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Tywin et al.

US Politics: It’s Not A Crime If Your Feelings Got Hurt

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16 hours ago, Zorral said:

* Trying to recall any terrorist action committed in the US by Cuba and failing ... while I can think of all kinds of bad acts including election stealing against the US by Russia and Saudi.

Ted Cruz.

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9 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

Yeah, fucking hell.  I'll vote for Biden if it's him or Trump but it'll be much more uncomfortable than it was voting for Clinton.  

Right now I think my preferences go:

1.  Warren

2.  Harris

2.  Sanders

4.  Castro

Who the hell looks at the Dem field, sees Biden, and goes "that's the guy!"?  It's just name recognition, right?  

 

Name recognition, the thought that he’s experienced, (overlooking the fact that Biden has a lot of bad experience tied to his record, such as with the drug war or being part of rewriting bankruptcy laws in a way that gutted their protections) and that the dem primary voters are disproportionately midwesterners who think all problems would be solved by Democrats being more moderate.

Biden might not have much appeal to those of us who are lefty politics junkies, but to that crowd he’s just what they’ve been waiting for.

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2 hours ago, Paladin of Ice said:

Name recognition, the thought that he’s experienced, (overlooking the fact that Biden has a lot of bad experience tied to his record, such as with the drug war or being part of rewriting bankruptcy laws in a way that gutted their protections) and that the dem primary voters are disproportionately midwesterners who think all problems would be solved by Democrats being more moderate.

Bad experiences shape us and teach us about the mistakes we've made in the past. The mistake isn't the thing to focus on. Look more at the individual growth and how the candidate, or person in general, expresses said growth.

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Biden might not have much appeal to those of us who are lefty politics junkies, but to that crowd he’s just what they’ve been waiting for.

AKA primary voters. If I was a gambling man I'd bet that Biden has already plateaued.

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Newly announced presidential candidate Joe Biden contacted Anita Hill earlier this month to express “regret” over the way her sexual-assault allegations against Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas were handled—but Hill didn’t walk away happy.

She told The New York Times this week that she was unsatisfied with their conversation and refuses to call what he said an apolog

“I cannot be satisfied by simply saying I’m sorry for what happened to you. I will be satisfied when I know there is real change and real accountability and real purpose,” she said. Hill added that she doesn’t think Biden yet understands the true consequences of his actions, and, as such, she cannot support his presidential bid.

“The focus on apology to me is one thing,” Hill added. “But he needs to give an apology to the other women and to the American public because we know now how deeply disappointed Americans around the country were about what they saw. And not just women. There are women there are women and men now who have just really lost confidence in our government to respond to the problem of gender violence.”

 

Anita Hill Bashes Biden, Demands He Apologize to ‘Other Women’
‘I cannot be satisfied by simply saying I’m sorry for what happened to you,’ Hill told The New York Times of her conversation with the ex-veep.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anita-hill-bashes-biden-demands-he-apologize-to-other-women?source=articles&via=rss

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WASHINGTON — All those times Donald Trump railed about the secretive “deep state” trying to undermine his presidency, he might have tried checking upstairs and down the hall.

That was the location of the West Wing office of former White House chief lawyer Don McGahn, who, according to the report issued last week by special counsel Robert Mueller, repeatedly thwarted Trump by failing to comply with his boss’ orders to block the Russia investigation and then cover up his attempts to do so.

And in so doing, McGahn and a number of his White House colleagues joined the long list of bureaucrats, top agency officials and Republican lawmakers who have settled on one simple trick for dealing with Trump’s illegal, unethical or simply unwelcome demands: ignoring them, knowing that Trump is likely to forget and move on.

“As always with Trump, you have to figure out when to take it seriously,” said one former top Republican National Committee member on condition of anonymity. “This guy brings out more of that from more people in more situations than anybody possibly could.”

 

If Trump Is So Worried About The ‘Deep State,’ He Should Try Looking In The White House
Don McGahn and others in the White House did what’s become common among Republicans in Washington: Dealing with Trump by ignoring him.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/deep-state-white-house_n_5cc0be43e4b01b6b3efc1c43

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Bad experiences shape us and teach us about the mistakes we've made in the past. The mistake isn't the thing to focus on. Look more at the individual growth and how the candidate, or person in general, expresses said growth.

I agree in general, but how do you tell with each specific case if this has actually happened, especially with someone running for president? Why shouldn't I believe that Biden wouldn't still favor the sort of policies that made dollar signs show up in the eyes of credit card and debt collection companies? Why should I believe that he'll take the right steps on mass incarceration? Me Too? Systemic racism? Income inequality? Worker rights and protections? Etc.

