somebody clear a few things up for me ?

[darmody]

13 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

I've always wondered something about the water travel problem, couldn't the WW freeze the water ahead of them enough that their army marches slowly behind them?

They didn't even try to freeze the lake around the Magnificent Six. But that could have been because the Night King was using them as dragon bait. 

[L’Age d’or]

1 minute ago, Deminelle said:

So, now that we know Jon should be the right leader, where does that place Dany in regards with Sansa? Without yet knowing it herself, Sansa is correct not bending the knee to Dany.

It's not about being correct in retrospect, Sansa not showing proper courtesy is truly out of character for her. Joffrey was never the legitimate king but people didn't survive slighting him since he held the power of the Iron Throne. 

Uttering "your grace" at best implies that one recognises the other as a queen, I dislike Dany but she has showed great self-restraint in the face of such open insolence from Sansa so far, which is also out of character for the Targaryen. 

 

[darmody]

11 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

They should absolutely have decamped from Winterfell, gone below the neck, and back to Dragonstone, a volcanic island, which should have been their HQ.  Not Winterfell, surrounded by land up in the North.

The farther the Army of the Dead marches, the bigger it gets because it collects the living. And it moves faster than the Auntie and Nephew ever could. Not to mention how much worse winter could get by the time they reach the South. Or the fact that Cersei waits down there. 

The smarter play is to fight in each stronghold as they pull back, if necessary. Right now, they have a mighty fortress with people used to fighting in the cold and the only people used to fighting zombies, i.e. members and former members of the Night's Watch and the Wildlings. Plus the dragons, I guess. And Ghost of he still exists. 

[darmody]

45 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

Didn't Jon bend the knee on behalf of all of them?

Yes, they are following their king, now presumed Warden of the North. 

[darmody]

13 hours ago, Seaserpent said:

it's kinda stupid for the show, because Olenna Tyrell, Allyria Sand and Yaya Greyjoy all have been rulers of their regions, sow why suddenly is the kingship different. Even Cersei sits on the throne!

What's silly is the girl power trip the show took in season Six. Basically women ruled everywhere except the Iron Islands and the North. And that was the one place where the girl really should have inherited. Because Jon is just a bastard and Sansa is the eldest natural daughter of Ned Stark. (and Bran hadn't shown up yet, and anyway has procreation issues.) 

I don't know who should have had Highgarden. Yara rebelled against her duly-elected uncle. The less said about Dorne the better, but she was a mistress with a brood of snarling bastards who killed the rightful ruler because he had gout or something. 

Their is no possible way Cersei has a claim. If anything, it would go to Jaime before her. But it shouldn't go to either. 

[Deminelle]

What I meant to ask earlier: since Jon is the true King and Sansa should have inherited the North, how do Dany and Sansa rank in regards to one another, the first being an aunt to Jon and the other a cousin? 

[Kajjo]

6 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

they can apparently forge industrial-strength chains

They found the chains in Hardhome, they did not forge them themselves.

6 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

The WW apparently had no trouble affixing those chains to a dead dragon who was submerged in a lake, so why is water a problem at all?

We only know that water is a problem for wights. Not for necessarily for White Walkers. The Nightking even had not problems with fire up at the cave of the three-eyed raven, while wights are easily killed by fire.

3 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

while Wights can be in/under water, perhaps the White Walkers can't? 

The contrary is shown in the wight excursion scene. Wight do not go into water, but they can go over ice. We do not know what White Walkers can or cannot.

[House Cambodia]

9 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

They found the chains in Hardhome, they did not forge them themselves.

We only know that water is a problem for wights. Not for necessarily for White Walkers. The Nightking even had not problems with fire up at the cave of the three-eyed raven, while wights are easily killed by fire.

The contrary is shown in the wight excursion scene. Wight do not go into water, but they can go over ice. We do not know what White Walkers can or cannot.

Yeah, the WWs know they can and have been taken out individually by the NW, so unless it's the NK on an Ice Dragon, the WWs aren't going to venture far without their wight hordes.

[House Cambodia]

48 minutes ago, L’Age d’or said:

Uttering "your grace" at best implies that one recognises the other as a queen, I dislike Dany but she has showed great self-restraint in the face of such open insolence from Sansa so far, which is also out of character for the Targaryen. 

Sansa is mindful that the North is in open revolt against Jon for bending the knee to Dany. Even if Sansa wanted to follow his lead, it could prove disastrous, with the Little Bear leading the rest of the Northern clans to rebel. Dany's behavior has done nothing to win them over.

