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Lady Winter Rose

Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

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I think so.

 

I see Jon being mostly absent from tWoW. And coming back in the end, but more as a prophetic/fantasy character, not your "Lord". Whereas, Rickon will be the new Lord of Winterfell. Robb Dead. Jon half dead. Arya a faceless assassin. Sansa may have a shot as Winterfell, but she can't carry the Stark name. So that leaves Rickon, imo. He may be a puppet lord for a while, but eventually he will turn into a wild wolf.

 

So, in the show, I think Rickon's story was given to Jon to some extent

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1 hour ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

With new Martin's interview, he said secondary characters fate might differ from the show - and in case of Rickon they most probably will.

Can you see Rickon taking Lord Rickard's spot?

For sure.

I have always felt there would be more to Rickon, and hopefully some pages taking place in/around Skagos where we learn more about the place and maybe even see a unigoatcorn.

I have a feeling Rickon and Shaggydog may have taken a dark turn.

 

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I think he may become either Lord of Winterfell or King in the North at the very end, maybe with Sansa as regent. 

Edited by Lady Anna

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1 hour ago, Shpati said:

I see Jon being mostly absent from tWoW. And coming back in the end, but more as a prophetic/fantasy character, not your "Lord". Whereas, Rickon will be the new Lord of Winterfell. Robb Dead. Jon half dead. Arya a faceless assassin. Sansa may have a shot as Winterfell, but she can't carry the Stark name. So that leaves Rickon, imo. He may be a puppet lord for a while, but eventually he will turn into a wild wolf.

Sansa can become the Lady of Winterfell only if both Bran and Rickon both die for realsies (or give up their claim, I guess). And if it happened, the man she marries would likely take the name Stark and the line would continue through her, although I doubt that's not what Tywin had in mind when he forced her and Tyrion to marry.

That said, since we were introduced to the story of Artos the Implacable through Jon's POV, then I can see him acting as Rickon's regent until he comes of age or dies.

The north is such a goddamn mess right now.

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3 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Can you see Rickon taking Lord Rickard's spot?

I don't think so.  Rickon will become something like Thormund.  Growing in Skagos with wildlings is not going to make him a proper lord.  

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The case for Ricken to be Lord of Winterfell certainly could be defended in the series of ASOIAF.  

One would have to start with the songs, books and heroes mentioned throughout AGOT. 

The symbolism is well established within the world as we know, but my hard drive crashed a year ago, lost all my thoughts, scattered as they are.  

Starting from scratch I would look at it as follows: 

In the prologue, the battle shown is between Ice. Royce is from the Vale, the Others well obviously are Ice. This means that Ice is split and must be made whole. I certainly could be wrong in my understanding, though I kind of doubt it. We also have the mention of a mother and wetnurse, plus eight fallen people. 

With Brans chapter we get the finding of the six Direwolves(five colored, one white), a discussion about nursing them, the mention of a red bitch giving birth to two hounds, and the taking of them back to Winterfell. Not to mention the conversation Bran had with his father.  

So just looking through that mess I would say that the five colored pups are the Old Gods. Lady and Grey Wind have died leaving only three left (Arya, Bran, Rickon) 

Arya’s fate is foreshadowed I believe in the first book, the catspaw dagger is key. If you follow its journey through the first book, it is present in a lot of interesting conversations. The description of the dagger is similar to Arya’s thoughts on the dragon’s tooth below Kings Landing.  

Jon’s fate is found in the two crypt dreams he has in the first book. The first dream the castle is empty, no life is there. He felt compelled to go down to the crypts, states he doesn’t fear the old kings of winter, and needed to travel deeper in to darkness with no light to guide his way until he screams. He awakes, Ghost is with him and he feels comforted. 

Jon is searching for his family or a sense of belonging to a pack. What he finds is his Mother (Ghost), she gives him warmth and comfort. In the darkness she gives Light, much like the Moon during the night. 

