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Are We Supposed to Believe Arya and The FM Have No Connection Anymore?

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8 hours ago, darmody said:

Sounds like a horrible way to run a super-secret assassins' guild. Not that I've run one. 

I agree. But maybe they know about the Great War or at least the fundamental threat? 

But yes, Jaqen offered Arya to join so she could kill whoever was on her list. Later she gets punished for doing exactly this. Strange rules. Somehow this works out out entirely. But well... it's a TV show.

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On 4/17/2019 at 9:24 AM, Kajjo said:

A third scenario is that Jaqen invited Arya with clear intentions to begin with and knew that he would train her for another career than just being a faceless man. When he gave her that Braavos coin he lured her with the promise she might sacrifice all the people on her list to the Many-faced God. Later se seems to deviate from this promise, though.

So maybe he lets her go, because he is sure that she will sacrifice a lot of people to the Many-faced God. She will be a killer and she starts off killing all the Freys.

I am sure we are supposed to believe that there is no connection to the faceless men anymore. Arya meets her direwolf Nymeria and Nymeria recognises her. This wouldn't happen with a faceless man I guess.  Arya also shares a lot of common memories with Sansa which would not be possible for a faceless man.

Also this debunks the theory of the arya is the waif. Because Nymeria would have ate her alive in the woods.

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1 minute ago, Charlie Hustle said:

Also this debunks the theory of the arya is the waif. Because Nymeria would have ate her alive in the woods.

Exactly. That's what I meant.

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On 4/22/2019 at 2:05 AM, darmody said:

You're saying the Faceless Men knew Arya would end up killing who needs to be killed anyway, so they let her go? That Arya pleases the god of death because...she's Arya? 

Has she killed anyone who hasn't broke a vow or one of the sacred rules?

 

The Waif who IIRC the faceless men weren't happy with because it was getting personal with Arya (Though granted I maybe misremembering)

 

The Freys who broke the sacred guest rite. 

 

I'm sure LF has broken a vow or a promise somewhere down the line. 

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10 minutes ago, Johnston said:

Has she killed anyone who hasn't broke a vow or one of the sacred rules?

 

The Waif who IIRC the faceless men weren't happy with because it was getting personal with Arya (Though granted I maybe misremembering)

 

The Freys who broke the sacred guest rite. 

 

I'm sure LF has broken a vow or a promise somewhere down the line. 

I’m not sure the FM work that way. They kill those they are paid to kill, not necessary people who have broken “sacred rules.” The actress Arya was supposed to kill seemed quite nice. A rival actress paid to have her killed so she could take over the leading roles.

 

Is guest right a universal rule? It is certainly part of the worship of The Seven, but I can’t remember if it is mentioned as part of the religions of the MFG, R’Lor, the Drowned god,or any others inWesteros or Essos.

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On 4/18/2019 at 4:07 AM, Deminelle said:

For some reason I don't see FM re-appearing in the show but they do need to bring the Valonqar prophecy to a close somehow. 

I wonder if that prophecy will be included in the show at all. It was not part of the Maggie the Frog scene.

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1 hour ago, I prefer summer said:

I wonder if that prophecy will be included in the show at all. It was not part of the Maggie the Frog scene.

Personally, I'd prefer Jaime stab her in the back. 

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1 hour ago, I prefer summer said:

I wonder if that prophecy will be included in the show at all. It was not part of the Maggie the Frog scene.

Wasn't the prophecy shown last season? I'm pretty sure it was & I don't think it's been talked about since. I definitely remember the scene of young Cersei talking to Maggi but I can't remember if they showed the valonqar prophecy or just the prophecy about all Cersei's children dying. 

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21 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

but I can't remember if they showed the valonqar prophecy

No "valonqar" (little brother) in the show. Only the three children with golden crowns and golden shrouds.

The scene is from S5.

 

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5 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

No "valonqar" (little brother) in the show. Only the three children with golden crowns and golden shrouds.

The scene is from S5.

 

Thanks, I couldn't remember. So they may not have anyone kill Cersei or however she dies/whoever kills her is not meant to fulfill this prophecy since it's left out. Probably D&D didn't know who is meant to fulfill it would be my guess

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8 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Thanks, I couldn't remember. So they may not have anyone kill Cersei or however she dies/whoever kills her is not meant to fulfill this prophecy since it's left out. Probably D&D didn't know who is meant to fulfill it would be my guess

Cersei's a major character, her fate will be the same as the books.  So whoever kills her in the show, will do the deed in the books too.

