Prince of the North Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Wait a minute?! Are the crypts of Winterfell magically warded like the Wall, etc.? Because, if not, couldn't all the entombed Starks simply be raised to attack those sheltering there? And then they're already inside Winterfell! Um, our heroes might wanna get that checked out! dbunting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dornish Mage Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 hour ago, House Cambodia said: Haven't read everything here, but did anyone spot a powerful moment involving Missandre? Before her discussion with Greyworm about leaving Winterfell for home asap, she'd approached 2 local Northern kids who gave her a filthy look and ran off. To me, that look said "We don't want none of you darkies up here". I noticed that too and I am disappointing the showrunners decided to make the North racist. There are three dark skinned characters in King's Landing that I can think off the top of my head - Chataya, Alayaya, Jalabar Xho. I don't recall anyone being racist towards them or having such thoughts. Sure, northeners are more isolated than the people in King's Landing and are more xenophobic and Missandei and Grey Worm look different from them and might get weird looks, but they could have handled this in some other way, for example, having those girls ask about Missandei's background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckyball Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said: Show-Bran probably doesn't need weirwood trees in order to see stuff. He knew all about Littlefingers treachery in Kings Landing and afaik they have no weirwood tree's there. The show does try to make a point about how he knows "everything" that has been and currently is - he's just bad at sorting out the important visions/memories from the irrelevant ones. Brynden Rivers must be pretty embarrassed that he got so distracted that he let this totally irrelevant tree completely envelop his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Buckyball said: Howland Reed was an important part of Bran's flashback in Season 6 episode 3. He also has a living daughter who has been part of the show. Meera just disappeared. Didn't seem to be all that important. Howland was in the flashback because that was the scene in the books. He has no (important) role whatsoever in the show. Quote Daenerys was dubious when John's only supporting evidence were his best friend's research and his brother/cousin's psychic visions. I imagine a living corroborating witness who can make a convincing personal testimony might help sway her, if it ever turns out that she needs swaying. But her doubts are in the control of the writers, too. This is fiction, not reality. Fictional characters behave the like you want them to behave, meaning that if the writers wanted it Dany would buy everything Jon threw at her. Which gets us back to fake tension. 1 minute ago, Dornish Mage said: I noticed that too and I am disappointing the showrunners decided to make the North racist. There are three dark skinned characters in King's Landing that I can think off the top of my head - Chataya, Alayaya, Jalabar Xho. I don't recall anyone being racist towards them or having such thoughts. Sure, northeners are more isolated than the people in King's Landing and are more xenophobic and Missandei and Grey Worm look different from them and might get weird looks, but they could have handled this in some other way, for example, having those girls ask about Missandei's background. Westeros is both racist and xenophobic like hell (check out FaB for more), so that's completely in line with how the characters would behave when confronted by foreigners who are so visibly foreign. However, the idea that they are so isolationist that they would never want to be part of a larger realm makes little sense - nor does Sansa's silly claim that they retook the North all by themselves, etc. considering the North was always under the control of Northmen - Ned, Robb, Roose, Ramsay. Theon and Stannis don't really count since neither ever actually controlled or ruled the North. So this is all a lot of BS and fake tension again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinscS2 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dornish Mage said: I noticed that too and I am disappointing the showrunners decided to make the North racist. There are three dark skinned characters in King's Landing that I can think off the top of my head - Chataya, Alayaya, Jalabar Xho. I don't recall anyone being racist towards them or having such thoughts. Sure, northeners are more isolated than the people in King's Landing and are more xenophobic and Missandei and Grey Worm look different from them and might get weird looks, but they could have handled this in some other way, for example, having those girls ask about Missandei's background. We've been told over and over that the northerners don't like "southerners" (Except for people from the Riverlands and the Vale it seems. They're fine.) I really haven't given thought before about how much lingering xenophobia and racism there is in that statement. Apparently they don't like people from Essos either, not even when they're coming to save your ungrateful ass. 6 minutes ago, Buckyball said: Brynden Rivers must be pretty embarrassed that he got so distracted that he let this totally irrelevant tree completely envelop his body. Weirwood trees apparently makes Bran "see" better, which is why he's always hanging around in the Godswood, and why he always grabbed them whenever he could in earlier seasons. But evidently he can still see when he's chilling in his wheelchair in the Winterfell courtyard. Best not to think to much about it. And don't mix the books with the show either, they're wholly separate entities at this point. Edited April 22, 2019 by MinscS2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, Prince of the North said: Wait a minute?! Are the crypts of Winterfell magically warded like the Wall, etc.? Because, if not, couldn't all the entombed Starks simply be raised to attack those sheltering