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SPOILERS: Rant and Rave


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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Oh, okay, then I forgot that part. But he also fed the slain guest to his father, another guest. I'd be surprised if the gods were not considering that breaking of guest right, too.

It is odd, though, how the story never elaborates exactly how the son died. I mean, as you point out, it is implied/claimed he was a guest, too, but it would be great to know how this transpired and also why. It is also odd that in the story the focus is on the unintentional cannibalism and not the murder of the king's son as such.

All that makes me inclined to believe that Manderly is truly walking in the shadow of the Rat Cook here - quite intentionally and willingly, yes, but this is not a role you truly want to play in this world. It cannot end well.

It’s not that odd, the whole point of bringing up something as hideous as cannibalism is to make the point that even that isn’t as bad in the eyes of the gods as breaking guest right.

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14 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

It’s not that odd, the whole point of bringing up something as hideous as cannibalism is to make the point that even that isn’t as bad in the eyes of the gods as breaking guest right.

Yeah, but would we say feeding a host/guest a son under the protection of guest right qualifies as upholding guest right?

I'd not say so. Cannibalism as such isn't as accursed to the gods as breaking guest right, but it can, I think, certainly be part of breaking guest right.

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

However, I do look forward to the moment when Roose fully grasps what Wyman has done and understands that he has underestimated the man. I really hope George finds a way to allow us to share that moment. With no POV in Winterfell right now this could get tricky.

One really wonders whether we are going to meet Mance as a new POV in TWoW...

Nope.

I think one of the Greyjoy kids (likely Theon) is going to go back into Winterfell and be the POV. Not as a prisoner but as undercover agent for Stannis. The other Greyjoy will be the POV on the Baratheon side of the fence.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Oh, I expect them to bend the knee to Euron after the Redwyne fleet is destroyed and the Arbor taken by Euron, becoming his royal seat for the time being. From there they can eventually switch to Dany. I very much doubt Euron is going to bother himself with the Hightowers after he has the Arbor. He wants the Iron Throne. He would likely eventually try to take his fleet up the Narrow Sea to take KL from Aegon (which he should have the strength to do). One could see a variation of the Dance here - Euron is Daemon and Aegon Aemond. The trick would be to have Cersei marshal a Western host which Aegon thinks he has to defeat, weakening the defenses of KL in the process.

Who the Hightowers? Or the Tyrells?

I disagree.

Euron chose Oldtown for a reason. There are some really weird things happening at Oldtown -- Faceless Men not being mere assassins, the conspiracies of the maesters, glass candles, the activities of most enigmatic members of the Hightower family and the presence of Sand Snakes -- and GRRM has just moved a POV there.

I think there is something in Oldtown Euron needs/wants and that all his previous campaigns in the Reach are either red herrings or stepping stones. The Redwynes are dead meat. The Hightowers? Uh, I'm not convinced. They're doing a better job of preparing than the Tyrells and the Redwynes.

Euron will screw all of these Reachmen over for The Winds of Winter. But that will end come A Dream of Spring. I think Asha and Theon will be back in the Iron Islands by then and from there Asha will call a Kingsmoot on behalf of Theon.

The timing will be horrendous/perfect (depending on your point of view) because Victarion will be returning to Westeros as Daenerys Targaryen's consort right around the same time. Euron will be forced to stop what he's doing in Oldtown (or, at least, forced to continue his work to do on-the-go instead of say the Citadel) to take care of the three of them. Victarion will be the first victim as he's the bigger threat. In any case, it will take time.

If Euron should need help, Casterly Rock is not far.

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11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Nope.

I think one of the Greyjoy kids (likely Theon) is going to go back into Winterfell and be the POV. Not as a prisoner but as undercover agent for Stannis. The other Greyjoy will be the POV on the Baratheon side of the fence.

Yeah, that could work, but would still not cover the events taking place while they fight at the lake - i.e. a period of days, possibly weeks.

11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Who the Hightowers? Or the Tyrells?

The Hightowers. The Tyrells are never going to be really threatened by the Ironborn. They are too far inland, and Euron didn't leave a large fleet on the Shields, did he?

11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I disagree.

