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Like I wrote, I couldn't find what I thought to be an accurate timeline but debating the difference between two years vs. seven doesn't change the overall point: the last 1/3 of someone's life is not more profound than the first 2/3s of it regardless of how significant those events are. She was fully supportive of her brother's right to the throne even though she despised him. Her arc has been about convincing herself of her fitness and rightness to rule, but that developed in the absence of any other Targs as far as she knows.

However they choose to slice ruling behind closed doors, in public they'll abide by the rules and legitimate claims to the throne or their status wouldn't be seen by anyone as valid. After it's revealed that Jon is the true successor to the throne whereas she is not, it won't be her throne anymore except in her lustful desire, it won't be her throne anymore in his eyes even if he doesn't care to wear the crown, and her rule wouldn't be understood as legitimate by anyone else. If she ignores all of that, her personal desires will abrade against tradition and law. There is no realistic scenario where Jon is revealed as having the stronger claim, they marry, he either abdicates the throne to her or she just usurps him, and then everyone agrees to that arrangement. Maybe the script will set that up, but it's a strange stretch unless they really do develop her into something she hasn't been so far. Unless we also conclude she thinks anyone can ride dragons, she now knows Jon's not a mere mortal (pardon the pun) on top of everything else.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, bizzle said:

There is no realistic scenario where Jon is revealed as having the stronger claim, they marry, he either abdicates the throne to her or she just usurps him, and then everyone agrees to that arrangement. 

Agreed. I hope know one believes that anyway.

It is very unlikely that Daenerys will sit the Iron Throne anyway. 

(Just to the timeline: The years are pretty clear and there is no need to "opinions" here.)

Edited by Kajjo

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1 hour ago, bizzle said:

After it's revealed that Jon is the true successor to the throne whereas she is not, it won't be her throne anymore except in her lustful desire, it won't be her throne anymore in his eyes even if he doesn't care to wear the crown, and her rule wouldn't be understood as legitimate by anyone else. 

There is something called "ruling by means of conquest", which is exactly what she would be doing in that scenario.
Robert wasn't in the line of succession, he didn't have a legitimate claim to the throne, but he took it by force, and "no one" considered him an unlawful king. 

The whole "rightful heir"-talk the show is forcing down our throats is absolute bullshit and shows that the writers have no clue even after all these years. 
The Targaryens lost the throne during Roberts Rebellion, any potential claim they have is just as strong as the army they bring in order to take it back. 
Jon is ahead of Daenerys in the "line of succession", but he has no real claim to the throne - he's the son of a dead man who's father was deposed from the throne 23 years ago - and he has no army to enforce his claim. 
Cersei currently sits on the throne, and she won't abdicate just because Jon asks nicely and brings up his lineage. 
Daenerys is on the same boat, she has no real claim either, just her fathers name. 

Whoever sits on the throne in the end (if anyone sits on it at all), it will be someone who took it with some modicum of force, or simply because they're the last man (or woman) standing. 

 

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3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Extremely unlikely. 

All important people in Winterfell are aware of the threat of the Army of the Death. They all are in there together.

Even the Lyanna Mormont didn't question the efforts together, she was just disappointed of Jon Snow. Sansa and Daenerys will have conflicts, but the Army of the Death is the priority at the moment. It makes no sense whatever to believe differently.

Really? How do you come to that guess? Has Dany ever left the command to someone else? Why should she want to flee? She was always a fighter.

 

That's wrong.

Roughly one year per seasons, we are now in year 304-305 AC. For example, Baelish dies in 304 AC, end of season 7. 

 

Could be because Jon is the king and she is pregnant and Jon tells her that if he dies then she could carry on the fight or something like that.

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53 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

Refresh my memory, what rightful claim did Aegon the Conqueror have to the 7 kingdoms again?

He concurred them and united them under one ruler (save Dorne, but that’s another story).

In the books, Robert was allowed to take the throne because he had Targaryen blood (even though they don’t mention this in the show).  Jon and Dany still have a legitimate claim because of their bloodlines.  I wonder how a show will handle this (I know it will be different in the books).

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On 4/20/2019 at 1:59 AM, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

HI all

got a feeling dany is going to leave on drogon once Jon reveals the news of his parent. She is totally in love with him and this is going to be devastating for her. Dany and drogon could give the north the edge in battle and the showrunners might not want this. I have a feeling she is going to leave and this is so sad. any thoughts? I mean this also means leaving her advisors and troops. how smug will the north feel then. I was hoping she would win over the north but I am not so sure now

I wish they don't reveal the secret before everybody else. Somethings are better when kept secret. 

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2 hours ago, Twinklingmoon said:

I wish they don't reveal the secret before everybody else. Somethings are better when kept secret. 

I think Jon tells Sansa and Arya. He tells Dany separately and she tells her advisors. But once that many people know  a lot more people will know. 

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If Daenerys leaves, I think she will leave because Jon will ask her to. And Jon will ask her to once they all find out that she is pregnant (!!!)

Before she leaves though the two of them will be married in the godswood. That's my head-canon. And it's the only way to prevent any lingering discord. Marry their two claims together.

On 4/19/2019 at 4:47 PM, MinscS2 said:

 

As long as she's not totally indifferent about it...

LOL

The irony is delicious.

 

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Posted (edited)

I personally think Dany will betray everyone and depart on Drogon with her surviving army, halfway through the battle.

The quest for the Irone Throne is her war, her ambition. She only decided to fight the Night King for (a) love of Jon when he was just Jon and (b) because it got personal when the Night King speared her dragon to death.

When she realizes that Jon is no longer just Jon, the man she loved, but a rival claimant - the great game will have changed for her.