The second dream he states he looking for his Father, goes further than before, hears scrapes of stone on stone, sees vaults opening with dead kings stumbling from their grave. He wakes up in pitch-black darkness, his heart hammering and Ghost is unable to comfort him from his deep sense of terror. 

Jon now has a mother and goes back down into the crypts in search of his Father. He doesn’t need the Light to guide his way having received it from his Mother the first time. He comes out carrying darkness this time, with Ghost by his side but now feeling a sense of terror. 

Those two dreams are setting up for AA/TPTWP or echoes of it at least. I am not truly learned but I can only say what I see, not necessarily that I know.  

It does appear Ned’s honor shielded him from someone noticing that he was duel-wielding dragons. Which I think was the point of this mummer’s show because it allows Arya to get close enough kill with the dagger. Just like Cerwyn of Mirrorshield, the dragon thought it saw its own blood in the reflection only to mortally find out it wasn’t. 

I haven’t fully thought it out, but I think the symbolism can be found to be honest.   

It’s difficult trying to figure out the maze. I am pretty sure I know that the Battle of the Bells is the starting point/ending of a cycle. That there is three and half cycles to come if that is what GRRM wants. He could always end at three. Plus, it may take three cycles for each third cycle, the possibilities are endless. I figured that is why Spare Boot appeared in the book near Jon. Maybe I’m reading into it too much, I don’t know, it’s exhausting. 

Guess, I’m a glutton of punishment for the things I love. I do love the world he created where endless stories are waiting to be discovered. I bought Fire and Blood, haven’t begun to read it though. I don’t see the point when I can’t truly understand the books in the series. When TWOW comes out, I’m certainly reading that. I have invested plenty of time thinking about it so I am sure going to finish ASOIAF.  

I am sure you understand my frustration of not being able to have these discussions, or at least read of discussions that have occurred before. I watched Radio Westeros and In Deep Geek because I felt they truly know what they are talking about. I would like to understand them when they talk, but mostly I listened for the symbolism and enjoy their passion for this world. 

I don’t think I really answered anything, my brain is tired and I should stop before I make a fool of myself. Appreciate the kindness you shown me, off to my brothers for dinner tomorrow. Perhaps I will check back when I get home and maybe have a coherent thought or two for you. Today I likely failed. Cheers! 

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5 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

With new Martin's interview, he said secondary characters fate might differ from the show - and in case of Rickon they most probably will.

Can you see Rickon taking Lord Rickard's spot?

I doubt it.

I think there's a problem with Ned's kids, all of Ned's kids, that keeps them from counting as "Starks" for the purposes of the mostly-forgotten treaty between the Children and the First Men. I suspect the problem is Catelyn's Whent genes, genes that propagate the Harrenhal anti-magic effect in a small radius even apart from Harrenhal itself.

As such, the Lord of Winterfell has to be a Stark descendant without any Hoare blood: in other words Jon, or more likely, Jon and Daenery's eventual child.

As to what Rickon's purpose could be in a narrative sense, I rather suspect he doesn't have one. The gardener planted a seed, and lo, it did not sprout.

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6 hours ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

With new Martin's interview, he said secondary characters fate might differ from the show - and in case of Rickon they most probably will.

Can you see Rickon taking Lord Rickard's spot?

Maybe. Maybe not

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Posted (edited)

While I do agree that Rickon´s role will differ from the TV-show he will not be the lord of Winterfell. He will most likely be a prince among the wildlings. The Prince of Skagos. As for who will rule in the North it will be Jon and Sansa together. They are the only ones who refer themselves as the blood of Winterfell, both of them are the only ones who dream of rebuilding Winterfell (and Sansa does that quite literally in her last ASOS chapter. And in the same chapter the dawn and new day is awfully a lot mentioned. It´s GRRM way of letting us know that Sansa will be one of those who will live in the end). And though all of the Stark children long for the pack Sansa and Jon are, once again, the only ones who dream to have a family of their own. Jon dreams of having a son who looks like Robb, Sansa dreams of having a daughter who looks like Arya. Those children they will only have with each other. This is a huge hint that the Stark Line will continue through them. In both of their narratives King and Queenhood is awfully a lot mentioned. Sansa and Jon will rule the North as King and Queen and bring a new era - just like Henry VII/Elizabeth York (historical figures Sansa and Jon are most like) brought the Tudor Era. 