We can cut this short. Euron never gave a damn about anything in the Reach. He threw the Shields at his people so they love him some more and used them as a means to weaken Victarion some more. His plan was to continue directly to Meereen, Dany, and the dragons.

He is just sitting on his ass waiting for Paxter right now because the Reader prevented that he take the entire Ironborn armada to Slaver's Bay. He is just killing time waiting for Dany. He doesn't need anything from Oldtown. And if he wanted something from there his own Faceless Man pet - whoever it was who killed Balon - would bring it to him.

The Hightowers are merchant lords. When Paxter and his fleet are gone, they will be Euron's men ... or they will lose all their wealth. Because their seas will be Euron's and nobody is going to continue the profitable trade with Oldtown without Euron's leave. These people sucked Ironborn cock in the past, they will do it again. They will turn on him the first time they can, though.

If George wanted to send the message that Euron wants something at Oldtown there would have been hints in that direction both in AFfC and Euron would have flat-out told Aeron in the Forsaken. Instead he made it clear he wanted the Iron Throne. Which means that the objective he is truly after and a chair he might actually be sitting on soon. Aeron saw him there - possibly just an image of his fear (just as the shadow-woman beside him just was Aeron's interpretation of Dany rather than an actual vision of her) but one never knows.

Euron already has the strength to take KL by storm. He would not be able to hold it, of course, but he could take it and sit on the throne for a brief time.

11 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Euron will screw all of these Reachmen over for The Winds of Winter. But that will end come A Dream of Spring. I think Asha and Theon will be back in the Iron Islands by then and from there Asha will call a Kingsmoot on behalf of Theon.

Oh, something like that might happen, but who cares? Euron will basically get all the Ironborn killed. Theon or Asha will be stuck with old men, cravens, and young boys. Hopefully the old way will be forgotten.

I expect Euron to continue from the Arbor - which he is going to make his seat because it is an island and thus completely safe while he has superiority at sea - to destroy Sunspear in the east to start the war with Aegon and Arianne. From there he will gather pirates and sellsails around him (Saan, Waters, etc.) and eventually for a powerful anti-Daenerys coalition with the Three Daughters in response to the Dany threat. No Ironborn will get either Dany or a dragon, but Dany will get all the Dothraki, the Volantene fleet, Victarion's ships, and whatever ships are to be had in Qarth and Slaver's Bay. In Volantis the slaves will topple the slavers, but the Three Daughters will butcher their rioters, allying with Euron against her giving us the largest sea battle in the history of the entire world. And this will be the moment where Dany is likely getting her worst blow because she will be attacked at sea when her vast armada will be most vulnerable, especially to a sorcerer like Euron (who is also going to use sorcery to defeat the Redwynes). How this is going to go is unclear, but Dany should win thanks to dragons and perhaps Euron dies then. Even if not, he would likely lose a great part of his strength so he is no longer going to be a powerful factor in the Second Dance, only to come back later with a vengeance.

Dany's precarious position in the Second Dance might have to do with her armada washing up along all the eastern shores of Westeros, basically, thanks to the storm Euron might be summoning. She could also lose her third dragonrider during that fighting, eventually causing Aegon to acquire one of her dragons (she needs two dragonriders to get Viserion and Rhaegal from Meereen to Westeros).

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, but would we say feeding a host/guest a son under the protection of guest right qualifies as upholding guest right?

I'd not say so. Cannibalism as such isn't as accursed to the gods as breaking guest right, but it can, I think, certainly be part of breaking guest right.

This the exact text from the book:


“It was not for murder that the gods
cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to
vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.”

So the text is pretty clear the the only thing that the old gods didn't like is slewing a guest. - Not serving him to to his own father who is also a guest.

 

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4 minutes ago, athmystikal said:

This the exact text from the book:


“It was not for murder that the gods
cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to
vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.”

So the text is pretty clear the the only thing that the old gods didn't like is slewing a guest. - Not serving him to to his own father who is also a guest.

 

That is not exactly what can be drawn from that. When we are precise then the text does not qualify whether the feeding a son to a guest was also a breach of guest right. It merely says that feeding sons to father as means of vengeance is okay in comparison to slaying a guest under your roof.

