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2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I feel like they wasted a lot of time in these first two episodes.

And you can clearly tell that they made pretty HUGE adaptational mistakes judging by how empty the show has become now.

Like instead of spending all of this episode watching people sit around, drink, have sex and wait for the White Walkers to arrive, we could've spent part of the episode seeing a greyscale epidemic caused by JonCon take over King's Landing, Arianne in Sunspear trying to rally the Dornishmen, Melisandre in Volantis learning more about the Ahor Azai story, Cersei and Euron overthrowing fAegon, Euron secretly honing his powers of sorcery, etc.

And you can't even say that they didn't have enough time to adapt other things.

Because Brienne's story was great this episode but it fell flat because her journey in the show has been negligible. In the books, Brienne went through twice as much bull---t as Show Brienne in her quest to keep her vows has and Brienne only has been a POV character for one book and been featured in two others. Show Brienne has been in seven seasons at this point....yet? It's not earned.

I really think they should have combined these two episodes into one. Maybe 70-80 minutes long. But 120~ minutes on this was too much. You're right, they could have spent a lot of time in other areas for a few minutes showing them trying to rally the troops or something. Heck, there could be more going on with the golden company right now as well. There is a lot they could have done with them, compared to they are a generic army to fight for Cersei (as of right now).

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

Why did they make this season only 6 episodes then waste two on hurried Last-Scene-Together horseshit? I'd be fine if they pieced all these re-unions and goodbyes together over a couple episodes assuming 8 more, sure, but knowing there's, what, 5.5 hours left of show to wrap up an entire series is such garbage. I feel like GRRM gave them an index card that says "X and Y die, Z sits on the throne, and oh shit I'm late for another con, good luck dudes!" and they just sat there, baffled on how to make this show anything less than completely insultingly stupid. I need to go watch Spartacus or Xena or some show that knows it's goddamn stupid and enjoys it. 

What the *fuck* is going on with Ghost? Why even bother to shove him onto the side? The actors clearly didn't even film the scene thinking he was there. Just say "Oh yeah he ded" in one of those insultingly shitty post-show interview things.

Man, I came into this season with exceptionally low expectations, and they have not been reached.

Last rant: Emilia Clarke is the weakest actor on the show.

 

Okay, I'll say that I really liked Brienne being knighted. I was Hoo-Rah'ing for her, bigtime. And I agree with previous posters regarding Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's acting. It's like he read the garbage script and said "Well these lines are total shit, but I can work around them just fine when I'm not actually speaking."]

Fuck that episode. Hurry up and kill all my favorite characters so I can get hyped for LotR: The 2nd Age and It'd Better Not Have Any Fucking Hobbits Either, streaming soon on Amazon Prime.

This rant brought to you by scotch.

I have to give you a bow on your ideas for Nik as he reads the terrible scripts and knows he must silently convey something meaningful for us and for Jaime and for Brienne.  His face has just been amazing throughout the show, but season 7 and now, he has upped it a notch.  He KNOWS Jaime and does his best to show us him.  I love your idea of his work around.  :thumbsup:  I thank you, and I thank your scotch as well. 

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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1 minute ago, btfu806 said:

I really think they should have combined these two episodes into one. Maybe 70-80 minutes long. But 120~ minutes on this was too much. You're right, they could have spent a lot of time in other areas for a few minutes showing them trying to rally the troops or something. Heck, there could be more going on with the golden company right now as well. There is a lot they could have done with them, compared to they are a generic army to fight for Cersei (as of right now).

Agreed.

At this point, anyone who continues to think that Dorne, the Ironborn (Aeron, Victarion and a proper Euron included), the Citadel, fAegon/JonCon, R'hllor, Azor Ahai prophecies, Lady Stoneheart and the Faceless Men are unimportant to the story is an idiot.

Sorry not sorry.

Because clearly, if we had half of those things properly incorporated and adapted into the show, we would not have spent most of last season and all of this season so far spinning our wheels and marking time.

It was painfully obvious in this episode that we needed something.

 

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There are some solid ideas here but I think the writers threw away 75% of the world building to solely focus on Winterfell and King's Landing, all the rest doesn't matter anymore. There's something to say about all the reunions but they don't have any consequences attached just soap opera emotions to squeeze out cheers and tears. The NK will just roll over all the people and not have a second thought about those bonds.

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2 minutes ago, Squall said:

There are some solid ideas here but I think the writers threw away 75% of the world building to solely focus on Winterfell and King's Landing, all the rest doesn't matter anymore. There's something to say about all the reunions but they don't have any consequences attached just soap opera emotions to squeeze out cheers and tears. The NK will just roll over all the people and not have a second thought about those bonds.