As for Arya and the FM.  The show wrapped it up quickly, but there has never been any indication that the FM kill failed trainees, or trainees that quit.  They went after her in the show due to what she did (or rather didn't do) and she owed them a life (a death), which she fulfilled by killing the waif.

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3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Cersei's a major character, her fate will be the same as the books.  So whoever kills her in the show, will do the deed in the books too.

As for Arya and the FM.  The show wrapped it up quickly, but there has never been any indication that the FM kill failed trainees, or trainees that quit.  They went after her in the show due to what she did (or rather didn't do) and she owed them a life (a death), which she fulfilled by killing the waif.

I will have to respectively disagree with you there. I don't think being a major character means she will be killed by the same person in the show as in the books. Meet the same fate probably but not necessarily the same way. Especially considering the means by which she is supposed to die in the books - the valonqar - doesn't exist in the show. 

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7 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I will have to respectively disagree with you there. I don't think being a major character means she will be killed by the same person in the show as in the books. Meet the same fate probably but not necessarily the same way. Especially considering the means by which she is supposed to die in the books - the valonqar - doesn't exist in the show. 

So you think the Valonqar is someone we haven't yet seen in the books?  I doubt that very much.  The valonqar will be someone we've already seen and almost certainly be someone who exists in the show too.

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4 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

So you think the Valonqar is someone we haven't yet seen in the books?  I doubt that very much.  The valonqar will be someone we've already seen and almost certainly be someone who exists in the show too.

No, sorry I must not be explaining myself well. I agree the valonqar is someone we know in the books & the show. I think it's likely a well known character. What I'm saying is I don't think D&D know who the valonqar is - for instance for arguments sake let's say Jaime is the valonqar, obviously Jaime has been well introduced in the books & the show, but I'm suggesting D&D don't know Jaime is the valonqar. That's why they left that prophecy out. So maybe in the show Cersei gets killed by Dany - I don't think that means she will be killed by Dany in the books or that Dany is the valonqar. I think the prophecy is left out because they never got the answer to that prophecy from The George. 

The prophecy about her children is clear enough so they could include that & have the children all die (might not be the same way though) I think I remember an SSM where George said he gave D&D the broad strokes & the end game but not every detail or path of getting there. 

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11 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

No, sorry I must not be explaining myself well. I agree the valonqar is someone we know in the books & the show. I think it's likely a well known character. What I'm saying is I don't think D&D know who the valonqar is - for instance for arguments sake let's say Jaime is the valonqar, obviously Jaime has been well introduced in the books & the show, but I'm suggesting D&D don't know Jaime is the valonqar. That's why they left that prophecy out. So maybe in the show Cersei gets killed by Dany - I don't think that means she will be killed by Dany in the books or that Dany is the valonqar. I think the prophecy is left out because they never got the answer to that prophecy from The George. 

The prophecy about her children is clear enough so they could include that & have the children all die (might not be the same way though) I think I remember an SSM where George said he gave D&D the broad strokes & the end game but not every detail or path of getting there. 

GRRM will have told them how Cersei dies and, if applicable, who kills her.  And it's almost certainly Jaime.  It seems like the obvious choice to those on these forums but for casual show watchers and book readers, I doubt they picked up on the foreshadowing and clues.  Such as being specifically told Cersei came out of the womb first and Cersei saying "If he were dead, I would know it.  We came into this world together, Uncle.  He would not go without me.".

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They left out pretty much all of the prophecy's from the book and I believe that was a conscious choice from the beginning. Just compare the House of the Undying book version to the show.

As far as Arya and the Faceless Men are concerned. A man needs a name and if Arya's name doesn't reach their ears, well she doesn't have to worry about them.

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1 hour ago, Lord Lyman said:

As far as Arya and the Faceless Men are concerned. A man needs a name and if Arya's name doesn't reach their ears, well she doesn't have to worry about them.

Now, would "Hodor", for example, be a 'name' if he is undead? Could be lots of options in Winterfell tonight!

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With writers like D&D? Yes, absolutely.

With GRRM and any other truly good writers? No.

Actually, if Arya leaves the FM in The Winds of Winter anything like the way she did in the show, I can see the Faceless Men hunting her down all the way into Westeros.

Can you imagine a Jason Bourne thriller juxtaposed with zombie horror and high medieval fantasty

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