This does not address what feeding a dead child to a father who happens to be your guest mean insofar as guest right is concerned. One assumes it might be okay if everybody knows that it is tasty son meat and everybody once a bite, but this was apparently not the case in the Rat Cook story, was it? There is a double betrayal there, both the murder of the son who was apparently a guest, too, and then the feeding of said son to his father who also happened to be a guest.

Also, one has to keep in mind that the Rat Cook most definitely didn't have a right to vengeance considering that he seems to have been a man of the Watch and should thus guard the realms or men and not feed the sons of the kings men to their fathers... But that's another question entirely.

And I would maintain that guest right does not just refer to killings but also to otherwise harm your guest/host. The point of such a custom is that people who are in this relationship can expect that nobody stabs the other party in the back while they are host/guest. Feeding your a son to his father does count as such a breach in my book, and we really don't need the fairy-tale for that (after all, nobody believes the Rat Cook ever became a rat nor that the gods truly give a damn who kills who in what context, do we?).

I'd also say that Manderly's slaying of the Freys was also only technically no breaking of guest right. I mean, sure he made a point of ending their status as guests, etc. but killing a man at your door who was your guest is nearly as worse as killing a guest in the house. After all, if you are a guest/host then you basically are not enemies - and even if you were when this relationship started, honestly dictates that you announce that you are now enemies again and do not basically just murder people when they set a foot out the door.

And regardless how deplorable those Freys were, they apparently had no clue that Manderly was going to kill them.

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45 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, that could work, but would still not cover the events taking place while they fight at the lake - i.e. a period of days, possibly weeks.

The Hightowers. The Tyrells are never going to be really threatened by the Ironborn. They are too far inland, and Euron didn't leave a large fleet on the Shields, did he?

We can cut this short. Euron never gave a damn about anything in the Reach. He threw the Shields at his people so they love him some more and used them as a means to weaken Victarion some more. His plan was to continue directly to Meereen, Dany, and the dragons.

He is just sitting on his ass waiting for Paxter right now because the Reader prevented that he take the entire Ironborn armada to Slaver's Bay. He is just killing time waiting for Dany. He doesn't need anything from Oldtown. And if he wanted something from there his own Faceless Man pet - whoever it was who killed Balon - would bring it to him.

The Hightowers are merchant lords. When Paxter and his fleet are gone, they will be Euron's men ... or they will lose all their wealth. Because their seas will be Euron's and nobody is going to continue the profitable trade with Oldtown without Euron's leave. These people sucked Ironborn cock in the past, they will do it again. They will turn on him the first time they can, though.

If George wanted to send the message that Euron wants something at Oldtown there would have been hints in that direction both in AFfC and Euron would have flat-out told Aeron in the Forsaken. Instead he made it clear he wanted the Iron Throne. Which means that the objective he is truly after and a chair he might actually be sitting on soon. Aeron saw him there - possibly just an image of his fear (just as the shadow-woman beside him just was Aeron's interpretation of Dany rather than an actual vision of her) but one never knows.

Euron already has the strength to take KL by storm. He would not be able to hold it, of course, but he could take it and sit on the throne for a brief time.

Oh, something like that might happen, but who cares? Euron will basically get all the Ironborn killed. Theon or Asha will be stuck with old men, cravens, and young boys. Hopefully the old way will be forgotten.

I expect Euron to continue from the Arbor - which he is going to make his seat because it is an island and thus completely safe while he has superiority at sea - to destroy Sunspear in the east to start the war with Aegon and Arianne. From there he will gather pirates and sellsails around him (Saan, Waters, etc.) and eventually for a powerful anti-Daenerys coalition with the Three Daughters in response to the Dany threat. No Ironborn will get either Dany or a dragon, but Dany will get all the Dothraki, the Volantene fleet, Victarion's ships, and whatever ships are to be had in Qarth and Slaver's Bay. In Volantis the slaves will topple the slavers, but the Three Daughters will butcher their rioters, allying with Euron against her giving us the largest sea battle in the history of the entire world. And this will be the moment where Dany is likely getting her worst blow because she will be attacked at sea when her vast armada will be most vulnerable, especially to a sorcerer like Euron (who is also going to use sorcery to defeat the Redwynes). How this is going to go is unclear, but Dany should win thanks to dragons and perhaps Euron dies then. Even if not, he would likely lose a great part of his strength so he is no longer going to be a powerful factor in the Second Dance, only to come back later with a vengeance.

