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Jon's dilemma: What would Ned do?

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Jon always has perceived Ned to be his "father". Besides this he was a mentor to Jon and was an ego ideal that Jon aspired to emulate. Jon also described him as "The most honorable man I ever knew". Jon now knows his true heritage. Because of all these things it would seem logical to me that one of the first thoughts he would have to help him identify/formulate his response would be: "What would Ned do". So what do people think would be Ned's response if he was still alive to give it? How would Jon's love for Daenerys complicate the advice he would get from Ned, if any? Is this going to turn out to be the 'Love verses Duty" dilemma described by Aemon Targaryen in season 1? Finally what do people think Jon will decide to do?

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Think Ned would be advising him to deal with the threat of the north before having thoughts about anything else, but sure Ned would be telling him he can't carry on with a romantic relationship with his aunt, and tell him to support her claim to the throne as an advisor and to rule the north for her, don't think Ned would want Jon to become the king even if he does have the better claim.

one question i do have about Ned though is why did he never tell Cat about Jon? i could understand in the early years as they were pretty much strangers to other, but as the years went on and it was clear Cat was loyal to the family and could see Cat was still really struggling with the thought of Ned having a child with someone else why he didn't tell her.

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52 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Ned would keep Jon's origins a secret. But he did that for love. Maybe for Ned it was both. So it wasn't a hard decision. 

 

4 minutes ago, Podspackage said:

Think Ned would be advising him to deal with the threat of the north before having thoughts about anything else, but sure Ned would be telling him he can't carry on with a romantic relationship with his aunt, and tell him to support her claim to the throne as an advisor and to rule the north for her, don't think Ned would want Jon to become the king even if he does have the better claim.

We have seen how ned reacted when he found out that stannis was the heir. If it is simply a matter of who should be king based on the best claim ned would tell jon that if he wants he should be king. The decision to pursue his claim or abdicate would depend on jon and what they think of danny as potential ruler of the 7 kingdoms.

And given that some starks married their uncles/aunts I don t think ned would have a problem with their realtionship.

8 minutes ago, Podspackage said:

one question i do have about Ned though is why did he never tell Cat about Jon? i could understand in the early years as they were pretty much strangers to other, but as the years went on and it was clear Cat was loyal to the family and could see Cat was still really struggling with the thought of Ned having a child with someone else why he didn't tell her.

What garantee did ned have that cat wouldn t sacrífice jon's secret in order to keep her children safe? Or that she wouldn t want to deliver jon because she was anti targ? Cat doesn t have a lot of reasons to want to keep the secret if it is bad for her familly...

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12 minutes ago, divica said:

 

We have seen how ned reacted when he found out that stannis was the heir. If it is simply a matter of who should be king based on the best claim ned would tell jon that if he wants he should be king. The decision to pursue his claim or abdicate would depend on jon and what they think of danny as potential ruler of the 7 kingdoms.

And given that some starks married their uncles/aunts I don t think ned would have a problem with their realtionship.

What garantee did ned have that cat wouldn t sacrífice jon's secret in order to keep her children safe? Or that she wouldn t want to deliver jon because she was anti targ? Cat doesn t have a lot of reasons to want to keep the secret if it is bad for her familly...

Ned’s parents were cousins. Right?  Really don’t think he would care about Jon and Dany as a couple. But Jon’s secret can break the alliance and lead to people dying. He will tell Jon to zip it. Plus Jon took the black just cause he died doesn’t mean he can get any titles he gave up back. His watch just ended with his death. 

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3 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Ned’s parents were cousins. Right?  Really don’t think he would care about Jon and Dany as a couple. But Jon’s secret can break the alliance and lead to people dying. He will tell Jon to zip it. Plus Jon took the black just cause he died doesn’t mean he can get any titles he gave up back. His watch just ended with his death. 

Ned could have supported renly or keep quiet about joffrey. However he still chosed to tell stannis and start a war which led to people dying. And it wasn t in question who would be the best king or what would be the best for westeros, only who was the rigthful king.

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Posted (edited)

True. Based on the Stannis/Renly/Joffrey mess would Ned support Jon’s claim? He was loyal to Robert and hid the heir of the former crown prince. Jon was the rightful king at birth, Ned could have raised him and been his regent. Ned let someone else be king. Now I don’t know what the hell Ned would do. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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What he did then was keep his promise and protect Jon, and think he would try to keep protecting him by telling him not to take the iron throne as that would put him in more danger, if Jon said he wanted to claim the thorne though sure he would support his claim and help him take it.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Podspackage said:

What he did then was keep his promise and protect Jon, and think he would try to keep protecting him by telling him not to take the iron throne as that would put him in more danger, if Jon said he wanted to claim the thorne though sure he would support his claim and help him take it.

Yea but Ned was going to tell him after he took the black. Ned had no intention for Jon to be on the throne. Robert was king and it would have been treason. Jon is in that same situation now. He officially supported another person as Queen. To turn around and say psych would be treason. I still think Ned would say shut your mouth. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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Posted (edited)

Ned was a Baratheon proponent, because he didn't want any more mad Targs born from incest on the throne anymore. It would have been madness at the time to proclaim Rhaegar had another trueborn baby son. But even as Jon was nearing adulthood (16), he never once considered anybody else who was not of the Baratheon dynasty. So, as long as there was a legal trueborn Baratheon heir, Ned would argue to Jon to shut up.