I mean, I know that anyone who actually looks at policy is very much the exception to the rule and most people are just happy to have a folksy, charming guy to vote for, (not on this board but in general in America) but I would actually like to make some headway on those issues sometime in my lifetime. I know it probably won't happen for various reasons, (including that something like 1/5 of the judiciary and 2-3 members of SCOTUS will be Trump appointees before he's out of office even if we vote him out in 2020, and they will fight to stop any efforts to undo Trump's rampant stupidity and viciousness) but it would certainly be nice. And as far as believing that a candidate will take action on any of those fronts, Biden is pretty far down the list for me.

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AKA primary voters. If I was a gambling man I'd bet that Biden has already plateaued.

Yeah. Like I said with primary voters Biden will be much more popular than with the larger field of Democratic voters, and the media do love themselves a centrist, so if the activists of the party don't get involved during the primary Uncle Joe will have a far better chance than he logically should. But I'm similarly doubtful that his number of core voters will grow much, unless the low information voter crowd really gets drawn to Biden's charm and tragic life story.

Edited by Paladin of Ice

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Posted (edited)

I regret every Biden/Obama meme I ever shared or liked.

Edit: in the interest of contributing something constructive, read this rebuke of the media coverage of the 4 B's

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But did you know that there are also some women—and some people of color—running? I can’t thrust them onto the cover of Vanity Fair, but I can tell you that if you’re excited that Beto O’Rourke reads books—and it is, indeed, a big plus that someone reads books—well, good news: Elizabeth Warren has written 11 books. Upset that Biden is too touchy feely? Kirsten Gillibrand has actively fought against men who overstep boundaries, and, additionally, not groped anyone herself!

In spite of that, every time a woman does something successfully, people seem determined to skew it to show how successful a man was. Look at Ryan Lizza and Chris Cillizza tweeting about how Kamala Harris raising more funds than Pete Buttigieg just makes Buttigieg look better. Kamala raised $5 million more than him.

 

Edited by larrytheimp

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1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

I regret every Biden/Obama meme I ever shared or liked.

Why?

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2 hours ago, Paladin of Ice said:

I agree in general, but how do you tell with each specific case if this has actually happened, especially with someone running for president? Why shouldn't I believe that Biden wouldn't still favor the sort of policies that made dollar signs show up in the eyes of credit card and debt collection companies? Why should I believe that he'll take the right steps on mass incarceration? Me Too? Systemic racism? Income inequality? Worker rights and protections? Etc.

I mean, I know that anyone who actually looks at policy is very much the exception to the rule and most people are just happy to have a folksy, charming guy to vote for, (not on this board but in general in America) but I would actually like to make some headway on those issues sometime in my lifetime. I know it probably won't happen for various reasons, (including that something like 1/5 of the judiciary and 2-3 members of SCOTUS will be Trump appointees before he's out of office even if we vote him out in 2020, and they will fight to stop any efforts to undo Trump's rampant stupidity and viciousness) but it would certainly be nice. And as far as believing that a candidate will take action on any of those fronts, Biden is pretty far down the list for me.

I would point to his stances on the LGBTQ community. At the beginning of his career he was pretty shaky on the issue, and yet he came out in support of same sex marriage before Obama and effectively forced his hand. I think Biden has done a good job expressing how he’s learned from his mistakes, be it how he handled the Anita Hill hearings or the Clinton crime bill. He’s not perfect and he’s not my preference at all, but he’s also not the worst choice possible. That would be Tulsi Gabbard.

 

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31 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Because it was free press for Biden 

Only at the margins. I wouldn’t think too much of it, and honestly I think people are being too harsh on Biden. I’ve said several times that I didn’t want him to run, but he’s earned the right to do so more than most of the people running.

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I would point to his stances on the LGBTQ community. At the beginning of his career he was pretty shaky on the issue, and yet he came out in support of same sex marriage before Obama and effectively forced his hand. I think Biden has done a good job expressing how he’s learned from his mistakes, be it how he handled the Anita Hill hearings or the Clinton crime bill. He’s not perfect and he’s not my preference at all, but he’s also not the worst choice possible. That would be Tulsi Gabbard.

 

Not so sure about that...

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/anita-hill-wont-support-joe-biden-after-lacking-call-earlier-this-month

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Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Only at the margins. I wouldn’t think too much of it, and honestly I think people are being too harsh on Biden. I’ve said several times that I didn’t want him to run, but he’s earned the right to do so more than most of the people running.

They're not being too harsh - it's nuts to look at the rest of the field and say, you know what, I think we need Biden to take this one.  Other than the LGBTQ thing Biden's responses/apologies have been pretty weak and self-serving.  I'm all for people learning from their mistakes, but he's got a bunch of problems.  I hope if there's some more harassment or assault (sorry!  unwanted touching!  oops) it comes out now.  Would suck for someone to hold onto something like that until after he gets the nomination.

Biden is a great choice though if you want to minimize youth turnout.

