were excluded too) because of Megor raped her into being his Black Bride.

Lets face it: there was a bunch of women who should have sat on the Iron Throne but they were put aside because of gender.

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6 minutes ago, nyser1 said:

The Targaryens were overthrown buddy...not to mention ALL MALES came before females in their succession...read the books.

Book Baratheons are descended from Rhaelle Targaryen, which gives Robert a claim to the Iron Throne. I believe he mentions this in series as well.

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12 minutes ago, TwiceBorn said:

Book Baratheons are descended from Rhaelle Targaryen, which gives Robert a claim to the Iron Throne. I believe he mentions this in series as well.

This is true. However, it is used to reinforce his claim. He took the crown via force. That just adds a little reinforcement as to why not Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, or Tywin Lannister for King.

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On 4/24/2019 at 12:18 PM, Kajjo said:

You misunderstand the succession of primogeniture.

Rhaegar was the firstborn. He and his children are first in the order of succession. Even without male primogeniture this would be the case.

In modern British monarchy Prince Charles, then Prince William and his children are in succession. Prince Williams daughter is in front of Prince Harry. England has nowadays a gender-neutral primogeniture. If you would apply the modern English rules to Westreros, Jon Snow would be in front of Daenerys, too.

Visenya not Aegon I.
Rhaena not Aegon.
Rhalla not Jaehaerys I.
Rhaenys not Baleon.
Daella not Baleon.
Alyssa not Baleon.
Laena, Rhaena ANYONE BUT BALEON even Aemma!

But they marry Aemma to Viserys truly a coincidence without precedence.

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