When she finds out that Jon has a better claim than she does and is the legal heir under the rules of House Targaryen as legitimate son of the crown prince, I think she may reject the rules even of her own house and deem Jon an enemy.

She likely doesn't believe in the rule of law, whether of her own House or of the land. I can't see her ever giving up her crown as Jon did his for her.

I reckon the early rumours about Tyrion's betrayal were false misdirects spread by HBO itself, so as to deglect us from the real betrayal.

Edited by Krishtotter

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1 minute ago, Krishtotter said:

I personally think Dany will betray everyone and depart on Drogon with her surviving army, halfway through the battle.

The quest Irone Throne is her war, her ambition.

When she finds out that Jon has a better claim than her and is the legal heir under the rules of House Targaryen as legitimate son of the crown prince, I think she will reject the rules even of her own house and deem Jon an enemy.

She doesn't believe in the rule of law, wherever of her own House or of the land. I can't see her ever giving up her crown as Jon did his for her.

Your head-canon is weird...

If the Iron Throne was her her sole ambition, surely there was no point in her going north to begin with last season?
She would've roasted Cersei and claimed the throne in episode 5 last season, all while giving the finger to both Jon and the North.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Your head-canon is weird...

If the Iron Throne was her her sole ambition, surely there was no point in her going north to begin with last season?
She would've roasted Cersei and claimed the throne in episode 5 last season, all while giving the finger to both Jon and the North.

Nope, she went north with her dragon at first purely to save Jon because he was in grave peril, not because she wanted to involve herself in his coming war with the Night King.

Then, when the Night King killed her dragon, she wanted vengeance (understandably) for the death of one of her children. That made it personal but defeating him is still a subsidiary, for her, to acquiring the Iron Throne.

She was willing to tolerate a brief truce with Cersei for the sake of Jon, whom she loves, and for personal revenge.

Jon's claim to the throne changes it all up, including her calculus.

Edited by Krishtotter

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Posted (edited)

So she went north to save Jon, and to get vengeance on the Nightking.

And now you think she's suddenly gonna abandon Jon mid-fight (making her whole expedition to save him pointless), and leave before getting vengeance on the Nightking?

Nice logic.

Edited by MinscS2

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

And now you think she's suddenly gonna abandon Jon mid-fight (making her whole expedition to save him pointless), and leave before getting vengeance on the Nightking?

Yes because he is no longer Jon Snow, bastard King in the North, but Aegon Targaryen.

Remember the Dance of the Dragons civil war? Targaryens don't take the news of rival claimants from their own family very well.

Jon will not view himself as a claimant (he takes his pledge of allegiance to Dany seriously) but I do believe Dany will. I hope I'm wrong and she surprises me.

Edited by Krishtotter

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Krishtotter said:

Yes because he is no longer Jon Snow, bastard King in the North, but Aegon Targaryen.

Who is a entirely different person than Jon Snow I take it?
New name, same guy, but now her love instantly turns to hate because of reasons.

Look, I know you have a strong dislike for Daenerys, who you consider to be GoT's equivalent to Robespierre, but you're letting this dislike cloud your judgement right now, because you're making no sense what so ever in your last couple of posts in this thread.

Edit: And you gotta stop editing your posts after I've replied to them. You're coming across as disingenuous. 

Edited by MinscS2

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Who is a entirely different person than Jon Snow I take it?
New name, same guy, but now her love instantly turns to hate because of reasons.

Look, I know you have a strong dislike for Daenerys, who you consider to be GoT's equivalent to Robespierre, but you're letting this dislike cloud your judgement right now, because you're making no sense what so ever in your last couple of posts in this thread.

 

Of course he is the same person but will Dany view him in the same way?

If she is the person you seem to think she is, then yes - Dany, after a freak out moment taking it in, will trust that Jon is no threat to her power because he takes his pledge to her as queen to be final, by his honour, and so she will focus all her attention with him on defeating the Night King.

But, if Dany is the type of person I think she is, then she will not do this, because the paranoid doubts will grow in her that either Jon has eyes for the throne (even though he doesn't) or that if everyone else finds out about his true heritage, they will prefer him to her. If she's the kind of person I think she is, nothing and nobody will stand in the way of her getting that throne she believes is her birthright, and when it comes down to it - like Cersei - that's the war she really, truly cares about if Jon is no longer just plain old Jon Snow.

My Dany would betray anyone and anything for the pursuit of the ideals and ambition she holds dearest, yours wouldn't.

It's still an open question which Dany is the real Dany.

Edited by Krishtotter

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1 minute ago, Krishtotter said:

Of course he is the same person but will Dany view him in the same way?

If she is the person you seem to think she is, then yes - Dany, after a freak out moment taking it in, will trust that Jon is no threat to her power because he takes his pledge to her as queen to be final, by his honour, and so she will focus all her attention with him on defeating the Night King.

But, if Dany is the type of person I think she is, then she will not do this. If she's the kind of person I think she is, nothing and nobody will stand in the way of her getting that throne she believes is her birthright, and when it comes down to it - like Cersei - that's the war she really, truly cares about.

Fair enough. We'll see who got it right in soon enough.

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

Fair enough. We'll see who got it right in soon enough.

Yes that we can agree on, and I'll raise a drink to you if you were right about her personality at the end of all of this!

I really think it is an open question at this stage, with pieces of evidence backing both of our positions, depending on how you look at it.

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28 minutes ago, Krishtotter said:

Yes because he is no longer Jon Snow, bastard King in the North, but Aegon Targaryen.

Remember the Dance of the Dragons civil war? Targaryens don't take the news of rival claimants from their own family very well.

Jon will not view himself as a claimant (he takes his pledge of allegiance to Dany seriously) but I do believe Dany will. I hope I'm wrong and she surprises me.

She still needs her army.  She can't just leave without them.

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