However, the Baratheon dynasty is done for. Cersei Lannister is as horrible as the Mad King, and he would accept a Lannister dynasty even less than a Targaryen one. 

If Ned could talk to Jon now, I'd think he'd say "deal with the threat of the army of the dead first and foremost, but if Dany is truly her father's daughter with a callous and ruthless streak, she cannot be queen, and thus do your duty to the realm. If not, follow your heart." 

As for the relationship. It would mostly sadden Ned Stark. He wouldn't have an issue with cousins marrying, but he would between aunt-nephew or uncle-niece, especially if her parents were siblings, one who was definitely a nut. But after losing Lyanna, I do not think he would stand in the way of genuine love.

Edited by sweetsunray

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4 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Yea but Ned was going to tell him after he took the black. Ned had no intention for Jon to be on the throne. Robert was king and it would have been treason. Jon is in that same situation now. He officially supported another person as Queen. To turn around and say psych would be treason. I still think Ned would say shut your mouth. 

Jon bent the knee without being aware what he was giving up. And the same thing is true for the vows of the NW.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Jon bent the knee without being aware what he was giving up. And the same thing is true for the vows of the NW.

Wasn’t that the point? Ned knew exactly what it meant for Jon to join the NW and he let him. I personally think Jon has no claim because he did give them up when he  took the NW vows. Or someone could make a good case he didn’t have a claim. Being dead for a few hours doesn’t mean he has does titles back.  

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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2 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Wasn’t the point. Ned knew exactly what it meant for Jon to join the NW and he let him. I personally think Jon has no claim because he did give them up when took the NW vows. Or someone could make a good case he didn’t have a claim. Being dead for a few hours doesn’t mean he has does titles back.  

Ned actually didn't want Jon to join the NW when he first learned of it through Luwin. But Jon wanted it, and Cat told him she wanted Jon gone from WF if Ned was going South, and he couldn't risk taking him to KL. Ned also let Jon join, believing the Baratheon dynasty was secure: Robert had 2 sons and a daughter. When he's in his black cell though, he thinks of having a talk with Jon. He likely expected to talk to Jon before he could say his vows.

So, no, I don't think that Ned intended to reveal the truth only after Jon had given his vows.

The essence of the NW vow is to protect the realm of men. It's quite clear that not only WWs are a threat to the realm of men.

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1 hour ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Ned’s parents were cousins. Right?  Really don’t think he would care about Jon and Dany as a couple. But Jon’s secret can break the alliance and lead to people dying. He will tell Jon to zip it. Plus Jon took the black just cause he died doesn’t mean he can get any titles he gave up back. His watch just ended with his death. 

You do remember Jon was KiTN right? He has already taken / accepted titles. So why would he be adverse to another one, especially if it rallies them all together? I don't see him pressing for it but if he thinks Dany is not fit or is making choices that could destroy the coalition he built, then I could see him stepping up.

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3 minutes ago, dbunting said:

You do remember Jon was KiTN right? He has already taken / accepted titles. So why would he be adverse to another one, especially if it rallies them all together? I don't see him pressing for it but if he thinks Dany is not fit or is making choices that could destroy the coalition he built, then I could see him stepping up.

That was given to him. He gave up anything that was a birth right. Then he will take it by treason or another election.

Im not saying he is against being any leadership role. I don’t see him saying “this is mine and I’m taking it.” 

But the rules are out the window anyway. Bran abdicated to Sansa. Jon is Warden. He could say the hell with it and fight Dany for it. 

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1 minute ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

That was given to him. He gave up anything that was a birth right. Then he will take it by treason or another election.

Im not saying he is against being any leadership role. I don’t see him saying “this is mine and I’m taking it.” 

But the rules are out the window anyway. Bran abdicated to Sansa. Jon is Warden. He could say the hell with it and fight Dany for it. 

This discussion makes no sense. Once he left the nights watch, any vows to the nights watch are null and void. Why would only the one be voided by death and not the rest?

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Posted (edited)

Jon decided that. There is no saying that’s true. Back to topic. I still think Ned will tell Jon to do his duty and protect their people for anything else. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

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5 hours ago, Podspackage said:

Think Ned would be advising him to deal with the threat of the north before having thoughts about anything else, but sure Ned would be telling him he can't carry on with a romantic relationship with his aunt, and tell him to support her claim to the throne as an advisor and to rule the north for her, don't think Ned would want Jon to become the king even if he does have the better claim.

one question i do have about Ned though is why did he never tell Cat about Jon? i could understand in the early years as they were pretty much strangers to other, but as the years went on and it was clear Cat was loyal to the family and could see Cat was still really struggling with the thought of Ned having a child with someone else why he didn't tell her.

Ned barely knew Catlyn when he returned to Winterfell with Jon following the end of Robert's Rebllion. Once he decided to keep the secret from your wife keeping the secret forever is essentially the best option.

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