The reason why they don't have consequences or any real emotional weight to them is because D&D completely refused to adapt A Feast for Crows and A Dance for Dragons properly.

Like I said earlier, Brienne has gone through hell and is going to go through even more hell before she is knighted (i.e. Lady Stoneheart). So that when/if she is knighted, it will feel a lot more emotional because it was EARNED.

Arya and Bran seem to be dead inside and are processing it in different ways. But hasn't been earned at all. Particularly with Bran because  Bran disappeared off our screens for a season only to reappear with new powers when his old ones hadn't even been explained...and when Bran reappeared all he did was:

  1. watch two events that happened in the past and connect the dots
  2. smile softly and have basic ass conversations with the Three-Eyed-Raven
  3. the Hodor moment
  4. Coldhands reveal
  5. disobey the Three Eyed Raven and be touched by the Night King

Like come on. If you're going to have a problem with the magic in the show, that's fine and dandy. But Bran is one of the six most important characters in the entire series; and if you are specifically talking about "the song of ice and fire," Bran is one of the three most important characters.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Ser Hedge said:

Part of the problem might be because decisions about characters who have been retained and given importance vs characters who have been killed off or allowed to drift away offscreen have not been taken based on importance to the plot, but the producers' misguided understanding of what fandom wants. 

 

Exactly! The plot and how each character’s narrative affects the overall plot never seemed important to D&D in their storytelling. Initially, when D&D had material from the books, they sometimes managed to have a coherent narrative (although they butchered the characters they didn’t like such as Stannis). 

Now that they don’t have the books and they decided to cut characters that will likely impact the story in the books, we have totally illogical and nonsensical characters and plots. They have to dumb down characters like LF and Tyrion to make their meandering and senseless storylines work, or make Cersei a formidable opponent despite the fact that she has no claim to the IT and just blew up the Sept with pretty much all the nobility in KL, to have a KL plot. 

In order to sell their ridiculous storylines, D&D needs a captive audience with collective amnesia that can suspend disbelief (which btw they have) while they ignore/ retcon everything that they showed in prior seasons. As you rightly pointed out, now they take their cue from the fanbase and appear to be checking boxes for the sake of appeasing the fans. 

Edited by teej6

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23 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Agreed.

At this point, anyone who continues to think that Dorne, the Ironborn (Aeron, Victarion and a proper Euron included), the Citadel, fAegon/JonCon, R'hllor, Azor Ahai prophecies, Lady Stoneheart and the Faceless Men are unimportant to the story is an idiot.

Sorry not sorry.

Because clearly, if we had half of those things properly incorporated and adapted into the show, we would not have spent most of last season and all of this season so far spinning our wheels and marking time.

It was painfully obvious in this episode that we needed something.

 

I would be pretty happy to have had jon coming out of the crypts and be in an emotional crisis and in order to spare time goes directly to danny and tells her how affected he is by what he found out.. Then she can have her emotional crisis. They talk it out. Then both go to bran and ask more about rhaegar and lyanna and we see some flashbacks...

I don t think this would have been too fancy…. Like have the 2 main characters in the show care about one of the biggest revelations of asoiaf and actualy be afected by it…

 

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So Ned Stark's sword was melted and forged into two swords; now in the possession of Jaime and Brienne. Why hasn't any of the Stark children brought it up and demanded the steel back as a form of restitution? I would think at least Arya would hold a grudge against that (and would appreciate the opportunity to wield a Valyian steel sword). 

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I liked this episode, but it did feel more like an extension/continuation of episode 1 than an episode in it's own right.

Lots of nice and warm moments and reunions happened, but from a narrative standpoint, almost nothing happened in this episode.
And now we only got 4 episodes left instead of 5...



 

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34 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Agreed.

At this point, anyone who continues to think that Dorne, the Ironborn (Aeron, Victarion and a proper Euron included), the Citadel, fAegon/JonCon, R'hllor, Azor Ahai prophecies, Lady Stoneheart and the Faceless Men are unimportant to the story is an idiot.

Sorry not sorry.

Because clearly, if we had half of those things properly incorporated and adapted into the show, we would not have spent most of last season and all of this season so far spinning our wheels and marking time.

It was painfully obvious in this episode that we needed something.

 

Not necessarily.  I'm not sure how cluttering up the show with a half dozen of the author's dead end plots would have improved things?  How would adding Victarian and the Damphair improve the show?  Or adding a huge detailed political plot with Arianne and Aegon?  