Dany's precarious position in the Second Dance might have to do with her armada washing up along all the eastern shores of Westeros, basically, thanks to the storm Euron might be summoning. She could also lose her third dragonrider during that fighting, eventually causing Aegon to acquire one of her dragons (she needs two dragonriders to get Viserion and Rhaegal from Meereen to Westeros).

Even though I disagree with your version of where the story will go, I still got a nasty chill reading this.

If GRRM pulls this off, Euron is going to be the most frightening thing in the entire story. Someone said in another thread that Euron Greyjoy is what happens when horror invades the fantasy genre. I think between Euron, Qyburn, the Others, a ruthless Daenerys unleashing her monstrosities, Jojenpaste and all of the other freaky not-so-crackpot theories in the Heresy threads, A Dream of Spring is going to be an apocalyptic nightmare.

When what's left of the protagonists get their hands on him, all bets are off. They may have been lucky or skilled enough to survive the Second Dance and the Second Long Night Others...but surviving Euron? God knows that the third time is a charm; if what I think Euron will be is true, I can only imagine only three or four characters surviving this dream and none (apart from Bran) surviving to actually see spring. And judging from how D&D are treating Bran, Bran surviving is laughable because he won't be Bran by the end of it.

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@Lord Varys, why is it so hard for you to just admit you were wrong and let it go? 

19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

That is not exactly what can be drawn from that. When we are precise then the text does not qualify whether the feeding a son to a guest was also a breach of guest right. It merely says that feeding sons to father as means of vengeance is okay in comparison to slaying a guest under your roof.

That’s exactly what one is supposed to understand from the text. 

“It was not for murder that the gods cursed him” - there was only one murder, that of the king’s son. And yet, that isn’t the reason for the gods to curse the Rat Cook.  

nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance.” 

But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive”. 

 

Quote

This does not address what feeding a dead child to a father who happens to be your guest mean insofar as guest right is concerned.

Now you’re even creating a little side story... who said anything about a child? For all we know, the Andal king could have been an old man, with a middle-aged son. And at any rate, your interpretation is wrong. The text does address it, even if by omission, because it makes perfectly clear why the Rat Cook is cursed: for slewing a guest beneath his roof. 

There’s also this: 

TWoIaF, The North

“In the North, they tell the tale of the Rat Cook, who served an Andal king—identified by some as King Tywell II of the Rock, and by others as King Oswell I of the Vale and Mountain—the flesh of the king’s own son, baked into a pie. For this, he was punished by being turned into a monstrous rat that ate its own young. Yet the punishment was incurred not for killing the king’s son, or for feeding him to the king, but for the breaking of guest right.”

 

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38 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That is not exactly what can be drawn from that. When we are precise then the text does not qualify whether the feeding a son to a guest was also a breach of guest right. It merely says that feeding sons to father as means of vengeance is okay in comparison to slaying a guest under your roof.

This does not address what feeding a dead child to a father who happens to be your guest mean insofar as guest right is concerned. One assumes it might be okay if everybody knows that it is tasty son meat and everybody once a bite, but this was apparently not the case in the Rat Cook story, was it? There is a double betrayal there, both the murder of the son who was apparently a guest, too, and then the feeding of said son to his father who also happened to be a guest.

Also, one has to keep in mind that the Rat Cook most definitely didn't have a right to vengeance considering that he seems to have been a man of the Watch and should thus guard the realms or men and not feed the sons of the kings men to their fathers... But that's another question entirely.

And I would maintain that guest right does not just refer to killings but also to otherwise harm your guest/host. The point of such a custom is that people who are in this relationship can expect that nobody stabs the other party in the back while they are host/guest. Feeding your a son to his father does count as such a breach in my book, and we really don't need the fairy-tale for that (after all, nobody believes the Rat Cook ever became a rat nor that the gods truly give a damn who kills who in what context, do we?).