there? And then they're already inside Winterfell! Um, our heroes might wanna get that checked out! Every tomb is guarded by an iron sword to keep them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, Ice Queen said: Every tomb is guarded by an iron sword to keep them there. Hmm...maybe. But if iron actually can keep wights in check in that way it's strange that it doesn't have much effect on them when, you know, it's actually used to fight them. Also, there were several swords taken from the crypts...but I suppose we can assume they were replaced. And, finally, I wonder if Lyanna's tomb got an iron sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dragon10 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 19 minutes ago, Dornish Mage said: I noticed that too and I am disappointing the showrunners decided to make the North racist. There are three dark skinned characters in King's Landing that I can think off the top of my head - Chataya, Alayaya, Jalabar Xho. I don't recall anyone being racist towards them or having such thoughts. Sure, northeners are more isolated than the people in King's Landing and are more xenophobic and Missandei and Grey Worm look different from them and might get weird looks, but they could have handled this in some other way, for example, having those girls ask about Missandei's background. I thought it was more about them just being southerners (and therefore distrusted and unwanted in the north) than their colour. I think they feel the same way about Danaerys but they aren't going to spit at her. But maybe I'm wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SixFeetUnder Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Not sure if it’s the show or the books, but it was mentioned that some of the swords in the tombs have actually rusted away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Shiznit Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MinscS2 said: We've been told over and over that the northerners don't like "southerners" (Except for people from the Riverlands and the Vale it seems. They're fine.) I really haven't given thought before about how much lingering xenophobia and racism there is in that statement. Apparently they don't like people from Essos either, not even when they're coming to save your ungrateful ass. Over the course of the series the North has been exposed as a community of lowlifes. Between their constant betrayal of each other, sub-humanizing of the freefolk, treatment of bastards, and now open racist bigotry based on a person's skin color. Because of Ned we had a very rose colored picture of the North, but it's clear that the majority of the North is more in line with House Umber/Bolton/Karstark/Glover than they are with Ned. Edited April 22, 2019 by D-Shiznit AndréaV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 59 minutes ago, Prince of the North said: Hmm...maybe. But if iron actually can keep wights in check in that way it's strange that it doesn't have much effect on them when, you know, it's actually used to fight them. Also, there were several swords taken from the crypts...but I suppose we can assume they were replaced. And, finally, I wonder if Lyanna's tomb got an iron sword You're conflating two concepts. I didn't say they could be used to kill wights or WW. I said it was used to keep the spirits of the dead in their places. Not the same thing at all. However, Old Nan tells us waaaay back that the Others hate iron, and an iron axe is the only thing left from their very first attack on the wildlings in the prologue. Additionally, the wights in the ice cells at the Wall are bound with iron chains. The swords keep the Starks from rising as wights or even as leaders ( if you think as I do that there are Others in the Stark family tree). By ancient custom an iron longsword had been laid across the lap of each who had been Lord of Winterfell, to keep the vengeful spirits in their crypts. The oldest had long ago rusted away to nothing, leaving only a few red stains where the metal had rested on stone. Ned wondered if that meant those ghosts were free to roam the castle now. He hoped not.The first Lords of Winterfell had been men hard as the land they ruled. In the centuries before the Dragonlords came over the sea, they had sworn allegiance to no man, styling themselves the Kings in the North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: You're conflating two concepts. I didn't say they could be used to kill wights or WW. I said it was used to keep the spirits of the dead in their places. Not the same thing at all. However, Old Nan tells us waaaay back that the Others hate iron, and an iron axe is the only thing left from their very first attack on the wildlings in the prologue. Additionally, the wights in the ice cells at the Wall are bound with iron chains. The swords keep the Starks from rising as wights or even as leaders ( if you think as I do that there are Others in the Stark family tree). No, I'm not really conflating two concepts...but good points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 42 minutes ago, Ice Queen said: The Others hate iron, and an iron axe is the only thing left from their very first attack on the wildlings in the prologue. Additionally, the wights in the ice cells at the Wall are bound with iron chains. But then -- how were they able to use those iron chains with which to raise Viserian from under the water and ice? Consistency from episode to episode, season to season, thy name is not Game of Thrones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Prince of the North said: Wait a minute?! Are the crypts of Winterfell magically warded like the Wall, etc.? Because, if not, couldn't all the entombed Starks simply be raised to attack those sheltering there? And then they're already inside Winterfell! Um, our heroes might wanna get that checked out! Been expecting this. They sent all of the, less abled or non warriors to the crypts, where the dead people are... all the NK has to do is raise them and they have a lot of people to kill and add to his army, oh and they all were buried with a sword on their statues lap! Tyrion