[L’Age d’or]

Rebel against what? 2 dragons, 10K Unsullied and 50K raging Dothraki screamers? Please...

And the Little Bear is comic relief the showrunners forced down our throats. 

[darmody]

27 minutes ago, Deminelle said:

What I meant to ask earlier: since Jon is the true King and Sansa should have inherited the North, how do Dany and Sansa rank in regards to one another, the first being an aunt to Jon and the other a cousin? 

Danny outranks Sansa. The former is a princess and first in line for the throne, unless or until Jon produces an heir. Sansa is merely a lady and would-be wardeness of the North. 

[House Cambodia]

4 minutes ago, L’Age d’or said:

Rebel against what? 2 dragons, 10K Unsullied and 50K raging Dothraki screamers? Please...

And the Little Bear is comic relief the showrunners forced down our throats. 

The Glovers have already upped and left.

[L’Age d’or]

12 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

The Glovers have already upped and left.

IIRC, they sent a message saying they will remain where they are, also Glover was a Bolton supporter who refused Jon and only swore fealty after his  army was wiped out. Minor lords and ladies are followers, the same way they followed Robb then Roose then Jon then Sansa, they'd follow where their betters tell them to especially since after all that fighting most of them command nothing bigger than a pitiful army.  

[House Cambodia]

1 minute ago, L’Age d’or said:

IIRC, they sent a message saying they will remain where they are, also Glover was a Bolton supporter who refused Jon and only swore fealty after his  army was wiped out. Minor lords and ladies are followers, the same way they followed Robb then Roose then Jon then Sansa, they'd follow where their betters tell them to especially since after all that fighting most of them command nothing bigger than a pitiful army.  

My point is, even in the face of "2 dragons, 10K Unsullied and 50K raging Dothraki screamers", they have chosen to absent themselves, so it's not impossible that other clans will decamp if they feel let down by their chosen leaders. Bear in mind, they don't yet know the fate of the Umbers and only the NW and Wildings have so far actually seen the WW/wight armies.

[ummester]

15 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Jon Snow is the son of the last prince Rhaegar who was the first born son of the Mad King. So Rhaegar is first in line of succession, then all his sons -- and only then the other siblings of Rhaegar, i.e. Daenerys. Daenerys is the aunt of Jon Snow.

But Robert's rebellion overthrew the Targs so why does their lineage still matter? Also, Aegon was an invader who took Westeros by dragon force, so it would be hypocritical to argue that a Targ linage is any more valid than a Baratheon one.

[MinscS2]

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

The contrary is shown in the wight excursion scene. Wight do not go into water, but they can go over ice. We do not know what White Walkers can or cannot.

I disagree. Wights are perfectly "fine" in water, they just don't know how to swim so they sink to the bottom. 

Evidently they are still active and being able to "work" while submerged, given how they managed to put massive chains on a dead Viserion and almost pulled Tormund into the hole.

 

[Kajjo]

7 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

perfectly "fine" in water,

In the wight excursion in S7 we see some wights break through ice into water. After a very short period of dumbly running wights no more wights enter the water. They wait on the bank, on their own accord. Later a stone shows that the ice holds and the wights enter the ice.

What exactly is "perfectly fine" about wights in water?! The expression is misleading. Wight cannot die. So much is true. They continue under water.

9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

they just don't know how to swim so they sink to the bottom.

Would you call that "perfectly fine"?

10 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

almost pulled Tormund into the hole.

Wights don't go into water. That's the essence.

11 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

given how they managed to put massive chains on a dead Viserion

We have NOT seen this. Do not make things up, please!

Either this is a stupid plot-hole or the WW have done it. But it is surely no intended information about the ability to work under water.

[MinscS2]

1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

We have NOT seen this. Do not make things up, please!

Point remains, we have yet to see WW's be in contact with water. 

[Kajjo]

1 hour ago, ummester said:

But Robert's rebellion overthrew the Targs so why does their lineage still matter?

Correct, I stated that quite a few times already. Robert conquered the throne. And of course Daenerys can conquer the throne, too. Whether she has any birthright to it, does not really matter at all, sicne now we have a Baratheon "dynasty" (well, very short).

1 hour ago, ummester said:

Also, Aegon was an invader who took Westeros by dragon force, so it would be hypocritical to argue that a Targ linage is any more valid than a Baratheon one

Right. I fully agree.

I just explained the succession. I with you anyway.

[Kajjo]

8 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Point remains, we have yet to see WW's be in contact with water. 

True. We haven't see that either and we simply don't know. Pure speculation.