Edited by Queen Sansa Stark

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Posted (edited)

Yes of course. He is the last chance of continuing House Stark through the male line (Jon being a Stark through the female line).

Jon will be King, Sansa will be a Lady somewhere in the South, Bran will join the Heart Tree in Winterfell’s godswood, and Rickon will be Lord of Winterfell.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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10 hours ago, Lady Anna said:

Yes, I think he may become either Lord of Winterfell or King in the North at the very end, maybe with Sansa as regent. 

I agree with this. I’ve been thinking a long time that Rickon will be Lord of Winterfell or king of the North at the end.

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I find it funny how everyone ignores all the the fact I laid down. We need to stop looking things at face value and follow the narrative and foreshadowing that has been sprinkled all over ASOIAF. At this point the most likely to rule in the North are Sansa and Jon together . 

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8 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

I doubt it.

I think there's a problem with Ned's kids, all of Ned's kids, that keeps them from counting as "Starks" for the purposes of the mostly-forgotten treaty between the Children and the First Men. I suspect the problem is Catelyn's Whent genes, genes that propagate the Harrenhal anti-magic effect in a small radius even apart from Harrenhal itself.

As such, the Lord of Winterfell has to be a Stark descendant without any Hoare blood: in other words Jon, or more likely, Jon and Daenery's eventual child.

As to what Rickon's purpose could be in a narrative sense, I rather suspect he doesn't have one. The gardener planted a seed, and lo, it did not sprout.

What? No! The direwolves were sent by someone or something behind the Wall, and all the children of Winterfell bonded successfully. Whatever the Stark gift is, the current generation has it, just as the old lords and kings did.

I'd not heard a Harrenhal anti-magic theory - sounds interesting? But I've always thought Cat's heritage strengthens the Starks, because of time being a river and all that. She's not in opposition: in many ways, Cat had more empathy with the direwolves than Ned ever had, maybe Robb too.

I don't see Rickon dying soon - the black wolf balances the white one. Probably he'll live as long as Jon does.

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15 hours ago, Shpati said:

 Sansa may have a shot as Winterfell, but she can't carry the Stark name.

 

Of course she can. Don't you remember that during the discussions about the Hornwood inheritance it was explicitly mentioned how the Tallhart boy, the nephew of the late Lord Hornwood through his mother, would have taken his uncle's family name if chosen as his heir? Or how Ser Joffrey Lydden took his Lannister wife's name in the World Book?

 

10 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

 I suspect the problem is Catelyn's Whent genes, genes that propagate the Harrenhal anti-magic effect in a small radius even apart from Harrenhal itself.

Aren't you forgetting that Bran has the strongest magic of all the young Starks including Jon? And that Arya also seems to be a more powerful skin-changer than Jon, since she can do it with cats too and across the length of the Narrow Sea with her direwolf?

Not to mention that Euron, who is much more likely to have some Hoare blood than the Whents (why would they have had any at all?) is pretty magical himself.

 

3 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yes of course. He is the last chance of continuing House Stark through the male line (Jon being a Stark through the female line).

Why should anybody care? A House thousands of years old must have continued through the female line a few times already.

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6 hours ago, Springwatch said:

What? No! The direwolves were sent by someone or something behind the Wall, and all the children of Winterfell bonded successfully. Whatever the Stark gift is, the current generation has it, just as the old lords and kings did.

I think the problem is that Winter is a doomsday weapon set on a "Deadman's Switch". It's not deliberately triggered by the Children of the Forest, it's set to activate if certain conditions are not met. The "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" clause of the treaty is a part of that. The Winter detects Starks via their above-average psychic intercompatibility with their own Greenseer network.