will be there and he made a possibly telling comment, "perhaps after I am dead I will go to KL and rip Cersei apart"... volonquar? however you spell it. Also in the preview for next week, using spoilers since some people don't watch previews. Spoiler Dany and Jon are on the wall and she says "the dead are already here". This could be her realizing that the people in the crypts are in danger. This would go together with the season preview of Arya running terrified through Winterfell. Her mom coming to kill her, or her headless dad? Would be twisted and scary enough to do that to Arya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Anna Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Buckyball said: I think in book canon his powers wouldn't give him access to that moment because there weren't any nearby weirwood trees. Hard to say in the show, though. If he is the world's memory then I guess he has access to every moment everywhere. I see people bringing this up sometimes but I think in the books there's a line by Bloodraven where he says that Bran will learn to ''see beyond the trees'' or some such. Here: "Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past. Men live their lives trapped in an eternal present, between the mists of memory and the sea of shadow that is all we know of the days to come. Certain moths live their whole lives in a day, yet to them that little span of time must seem as long as years and decades do to us. An oak may live three hundred years, a redwood tree three thousand. A weirwood will live forever if left undisturbed. To them seasons pass in the flutter of a moth's wing, and past, present, and future are one. Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood. The singers carved eyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use … but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves." "When?" Bran wanted to know. - Bran III, ADWD This may be up for interpretation, and this may not be right thread, but I wonder what it actually means? From what comes before it sounds like Bran will learn to use other ''eyes'' besides the weirwoods. AndréaV and dbunting 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckyball Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 That's very interesting. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 I have to say I loved the episode more than any for a while. I think the acting in this episode was as good as it has ever been. I actually felt tension, pride, fear etc. Show started off strong with Jaimes trial. Brienne saved his ass and Sansa stepped up to lead as well. It was a little out of character for Dany since this is the man who killed her father, but, maybe is shows growth? Arya - Gendry, been seeing this since S2. They seemed to have a bond then, more of teasing of course. Then last week I thought it was obvious they were going to be together. This episode they reminded us that she asked him to come to Winterfell, maybe not knowing why she wanted him there but she knew she did. It was nice to see a woman on this show get to choose for herself what man she wanted and when, it's not very often that happens so I am glad it was her. I think this was Sansas' best episode ever, definitely the actresses best. For the first time I actually believed she was a leader and making intelligent decisions. Then her scene with Theon was pretty touching, IIRC first time together since he helped her escape? Sam-Edd-Jon on the wall was great, and now our watch begins. Would have been better if Ghost was between Sam and Jon getting some attention, or if maybe we saw Jon introduce Ghost to Dany but whatever. Nice to see Brienne get knighted. It's something she said means nothing to her but we all knew meant the world to her. It shows her the respect she has earned. We finally learned what the NK wants to do. Basically end humanity and erase it from the world and that makes sense based on how he was created and why. I had no problem w the Jon and Dany scene. He was down there maybe trying to think about what could have been, or what she was like. Dany once she realizes who he is in front of of course has to talk about it. She herself is trying to understand the two versions she has heard of her brother. Kind and gentle, kidnapping rapist. Jon doesn't want to let her continue to believe he was a rapist and decides this is the time, which in true Jon fashion is the wrong time, but he is consistent! Side note, when Jon saw the nightswatch people arrive and Tormund came out of no where, I thought it was Ghost at first, I was like hell yeah! Nope. King Jon Snow Stark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 hours ago, MinscS2 said: We've been told over and over that the northerners don't like "southerners" (Except for people from the Riverlands and the Vale it seems. They're fine.) To be fair, the Riverlands and the Vale fought to protect the Starks in Robert's Rebellion, so likely the northerners have a high opinion of houses from those regions. Further, Jon Arryn was like a second father to Ned and that seems like reasonably common knowledge, and Ned was married to a Tully and all the Starks still alive sans Jon have Tully blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckyball Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 Am I wrong in thinking that Jon's claim to the iron throne has nothing to do with being male? Any surviving offspring of Rhaegar (or Viserys), male or female, would have a stronger claim to the throne than Daenerys. I thought her "last male heir" line was a little odd. AndréaV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, D-Shiznit said: Over the course of the series the North has been exposed as a community of lowlifes. Between their constant betrayal of each other, sub-humanizing of the freefolk, treatment of bastards, and now open racist bigotry based on a person's skin color. Read what Drogo The Bozo has to say about the Lhazareen again, forgetting the fact of what he did to them. Edited April 23, 2019 by OldGimletEye teej6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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