Waterfall scene - Dany & Jon

[D-Shiznit]

I was watching that scene again, and if you notice when Dany is looking at the waterfall, and saying how beautiful it is, and how they could just stay here, during that whole exchange Jon is strictly just looking at her the whole time, and completely ignoring the fall or anything else. His eyes are completely fixated on her. That guy is categorically in love with her, even more so than he ever was with Ygritte.

[LadyNoOne]

Hi, yes I did notice this It reminded me of Jon and Ygritte in the cave, and when she said something like "We should have never left that cave". 

I agree also that Jon is far more in love with Dany than he ever was with Ygritte.   Poor Ygritte, but as it is said by many people in the show all over their world (also true of ours, I think): you cannot choose who you love.   Just ask Jaime

[Bambi]

Its strange you point that out, because I absolutely do NOT feel the chemistry between the two. I mean I get the gestures when the actors are "acting" their love, but it feels acting all the same. Jon's bonding with Ygritte looked more genuine (obviously).  

[L’Age d’or]

2 minutes ago, Bambi said:

Its strange you point that out, because I absolutely do NOT feel the chemistry between the two. I mean I get the gestures when the actors are "acting" their love, but it feels acting all the same. Jon's bonding with Ygritte looked more genuine (obviously).  

I think it was because the bond was real, the two ended up marrying each other.

[Kajjo]

5 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

I agree also that Jon is far more in love with Dany than he ever was with Ygritte

I am not so sure, but yes, maybe. The relation to Ygritte was very complicated and burdened, he was utterly unexperienced, the situation was not good for living out a fresh love. She seduced him and they never really could enjoy some days just for themselves.

6 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

in love with

PSYCHOLOGY

As a non-native speaker I always wonder about English subsumes infatuation/falling in love vs. being in love in one simple word. These are entirely different feeling, physiologically and emotionally.

Freshly "falling in love" is about a euphoric feeling, about excitement, exaggerating positive traits, ignoring negative traits, about butteflies in one's stomach, about thinking about the other all the time.  Infatuation is volatile and ends after some weeks or latest after several months. These are accompanied with measurable physiological reactions, hormone levels and so on. In essence, it's exciting.

"Loving each other" is about deep affection, a warm feeling of safety and belonging, the other being very important for your life. Deep love is something that needs years to grow, it needs a foundation to build on. In essence, it feels calm and safe.

In real-life, people can fall in love and after some weeks it's all over. As soon as the infatuation decreases, you see flaws and problems and not every infatuation ("falling in love") ends in love ("being in love"). Other languages have different everyday-words for these emotions, e.g. "Verliebtheit" vs. "Liebe" in German. 

BACK TO THE SHOW

Jon is infatuated with Daenerys. They are freshly fallen in love and the show depicted this realistically to happen after a big adventure. This happens very often in real life, too.

Jon looks at Daenerys and cannot get enough. He wants her badly in the moment. Infatuation blinds his mind. Real-life.

 

[Kajjo]

10 minutes ago, Bambi said:

because I absolutely do NOT feel the chemistry between the two. I mean I get the gestures when the actors are "acting" their love, but it feels acting all the same

I agree. It doesn't feel so passionate. Bad actors, one could argue.

[D-Shiznit]

18 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

Hi, yes I did notice this It reminded me of Jon and Ygritte in the cave, and when she said something like "We should have never left that cave". 

I agree also that Jon is far more in love with Dany than he ever was with Ygritte.   Poor Ygritte, but as it is said by many people in the show all over their world (also true of ours, I think): you cannot choose who you love.   Just ask Jaime

Yup, also in the scene where Tyrion/Varys/Davos are looking at those two while discussing their possible marriage, during that exchange Dany and Jon are completely enamored with each other.

Everybody else in Winterfell is freaking out about one thing or another, but those two are smiling, laughing and all touchy feely, it's like the outside world might as well not exist to those two.