The Children and/or Bloodraven sent the Direwolves, presumably because they don't want the Winter to come any more than humans do, and the Direwolves seem to be able to create psychic connections despite interference. This is why Summer can "feel" Ghost even when Ghost is beyond the wall, even though Jon himself cannot while the wall separates them. Bran contacts Jon with the wall between them, but explicitly uses the connection between Summer and Ghost to do so. If the Direwolves can connect to each other despite the wall, maybe they can connect despite the Null effect of the Hoare bloodline as well.

So think of the Direwolves like a signal booster. And maybe that plan even worked, and delayed the advance of Winter for a while, right up until the last Starks and their Wolves were forced to flee Winterfell.

Quote

I'd not heard a Harrenhal anti-magic theory - sounds interesting?

It's a complicated hypothesis. In short:

  • The Grey King of the Iron Islands carried a unique psychic talent that interfered with other forms of magic, protecting himself and perhaps those very near him from psychic meddling as long as he wasn't unconscious (sleep is fine, a coma/NDE is not. Drowning seems to do the trick).
  • The Seastone Chair magnifies this power, and expands it to the entire island chain. Notably, Lonely Light is outside its radius, which is why magic persists there. This is why the the Ironborn, alone among the first men, did not convert to the worship of the Weirwoods, as mythologized in the story of Ygg the Demon Tree. The only religion that could take root there is that of the Drowned God, one that notably requires it's members to undergo a near-death experience, a condition that disables the Null effect and allows for psychic contact.
  • Harrenhal was designed to be a massive Seastone Chair, one that could cover the entire world in the Null effect, canceling out all magic and driving creatures that rely on magic to extinction. Aegon suddenly realizing he had to take over Westeros on the day Harren took up residence within the castle is not a coincidence.
  • The date dragons stopped being able to breed closely aligns with the date that House Lothston took possession of Harrenhal, and the date Daenery's dragons were born closely aligns with the period of time during which the last Whent is driven from Harrenhal.
  • Presumably Harrenhal's effective radius is reduced due to damage caused by Aegon's dragonfire. This is why Asshai is still capable of producing magic even during Lothston/Whent residence within the castle, and why Daenerys was being taken to Asshai to hatch her dragons.

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I absolutely adore Rickon. I would love nothing more than for him to be the new Lord Stark, if Bran decides he can't be a lord as a greenseer, but I think the North will change its laws of succession to mirror those of Dorne and Sansa will be the Lady of Winterfell at the end. TWOIAF notes that Dorne and the North have some similarities, relative to the rest of Westeros, which seems to indicate this. All I want at this point is for The Black Wolf to live, and become a great warrior just like his uncle Brynden, learning swordsmanship from Jon and Arya, skinchanging from Bran, courtesy and politics from Sansa, and free folk wisdom from Osha. He may even possibly become Lord of the Dreadfort, and his sister's fiercest supporter and devoted shield. 

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1 minute ago, Headless Wolf said:

I absolutely adore Rickon. I would love nothing more than for him to be the new Lord Stark, if Bran decides he can't be a lord as a greenseer, but I think the North will change its laws of succession to mirror those of Dorne and Sansa will be the Lady of Winterfell at the end. TWOIAF notes that Dorne and the North have some similarities, relative to the rest of Westeros, which seems to indicate this. All I want at this point is for The Black Wolf to live, and become a great warrior just like his uncle Brynden, learning swordsmanship from Jon and Arya, skinchanging from Bran, courtesy and politics from Sansa, and free folk wisdom from Osha. He may even possibly become Lord of the Dreadfort, and his sister's fiercest supporter and devoted shield. 

I like Rickon too, he seems like he can become the typical Stark Lord with Wolfs blood in him. 

I really doubt the North will change its succession laws to the ones adopted by house Martell. The Martells and other dornish houses follow the succession laws of the Rhoynar. And i cant see a kingdom of First men descent, whom still consider martial the most important aspect of a ruler, accepting this succession law. Out of all the kingdoms in Westeros The Iron Islands and the North are the two kingdoms where it is very unlikely that you'll see this sort of law implemented. 

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