I'd also say that Manderly's slaying of the Freys was also only technically no breaking of guest right. I mean, sure he made a point of ending their status as guests, etc. but killing a man at your door who was your guest is nearly as worse as killing a guest in the house. After all, if you are a guest/host then you basically are not enemies - and even if you were when this relationship started, honestly dictates that you announce that you are now enemies again and do not basically just murder people when they set a foot out the door.

And regardless how deplorable those Freys were, they apparently had no clue that Manderly was going to kill them.

What? You miss the entire point George so painstakingly laid out. The technicality is everything. Your sworn enemy is safe the moment he becomes your guest. And he is fair game again the moment he ceases being your guest. 

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On 4/23/2019 at 8:49 PM, Lollygag said:

HBO knows better than to listen to an author's promises and count on continued standards of quality after Charlaine Harris and True Blood.

Even if everything goes ideally, regular output and consistent quality can't be counted on like they're assembly line items. If this was so important, HBO should have delayed production until GRRM was further along. They knew about the AFFC/ADWD split and the 5 year gap problem when they signed on. They also saw how unlikely it looked that the story could be wrapped up in only 2 more books. 

 

Many problems could have been solved if they'd told George at the outset "Sure, we'd love to adapt your work -- once the book series is completed. No rush. We'll wait." That's what would have happened if they really respected and appreciated the source material and realized what a potential masterpiece they were sitting on...it might have meant waiting another decade, but no one can look at the difference in quality between the early seasons vs. S5 onward and tell me it wouldn't have been worth it...

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Ok, to keep the thread on topic, I wanted to get the terminology for the characters in the show (originally loosely based on book characters) correct.

So, of course we have:

Sandra Bolton, snarky High School senior who is sooo smart (TM), brought to you by the Disney Channel

Carol, who should have been in Desperate Housewives, but somehow ended up in this show, and has now got shipped with this even more annoying character called Urine.

and Judge Dredd of Tarth.

I must admit my ignorance when it comes to the others:

Can I call the smirking serial killer from a revolutionary PC demographic Emma? Or is there a better name out there?

The other soo smart (TM) character, Sandra Bolton's ex-husband (who's starting to remind me of Mason from Santa Barbara), I guess is Tony? (saw that on another thread I think)

The one handed guy who spent the time between sessions riding the length of the continent alone, braving wolf packs, broken men and riverland and northern lords who all have a strong desire to off him, has also got to have a name from the Sopranos? Or shall we go with the more orthodox Prince Charming from Shrek? 

Someone mentioned a Larry, could you please enlighten me who that is please?

And we still have Dragon Lady who's trying to get Sandra Bolton's approval, and her toyboy.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Prince of Porne said:

Many problems could have been solved if they'd told George at the outset "Sure, we'd love to adapt your work -- once the book series is completed. No rush. We'll wait." That's what would have happened if they really respected and appreciated the source material and realized what a potential masterpiece they were sitting on...it might have meant waiting another decade, but no one can look at the difference in quality between the early seasons vs. S5 onward and tell me it wouldn't have been worth it...

Many problems could have also been solved if they were just good writers. Or if they had the sense to hire more writers....looking back, D&D seem to have gotten overwhelmed.

I can't feel too bad for them. They purposely left out large amounts material they didn't care about or didn't feel like adapting (laziness)its importance only for them to realize that they actually really NEEDED that material. But instead of adding that material retroactively to try and cover their ass, they doubled down on their foolishness and the show is now circling the drain, careening to a close.

Like what was the point of restricting season seven to seven episodes and season eight to six episodes. Out of the thirteen episodes, only five will have been extended into feature length movies.

How much you wanna bet that they were the type of fans who stopped caring about the story once the Red Wedding ended?

 

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10 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Like what was the point of restricting season seven to seven episodes and season eight to six episodes.

None.
After years on the show, D&D simply got bored and cut the number of episodes because they want the whole show to be over with so they can start working on something else, and 6-7 episodes takes less work and time than 10.

This whole "writing-fatigue" has really seeped trough and is clearly visible in the show. You can tell that they are bored, when half of the stuff that happens on the show is called fanservice or fanfiction (which, admittedly, isn't necessarily a bad thing) by many of the viewers. Not to mention the amount of visible plotholes and story-arc's that they simply swept under the rug. 