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1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

I kind of think she’ll never forgive him, which is her right because she was so thoroughly wronged,  but Biden has gone out of his way on several occasions to apologize and say he was in the wrong. What more can he do?

1 hour ago, larrytheimp said:

They're not being too harsh - it's nuts to look at the rest of the field and say, you know what, I think we need Biden to take this one.  Other than the LGBTQ thing Biden's responses/apologies have been pretty weak and self-serving.  I'm all for people learning from their mistakes, but he's got a bunch of problems.  I hope if there's some more harassment or assault (sorry!  unwanted touching!  oops) it comes out now.  Would suck for someone to hold onto something like that until after he gets the nomination.

Biden is a great choice though if you want to minimize youth turnout.

Oh come on. People are making way too much out of this. Biden is just a touchy guy in general, and that goes for men too. He’s basically the drunk guy next to you at the urinal in a dive bar who puts his arm around your shoulder and starts talking to you as you’re both taking a leak. It’s a little creepy, but ultimately harmless. Calling it assault is way over the top.

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Two interesting pieces in the NYer.  One about the Mueller Report and impeachment, and the other wondering why, when the other candidates have chosen to go for what they are for, he's going for wart bashing.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/another-look-at-impeachment-after-the-mueller-report

and

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-trumps-washington/why-is-joe-biden-the-only-democrat-who-wants-to-talk-about-donald-trump

The conclusion of the first piece linked above:

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....But, on the whole, and taken on its own terms, the Mueller report is a powerful and positive document, because it is written testimony to the liberal faith in the power of rules and systems to bring order and justice. Mueller and his team were trying on every page of the report and in every instance to follow the rules, even if the rules they were following forced them into contorted prose and easily misrepresented positions. The rules are worth following, the underlying premise of the report insists, because only in accepting the rules can we insure justice. This is why the language of “norms” and their violation is misapplied to Trump and his conduct. What is at stake here are not “norms,” in the sense of ornamental ritual regularities in the conduct of office. What is at stake are rules—rules meant to insure objective judgment and fair dealing no matter who the subject may be or how you may feel about his or her conduct. These are fair-minded rules put in place by the painfully slow accession of power to procedure, equitable rules put in place over time and that, historically, remain vanishingly rare. As “Game of Thrones” reminds us—it may be the chief reason for the show’s current appeal—the rule of pure power asserting itself exactly as it likes whenever it likes is what most often happens among human beings.

This is why the idea that Mueller cleverly engineered his report to force Congress to act misses the point. Mueller didn’t intend it. The rules did. This is why impeachment—at least attempting to remove from power someone obviously unfit to hold it, whatever the outcome may be—has, within a week, passed from a distant speculative possibility to what seems to many like a primary moral duty. It is being miscast as a prudential act, or even as an act of overdue partisan aggression. Right now, it seems more like collective self-defense against a common danger.


 

 

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

What more can he do?

Not to have done what he did in the first place, because what he did was wrong, and spoiled her life.v  He refuses to accept he spoiled her life in many ways.  That he didn't completely spoil it is due to her great courage and character alone -- the kind of courage and character that Biden lacks. 

As for urinal touchy feely, while working out deals that good for big credit card companies and banks,  being no big deal -- just -- disgusting.  Do not want somebody like that in the oval representing me.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I kind of think she’ll never forgive him, which is her right because she was so thoroughly wronged,  but Biden has gone out of his way on several occasions to apologize and say he was in the wrong. What more can he do?

Oh come on. People are making way too much out of this. Biden is just a touchy guy in general, and that goes for men too. He’s basically the drunk guy next to you at the urinal in a dive bar who puts his arm around your shoulder and starts talking to you as you’re both taking a leak. It’s a little creepy, but ultimately harmless. Calling it assault is way over the top.

My point is that if you want to get all politically pragmatic about it, don't even nominate a man.  Especially someone from Biden's generation, where we've already had women come forward and say that his touching has made them uncomfortable.  The guy, while probably a decent person, is a fucking disaster in the making of a candidate.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I kind of think she’ll never forgive him, which is her right because she was so thoroughly wronged,  but Biden has gone out of his way on several occasions to apologize and say he was in the wrong. What more can he do?

It doesn't matter how many times you try to make amends if you do it half-assedly every time. This is a weird tone to take, that the reason Biden hasn't been forgiven by Anita Hill is because of her unwillingness to forgive. How unusual that a black woman who's been wronged by a powerful old white man is somehow to blame all over again.

Edited by DanteGabriel

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On CNN this morning someone was commenting about how other candidates have tip-toed around Trump, and how Biden went right after him in his video. And how Trump has jumped to the bait, and how he has made Charlottesville a topic of conversation as he tries to defend himself. Biden has pulled a Trump on Trump. Who else has done that? Others have just drawn insults.

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