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Greenmonsterff

Song of Ice and Fire

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Is this supposed to mean Jon and Daenerys? Or the White Walkers vs. the Dragons? Or is Jon the product of Ice (Starks, wardens of the North) and Fire (Targaryens, Fire and ?Blood)? Or is it something different altogether?

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We still don't know. Any of those can be correct... We are waiting for "The Winds of Winter"

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Could be one meaning, could be multiple. Could be Walkers VS Dragons, could be Jon, Could be the love story of Dany/Jon, could possibly be the child of Dany and Jon. The closest answer we have gotten is from Melisandre when she said she has brought Ice and Fire together - Jon and Dany. I doubt we will ever get a final and clear answer.

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59 minutes ago, Bran Snow said:

I see it as the tale of Jon Snow as he is the product of both ice (Stark) and fire (Targaryen).

That’s the way I see it. But Jon was raised as a Stark child (ice) and Dany is all Targaryen (fire). Even the last episode of season 7 the wolf and the dragon can be about Jon or his parents. Or Jon (The White Wolf) and Dany (The Mother of Dragons). 

 

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It could be Jon.
It could be Jon and Daenerys.
It could be Rhaegar and Lyanna.
It could be a metaphor for death (ice) and life (fire).
It could simply be Ice and Fire, seeing as both "elements" are very prominent throughout the series.

We don't know yet.

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Ice and fire are things happening on the periphary of Westeros that pose a threat to it. As in, two dangers that could assure destruction of a large group of people. This matches the Frost poem of the same title.

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Posted (edited)

I agree it has multiple meanings and interpretations. I honestly think it starts with R'hllor(Fire) vs. The Great Other (Ice). The show doesn't really introduce the Great Other though so it may not have any significant meaning and is mostly symbolic. Then you have The Prince that was Promised(Fire) vs. The Darkness(Ice). Then you can stretch this out to mean any number of things, Jon Snow (Ice) vs. Dany (Fire). Rhaeger (Fire) vs. Lyanna (Ice.) The Others(Ice) vs. Azor Ahai/Dragons/Whoever(Fire.)

Definitely supposed to repeat throughout the novels.

Edited by Kristoff

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I dont think ice vs. fire with ice being bad and fire being good fits the story. That sounds like a Mel/Rhllor perspective which comes from religious/cult like thinking. 

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GRRM said Dany/dragons are fire and the Others are ice, and these bookend AGOT. Wouldn't be surprised to see variations on this as that seems to be the case with other things. 

In rereading TWOIAF's Rhoynar sections, the roles of fire and ice/water are reversed in Valyrian slavers (fire) destroying the watery hippie wonderland of the Rhoynar. North of the Wall where it's icy, being kissed by fire is lucky. In a hot place, anything cold is valued. Rather than absolutist views of fire and ice being bad, or good (both fire and ice can burn), I think the problem is imbalances and extremes. One of the most prominent places we see this is in the erratic seasons. 

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Rhaegar specifically identified the song of ice and fire as the prince that was promised. There's also evidence that he thought it was synonymous with Aegon reborn hence he named his son Aegon, his daughter Rhaenys, and talk as if there needed to be a third head. Elia couldn't have another child, and he ran off with Lyanna. I think he expected to have a daughter he'd named Visenya so it would be Aegon and his two sister-wives again. That wasn't the case, and a boy was born.

It's why I think Jon's name really is Aegon. If a boy was born, it wasn't the previous Aegon that would be the prince that promised, it would be Jon, or so I think Rhaegar believed. Jon is also the fulfillment of the pact of ice and fire, so it would make sense for him to fit as the song of ice and fire.

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Posted (edited)

Evidence points that Rhaegar was expecting the prince that was promised to be Aegon the Conqueror reborn. He named his son Aegon and his daughter Rhaenys. He probably expected a second daughter as the third head of the dragon who he'd name Visenya. However, he didn't have one, so I could very well see him name his second son as Aegon since he may no longer consider his first son to be Aegon reborn. He may have expected to have more children with Lyanna who'd he then name Visenya and Rhaenys

It's also possible that he realized before he ran off with Lyanna that the children with Elia wouldn't be the prince that was promised and his sisters since she could no longer have children anymore.

Edited by longest night

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The whole thing about the Song of Ice and Fire is really just a big misdirect. We have actually already heard the song. A song is just a story and Tormund told one such story earlier. Tormund who is kissed by fire (red hair) told the story of how he slept with a bear. The bears North of the wall are snow bears (Ice). So, Tormund's story was the song of Ice and Fire.

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