Cutting those plots is one of the few things the show did correctly, and they should have cut the whole of the Dorne plot from the show, which would have given more time, if they had the interest or ability, to build better, smarter, more logical plots for the characters who are end game.  

I think that the show has needed more of these types of episodes where people are talking for more than 1 minute, and the characters have a chance to exist, not say badass lines then either exist stage left or close up of a vacant stare into space.  

The showrunners are bad at plotting, this much is obvious, they needed more details from GRRM that he either couldn't or wouldn't give them to make the show coherent once it outpaced Storm of Swords.  

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

So Ned Stark's sword was melted and forged into two swords; now in the possession of Jaime and Brienne. Why hasn't any of the Stark children brought it up and demanded the steel back as a form of restitution? I would think at least Arya would hold a grudge against that (and would appreciate the opportunity to wield a Valyian steel sword). 

This is a good point, but it assumes that they know that Ice was reforged into Oathkeeper and Widows Wail in the first place.
I don't think they do. At the very least, they haven't mentioned it once. 

And Arya made a statement last episode about how Longclaw was too heavy for her, so I think she's perfectly happy with her valyrian steel dagger and some sharp dragonglass.

Sansa is probably perfectly happy with Brienne wielding part of her fathers sword, less so about Jamie however.

Bran probably doesn't care.

Edited by MinscS2

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9 minutes ago, The Monkey said:

So Ned Stark's sword was melted and forged into two swords; now in the possession of Jaime and Brienne. Why hasn't any of the Stark children brought it up and demanded the steel back as a form of restitution? I would think at least Arya would hold a grudge against that (and would appreciate the opportunity to wield a Valyian steel sword). 

Yeah, Ice doesn’t matter to the Stark kids anymore. 

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Posted (edited)

A number of primary & secondary characters feel totally out of place in the show. So is several sub-plots from previous seasons.

I really don't see what Varys, Tyrion, and Davos are doing any more. They just stand in the scenes as glorified props, occasionally delivering odd dialogues. I mean, compare Tyrion from Blackwater to what we have now. In Blackwater is was the mastermind behind the cities defense. His ingenious use of the chain to trap Stannis's ships. Now he is in a very similar scenario and he offers no valuable insights or ideas. Same could be said about Davos. He is not a warrior but the man is way overqualified to be running a soup kitchen.

Jon's death and resurrection played no part in the plot. He still acts the same and everyone around him behaves the same. Nobody is even wondering how he is still alive. Its almost like he went into a comma and came back

One of my other gripes is the Faceless men. So the entire point of the Faceless men plot was just to make Arya a badass assassin? And how did her bad assary affect the plot so far. Apart from killing off all the Freys, which was extremely unrealistic, she does not have much to do with the current plot. A single person, no matter how bad ass she is, is not going to affect the outcome of a battle of this scale.

All the surviving characters ending up at Winterfell was extremely forced. I know this is likely to happen in the Books as well. But I am quite sure George will make it organic and natural.

 

Edited by athmystikal

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Worst reunion scene of the entire first two episodes might be Jorah and Baby Mormont. It starts mid-scene with her being bitchy about being in the crypts. I get that she is the house leader, but she is also like 10 years old. Honestly, what the hell is she going to do out there. Let Jorah lead her army. I am kind of done with her snark and attitude.

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6 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

Omg, I disliked this episode so much. We all know that the dialogues are bad at this point but when you have an episode that consists only of dialogues, it makes it even more obvious how bad they are.

Some of the things I hated:

- basically all dialogues. Some examples: Dany&Sansa. Dany&Jorah. Arya&Gendry. Tormund. And more.

- Arya and Gendry coming literally out of nowhere. Until this moment Arya seemed basically asexual and suddenly she starts checking out Gendry and eventually turns into a big seducer. I'm. freaking. done. with. this. I suppose that Sansa and Theon will make out too based on the look they exchanged.

- "Ser Brienne of Tarth". 'Nuff said.

- there's a big army of undead coming and they are throwing in a party, including drinks, jokes and songs

- Tormund still trying it with Brienne. "I'd knight you 10 times over." Jeez. And the whole monologue about "look how I'm cool, Jaime" was plain embarassing.

- Bran: "I'm the Three-Eyed Crows and there were tons of Three-Eyed Crows before." No one bothers asking what a freaking 3EC is and how the hell does Bran sees the past.

- Jon saying the truth about his parents in a tone that screams "I knew this all along"

At least Ghost is alive, I guess.

