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D2procon

The white walkers want Jon Snow alive???

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I was watching the scene in Hardhome S05E8 and can't help but to notice that the white walker was in perfect position to kill Jon Snow. He broke his sword, and rather than stabbing him, he hit him with the blunt side of the weapon. He wasted no time killing Thenn. I wonder if they wanted to capture Jon Snow for a reason??? Does the Night King want him for some reason to advance his plan??? Even the creators said it themselves as Jon Snow was rowing away from Dead, and the Night King was eyeing him"He was looking at Jon with Intrigue"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm not sure they really want him alive for anything. I think it was simply a way to prolong the fight scene and to show that normal weapons can't stand against their ice weapons. This plays into Jon using Longclaw to block the ice blade before killing the WW. As far as the Intrigue look? I would stay the NK sees Jon as a worthy opponent. They have just plowed through everyone they've come across but here you have Jon leading a fight against them.

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I feel like the White Walker didn't kill him straight away because he was taunting him. It was a way to show the audience that they aren't simply just this emotionless killing machine. 

I'm not sure that the Night King wants Jon alive, he was just looking at Jon with interest because that is probably the first time in about 8000 years where he has seen one of his men die. 

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15 hours ago, D2procon said:

can't help but to notice that the white walker was in perfect position to kill Jon Snow.

I don't understand what you mean. Can you give the exact time in the following video, please?

 

15 hours ago, D2procon said:

He broke his sword, and rather than stabbing him

Where does he break his sword? The swords clash, the White Walker is very certain that Jon Snows steel sword will decompose, but it holds up, because it is Valyrian steel. The white Walker is obviously surprise and shocked and Jon can kill him shortly after.

This shows (1) that the White Walkers have not been aware of Valyrian steel being immune to their ice swords or probabyl not aware of Valyrian steel at all. It shows (2) that White Walkers are thinking entities with emotions, here expectation, surprise and shock.

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

I don't understand what you mean. Can you give the exact time in the following video, please?

 

Where does he break his sword? The swords clash, the White Walker is very certain that Jon Snows steel sword will decompose, but it holds up, because it is Valyrian steel. The white Walker is obviously surprise and shocked and Jon can kill him shortly after.

This shows (1) that the White Walkers have not been aware of Valyrian steel being immune to their ice swords or probabyl not aware of Valyrian steel at all. It shows (2) that White Walkers are thinking entities with emotions, here expectation, surprise and shock.

Great season. I forgot what happened?

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7 hours ago, Kajjo said:

I don't understand what you mean. Can you give the exact time in the following video, please?

 

Where does he break his sword? The swords clash, the White Walker is very certain that Jon Snows steel sword will decompose, but it holds up, because it is Valyrian steel. The white Walker is obviously surprise and shocked and Jon can kill him shortly after.

This shows (1) that the White Walkers have not been aware of Valyrian steel being immune to their ice swords or probabyl not aware of Valyrian steel at all. It shows (2) that White Walkers are thinking entities with emotions, here expectation, surprise and shock.

Seriously??? Start at 1:50. Clearly all the white walker had to do was walk up to him and stab him in the back or just swing at him. But he pulled him away????? 

- Skip to 2:20. HE breaks Jon snow's sword and then hits him with the back of his weapon

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7 hours ago, D2procon said:

Seriously

Yes

7 hours ago, D2procon said:

Start at 1:50. Clearly all the white walker had to do was walk up to him and stab him in the back

I agree, pulling him back is a bit weird.

But then again, at 3:00 he start a deathly strike anyway. So that would have killed Jon Snow if not for his Valyrian sword.

7 hours ago, D2procon said:

Skip to 2:20. HE breaks Jon snow's sword and then hits him with the back of his weapon

Yes, I agree, weird fighting scene. Difficult to tell whether this is just bad choreography or a hidden clue.

So after all, yes, maybe they want him alive. Or maybe not.

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We don't know the exact nature of his and Jon's relationship, but there exists enough hints sprinkled throughout that we ought not ignore the implications of a familial relationship between the two.

I believe there were actually two instances where it seemed an obvious, deliberate choice to spare Jon: this one and at the frozen lake. The frozen lake sparing is often attributing to the NK's alleged abilities to either see the future or present things going on elsewhere but the bottom line is they he knew a dragon was coming and wanted it. The other explanation of that interaction, which would also explain this one, is that the NK *can't* or at least *won't* kill Jon.

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21 minutes ago, bizzle said:

The other explanation of that interaction, which would also explain this one, is that the NK *can't* or at least *won't* kill Jon.

We will see. Very difficult to predict, because of very unclear clues.

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Posted (edited)

They have to keep everything unclear when presenting a story visually, otherwise it would be too obvious. And it's not like the White Walkers can talk and drop subtle dialogue clues like Roose Bolton did about the Red Wedding and other examples.