[willowbark]

18 minutes ago, Bambi said:

Its strange you point that out, because I absolutely do NOT feel the chemistry between the two. I mean I get the gestures when the actors are "acting" their love, but it feels acting all the same. Jon's bonding with Ygritte looked more genuine (obviously).  

I agree with you.  Jon with Ygritte felt more authentic to me.  Jon seems more stiff with Dany, and more reserved.  As a long time book reader, the differences I feel between him and Ygritte, and him and Dany, does make me more inclined to think Jon will be Dany's 3rd betrayal.

I was actually very very upset about the dragon riding and waterfall scene.  They had literally been told a couple of scenes ago that the NK has her dragon, broken through the wall, and in the north.  They decided to make WF their stand in the great hall meeting.  And Jon and Dany were talking and smiling with each other, rather than preparing the people and armies? Gendry, smiths, and other people of winterfell are working on preparations, and their Queen and Warden went on a dragon ride and make out session? Jon almost fell off a couple of times, and could have died.  That would be great for the northern people's morale before the battle.  The only narrative purpose that I could see was that it showed Rhaegal bonding with Jon, and accepting Jon as his rider - this may be needed for the battle against the NK.  But I wish it had been ordered differently if that was the case.  Like before they knew about the wall, or something?

[willowbark]

12 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I agree. It doesn't feel so passionate. Bad actors, one could argue.

I mean, Kit and Rose did get married, so it could be argued that the chemistry was theirs, and not Ygritte and Jon's, but still, you would think that the directors and producers would make sure that the actors weren't as flat.  I do see Dany's interest in Jon completely, and I could see her interest in him all last season.  It's particularly Jon who seems wooden.  Either Kit isn't bringing it, or he is killing his acting, and Jon isn't as into Dany as we're supposed to think.  I'm leaning towards that, but could also see that it might just be the actor.

[LadyNoOne]

11 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I am not so sure, but yes, maybe. The relation to Ygritte was very complicated and burdened, he was utterly unexperienced, the situation was not good for living out a fresh love. She seduced him and they never really could enjoy some days just for themselves.

PSYCHOLOGY

As a non-native speaker I always wonder about English subsumes infatuation/falling in love vs. being in love in one simple word. These are entirely different feeling, physiologically and emotionally.

Freshly "falling in love" is about a euphoric feeling, about excitement, exaggerating positive traits, ignoring negative traits, about butteflies in one's stomach, about thinking about the other all the time.  Infatuation is volatile and ends after some weeks or latest after several months. These are accompanied with measurable physiological reactions, hormone levels and so on. In essence, it's exciting.

"Loving each other" is about deep affection, a warm feeling of safety and belonging, the other being very important for your life. Deep love is something that needs years to grow, it needs a foundation to build on. In essence, it feels calm and safe.

In real-life, people can fall in love and after some weeks it's all over. As soon as the infatuation decreases, you see flaws and problems and not every infatuation ("falling in love") ends in love ("being in love"). Other languages have different everyday-words for these emotions, e.g. "Verliebtheit" vs. "Liebe" in German. 

BACK TO THE SHOW

Jon is infatuated with Daenerys. They are freshly fallen in love and the show depicted this realistically to happen after a big adventure. This happens very often in real life, too.

Jon looks at Daenerys and cannot get enough. He wants her badly in the moment. Infatuation blinds his mind. Real-life.

 

Hi, all languages are limited in their own way, I suppose.  You're completely correct that there is one catch all word for "love" but the love that you would have for your pet is completely different to the love you would have for a spouse, As you state, infatuation is completely different from deep, meaningful love yet people often confuse the two and wind up splitting up when ultimately the relationship may have gone to the next level...

In any case, I think that Jon is experiencing infatuation that stands a great chance of developing into deep love, except for the part that Dany is his aunt...  I think she will feel threatened by this.... Cheers,

[Kajjo]

7 minutes ago, willowbark said:

They decided to make WF their stand in the great hall meeting.  And Jon and Dany were talking and smiling with each other, rather than preparing the people and armies?