Instead of simply taking a step back and either hiring more writers or simply giving the job to someone more willing, they pushed on, cut down on the number of episodes and quality of writing, which ultimately risks the entire show ending with a damp squib.

In a few weeks, we'll know for sure.


 

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9 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

None.
After years on the show, they simply got bored and shorted down the amount of episodes because they want the whole show to be over with so they can start working on something else, and 6-7 episodes takes less work and time than 10.

This whole "writing-fatigue" has really seeped trough and is clearly visible in the show. You can tell that they are bored, when half of the stuff that happens on the show is called fanservice or fanfiction (which, admittedly, isn't necessarily a bad thing) by many of the viewers. 

Instead of simply taking a step back and either hiring more writers or simply giving the job to someone more willing, they pushed on, cut down on the number of episodes and quality of writing, which ultimately risks the entire show ending with a damp squib.

In a few weeks, we'll know for sure.


 

Right.

Like to keep it real; there is only four episodes left. Granted they are all extended episodes but I still haven't seen the point of them taking a year off. They had enough time to get the story tight enough.

Like there's no reason that we couldn't see Melisandre in Volantis, Euron the Sorcerer in a loose adaptation fo the Forsaken sample chapter and the politics behind the Golden Company in the first episode. Jon could have easily have had a identity crisis-induced panic attack in the first episode.

Instead he just breathes heavily and spends the next episode avoiding Dany.

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Yepp. We've already 1/3 into the last season of the show, and (almost) "nothing" has happened.

I'm honestly curious how D&D will manage to wrap the entire show up in a satisfying way in just 4 episodes, one which will presumably just be a big battle. 

*Fingers crossed, hopes high, expectations low*



 

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1 hour ago, Ser Hedge said:

Ok, to keep the thread on topic, I wanted to get the terminology for the characters in the show (originally loosely based on book characters) correct.

So, of course we have:

Sandra Bolton, snarky High School senior who is sooo smart (TM), brought to you by the Disney Channel

Carol, who should have been in Desperate Housewives, but somehow ended up in this show, and has now got shipped with this even more annoying character called Urine.

and Judge Dredd of Tarth.

I must admit my ignorance when it comes to the others:

Can I call the smirking serial killer from a revolutionary PC demographic Emma? Or is there a better name out there?

The other soo smart (TM) character, Sandra Bolton's ex-husband (who's starting to remind me of Mason from Santa Barbara), I guess is Tony? (saw that on another thread I think)

The one handed guy who spent the time between sessions riding the length of the continent alone, braving wolf packs, broken men and riverland and northern lords who all have a strong desire to off him, has also got to have a name from the Sopranos? Or shall we go with the more orthodox Prince Charming from Shrek? 

Someone mentioned a Larry, could you please enlighten me who that is please?

And we still have Dragon Lady who's trying to get Sandra Bolton's approval, and her toyboy.

 

I was coming to talk to you about Larry Lannister, aka Larry The Lunkhead Lannister, but did you mention Mason from Santa Barbara?  THE original Mason, right?  So handsome, so refined, so Lane Davies?  Sandra of famous Sansa Marriage Strike's ex hubby, never hubby is just a Saint, no extra name, just St. Tyrion.  But, damn, thank you for making me think of Mason, it's been years.  He was quite fun, and handsome, and smart, and handsome, and fun, LOL 

Larry The Lunkhead is Cersei's, (sometimes known as Carol or Cheryl but just now by me as Cersei The Boring or The Ice Queen and not The Wild Fire Queen) stupid twin brother, but he occasionally reminds us of a Ser Jaime, sometimes.

There is really no hard and fast rule for the nicknames, we've all given them a few ones over the years.  Littlefinger was Batman then Batfinger for awhile, long may he molder, ya know what I mean? 

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7 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Can someone pls remind me how did Beric end up in Winterfell? And where’s Thoros? :dunce:

Thoros died last season.  Beric was at Eastwatch with Tormund, they saw the NK come with Viserion and ran to escape the falling wall.  And survived, apparently.  Then they went to Last Hearth on their way to Winterfell and saw that the dead had already been there. 

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