I would not be surprised if the NK wants to replace himself with Jon Snow - that the true meaning of the Nights Watch has been forgotten, or something, and Jon is been selected as the new silent, frozen protector of the magic in Westeros or something similar.

Edited by ummester

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Posted (edited)

It's hard to say because it could just be plot armor.  Hardhome happened off page in the books, and was just added to the show so that we could get a cool action sequence (which I understand...every season of a show like this needs multiple action sequences).

But I do feel like the Starks are in some way connected to the Walkers. 

Edited by briantw

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On 4/19/2019 at 9:48 PM, D2procon said:

I was watching the scene in Hardhome S05E8 and can't help but to notice that the white walker was in perfect position to kill Jon Snow. He broke his sword, and rather than stabbing him, he hit him with the blunt side of the weapon. He wasted no time killing Thenn. I wonder if they wanted to capture Jon Snow for a reason??? Does the Night King want him for some reason to advance his plan??? Even the creators said it themselves as Jon Snow was rowing away from Dead, and the Night King was eyeing him"He was looking at Jon with Intrigue"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Night King definitely has a thang goin on with Jon. I don't know if it's because he's Bran's cousin, or what. But he could easily have received an ice spear through the heart when the Army of the Dead had the Magnificent Seven surrounded.

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17 minutes ago, briantw said:

It's hard to say because it could just be plot armor.  Hardhome happened off page in the books, and was just added to the show so that we could get a cool action sequence (which I understand...every season of a show like this needs multiple action sequences).

But I do feel like the Starks are in some way connected to the Walkers. 

Hardhome happened off page but it is reasonably clear Jon will have a similar WW battle and discover that Valyerian steel is key.

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Just now, darmody said:

The Night King definitely has a thang goin on with Jon. I don't know if it's because he's Bran's cousin, or what. But he could easily have received an ice spear through the heart when the Army of the Dead had the Magnificent Seven surrounded.

He also openly taunted Jon.

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18 minutes ago, briantw said:

It's hard to say because it could just be plot armor.  Hardhome happened off page in the books, and was just added to the show so that we could get a cool action sequence (which I understand...every season of a show like this needs multiple action sequences).

But I do feel like the Starks are in some way connected to the Walkers. 

And Hardhomme was one of the best battle scenes in the series, IMO.

The Starks are one of the oldest families, descended from the First Men. The children of the forest created the WW by plunging a dragonglass dagger into the heart of one of the First Men, maybe a Stark? Who knows?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

And Hardhomme was one of the best battle scenes in the series, IMO.

The Starks are one of the oldest families, descended from the First Men. The children of the forest created the WW by plunging a dragonglass dagger into the heart of one of the First Men, maybe a Stark? Who knows?

Given that we haven't heard Bran's monologue from the trailers about coming home yet on the show, with Jon and Jaime being the obvious recipients, maybe he says it to the Night King?

Edited by briantw

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1 minute ago, briantw said:

Given that we haven't heard Bran's monologue from the trailers about coming home yet on the show, with Jon and Jaime being the obvious recipients, maybe he says it to the Night King?

Don't know what trailer you're referring to. Can you post a link please?

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Just now, SansaJonRule said:

Don't know what trailer you're referring to. Can you post a link please?

There's only been one real trailer for this season.

Line starts around 28 second in.

Bran says: "Everything you did brought you to where you are now.  Where you belong,  Home."

I figured he'd say that to Jon in episode one, but as far as I can recall he never did.  Jaime was the back-up recipient of the line.  But it makes little sense for it to happen now.  Jaime and Jon have both interacted with Bran and we haven't heard that line.

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3 minutes ago, briantw said:

There's only been one real trailer for this season.

Line starts around 28 second in.

Bran says: "Everything you did brought you to where you are now.  Where you belong,  Home."

I figured he'd say that to Jon in episode one, but as far as I can recall he never did.  Jaime was the back-up recipient of the line.  But it makes little sense for it to happen now.  Jaime and Jon have both interacted with Bran and we haven't heard that line.

It could be Jon, Arya or Sansa, although Sansa seems least likely since she's been at Winterfell since she married Ramsay. He didn't say it in Ep1, so it is still to come. A lot in that trailer is still to come.

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Just now, SansaJonRule said:

It could be Jon, Arya or Sansa, although Sansa seems least likely since she's been at Winterfell since she married Ramsay. He didn't say it in Ep1, so it is still to come. A lot in that trailer is still to come.

I figure that, if he was gonna say it to anyone currently in Winterfell, he already would have.  He's had multiple interactions with every character listed now (plus Jaime, who I thought was the dark horse recipient of that line).

So I think there's a chance he says it to the Night King, who is probably a Stark. 

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