I did enjoy the performances for Jaime and Brienne in this scene, but I couldn't help but think with the "Ser" thing if this means that Book Pod always did have it right with his:  Ser, My Lady.  Is that her official title now?  Ser, My Lady? 

I, too, have all kinds of issues with how they do or don't use Bran and his Three Eyed Raven babblings.  I've decided I'm just going to LMAO when he does creepy things like say;  The things we do for love, and you think there will be an after?  Other than that, I don't know what to make of it what they do chose to do and not do with him.  Another thought, why would wiping out a guy who knows the world's human memories be more important than wiping out humanity itself?  That explanation could have used much more work.  I guess I'll just have to see if Bran can troll the NK as well as he does everyone else. 

I agree, it almost seemed as if Jon was presenting the story of his identity as if it was something he'd always known.  I guess we are all supposed to notice how it was Sam and Bran that he said told him and figured it out.  Still, his initial presentation made it seem as if he always knew and made it all the weirder. 

And yeah, Ghost.  Would it have killed anyone to look at him, acknowledge his existence, anything?  Bueller?  Bueller?  It almost screams that Ghost was added as an afterthought. 

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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Just now, SuperMario said:

Worst reunion scene of the entire first two episodes might be Jorah and Baby Mormont. It starts mid-scene with her being bitchy about being in the crypts. I get that she is the house leader, but she is also like 10 years old. Honestly, what the hell is she going to do out there. Let Jorah lead her army. I am kind of done with her snark and attitude.

Couldn't agree more. They are over doing the bad ass child routine.

In a realistic medieval world a child that young would never be allowed to lead the house. He or she will only be a face. But the actual administration will be done by her elders or stewards. This is what happened when Robb went to war. Bran was the lord of Winterfell then. But it was Master Lewin and Cassel who run things. This was how it was on even on the show.

I know that in the books Lyanna Mormont sends that letter to Stannis. But it is pretty much implied that it was written by whoever was in charge and Lyanna simply signed it.

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

Not necessarily.  I'm not sure how cluttering up the show with a half dozen of the author's dead end plots would have improved things?  How would adding Victarian and the Damphair improve the show?  Or adding a huge detailed political plot with Arianne and Aegon?  

Cutting those plots is one of the few things the show did correctly, and they should have cut the whole of the Dorne plot from the show, which would have given more time, if they had the interest or ability, to build better, smarter, more logical plots for the characters who are end game.  

I think that the show has needed more of these types of episodes where people are talking for more than 1 minute, and the characters have a chance to exist, not say badass lines then either exist stage left or close up of a vacant stare into space.  

The showrunners are bad at plotting, this much is obvious, they needed more details from GRRM that he either couldn't or wouldn't give them to make the show coherent once it outpaced Storm of Swords.  

The problem is that the characters seem to not have nothing to do or feel empty. So people usualy think that it is because more plots from the books weren t adapted...

Honestly, I think faegon should have been adapted. He should be a blackfyre from the beguining in order to not make things repetetive and get the support from the faith and the Southern kingdoms because they hate cersei… Cersei has outlived and logic that there might be for her to be a figure with power.

Euron should have gone to danny in order to steal at least 1 of her dragons (preferibly 2) and then die so that the dragons are free to go to jon and faegon for exemple. At least this way we could have a belivable 3 way power strugle for westeros. Because no one would fight a huge army with dragons suporting it… People know what Aegon did...

But most of all I think the problem is that D&D are dumb. They can t create an original story that links events in the show. We saw how awfull winterfel was last season after jon left… there simply wasn t any story there…

And while I agree with you that the show needs more of these eps in order to make the characters more real. I think this ep focus was completly wrong. Arya checking gendry out was simply weird, not having emotional conversations between the starks was weird, not having lyanna disgusted with jorah was weird, jon was super weird (for reasons I have written several times)...

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4 minutes ago, athmystikal said:

Couldn't agree more. They are over doing the bad ass child routine.

In a realistic medieval world a child that young would never be allowed to lead the house. He or she will only be a face. But the actual administration will be done by her elders or stewards. This is what happened when Robb went to war. Bran was the lord of Winterfell then. But it was Master Lewin and Cassel who run things. This was how it was on even on the show.

I know that in the books Lyanna Mormont sends that letter to Stannis. But it is pretty much implied that it was written by whoever was in charge and Lyanna simply signed it.

Yep. And what are the odds she ends up killing a wight or two? I have a feeling that is coming. Just to solidify the bad-ass child shtick even more. And fanboys the world over will be creaming themselves at how "bad ass" she is.

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