Well, Daenerys testing and training Jon to ride a dragon can be the most important preparation for battle. Dragons with rider are extremely powerful weapons.

Riding a dragon and getting used to it makes a lot of sense in this situation. 

6 minutes ago, willowbark said:

Either Kit isn't bringing it [...] and Jon isn't as into Dany as we're supposed to think. 

Either it is badly acted or it is supposed (!) to make us worry about his true feelings. 

He might be infatuated with her, but he certainly should realise her shortcomings as well.

[willowbark]

4 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Well, Daenerys testing and training Jon to ride a dragon can be the most important preparation for battle. Dragons with rider are extremely powerful weapons.

Riding a dragon and getting used to it makes a lot of sense in this situation. 

Either it is badly acted or it is supposed (!) to make us worry about his true feelings. 

He might be infatuated with her, but he certainly should realise her shortcomings as well.

Unfortunately, I think it comes down to either questionable writing/acting, or there are structural story reasons for things that don't quite make sense.  And we won't know until the end. (Winterfell last season was terrible writing, IMO, and I really really hope that there is a narrative reason for my issue with this season.  I just really have a hard time with the two big leaders making googly eyes at each other, and going on a private tryst, instead of making sure that their people are prepared and ready for the impeding battle that they know is coming real soon.)

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, willowbark said:

instead of making sure that their people are prepared and ready

Well, everyone has orders, it seems. They are busy. They have a lot of commanders there (Royce, Grey worm, Dothraki leaders). 

Talking some minutes is not wasting whole days. Of course we only see very short scenes of a mason working with dragonglass, the blacksmiths working heavily, armor being prepared, people still streaming into Winterfell. There is time to talk -- and training on dragons is important.

[btfu806]

3 hours ago, Bambi said:

Its strange you point that out, because I absolutely do NOT feel the chemistry between the two. I mean I get the gestures when the actors are "acting" their love, but it feels acting all the same. Jon's bonding with Ygritte looked more genuine (obviously).  

I am with you on this. Kit and Emilia don't seem to have much chemistry together. It feels so forced. I don't know if it's the actors or the fact the story is rushing it or they haven't spent much time together in real life.

This is just my opinion now, and I am sure others will argue. I feel like Kit is trying his hardest to make these romance scenes work, Emilia I just don't think is a good actress.

[House Cambodia]

^ completely agree. Kit and Emilia's acting chops are limited, as they've shown in extra-GoT roles. I suspect Kit, who genuinely loves Rose, just can't fake it with another woman.

[btfu806]

1 minute ago, House Cambodia said:

^ completely agree. Kit and Emilia's acting chops are limited, as they've shown in extra-GoT roles. I suspect Kit, who genuinely loves Rose, just can't fake it with another woman.

And they are newly weds you figure. Since there wasn't much "acting" in those scenes most likely, it's hard, especially in a new marriage, to try to do that with someone else. Agree 100% with you on this.

[House Cambodia]

2 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

And they are newly weds you figure. Since there wasn't much "acting" in those scenes most likely, it's hard, especially in a new marriage, to try to do that with someone else. Agree 100% with you on this.

Yeah, as a happily-married husband myself, I can empathise with the dude!

[El Guapo]

5 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

^ completely agree. Kit and Emilia's acting chops are limited, as they've shown in extra-GoT roles. I suspect Kit, who genuinely loves Rose, just can't fake it with another woman.

Not just another woman though his wife's best friend.

[btfu806]

Just now, El Guapo said:

Not just another woman though his wife's best friend.

Are they best friends in real life? Did not know that! And agreed, that would make it even harder on Kit.

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, El Guapo said:

Not just another woman though his wife's best friend.

Maybe they should have Rose body-double the scenes and CRG Emilia in post-production, ha ha!