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On 4/23/2019 at 1:01 AM, Frances Bean Corbray said:

Gendry got laid.  He's dead.

Brienne got knighted.  She's dead.

Varys and Royce are glorified extras.  They're dead.

Ghost is too expensive to film and you can make a strong narrative/character argument that Jon doesn't need/shouldn't have him anymore.  He's dead.

Jorah has finally made peace with the friendzone and had a family reunion with little Lady Mormont.  He's dead.

Edd finally got to act like Edd one last time.  He's dead.

Beric is just his flaming sword prop and doesn't fit in anywhere anymore.  He's dead.

Pod is comedic relief in a show that's run out of comedy time.  DEAD.

Davos?  Old, not a fighter, not necessary going forward.  He's dead.

Soup Girl that looks like Shireen?  gonna be the wight that kills Davos.  Dead.

Alys Karstark?  Too many spitfire girls on the show as it is and you don't even get lines.  Dead.

Grey Worm and Missandei?  That Naath plan was the most "Two Days Away From Retirement" speech I ever heard.  Dead and Dead.

Next week should be a lot of fun if you like crying. 

[and I continue to have a funny feeling Theon is going to live.]

All those Ironborn who accompanied Theon might as well have red shirts on. Dead.

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After re-watching this scene, something occurred to me:
 

Emilia's acting is absolutely on point here, you can read so much from Daenerys expression after Jon reveals his parentage.

But at 3:09 into the video, when the horn blows, look at her expression when she looks back at Jon/Aegon when he's looking away.
Despite all her talk about succession, there's not a hint of anger in her eyes, she just looks perplexed and sad, possibly even a little bit elated. 

The emphasize on male heir also is a bit strange to me.
Why emphasize "male" in that manner? Jon could be a woman and still be ahead of her in the line of succession. 

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9 hours ago, LadyBlackwater said:

That first kiss when she went for it, it seemed so awkward lol. I read an interview and she said when she sat down for the table reading and saw that scene, she thought it was a joke

Good acting then right! That's Arya's first kiss ever, and it comes after she tells him she is having sex with him, pretty normal awkward first encounter.

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13 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Why does it feel like I'm the only one who didn't have a problem with Arya having sex?

I wasn't bothered at all. This is a fictional universe where boys turn into full-grown men at age 16 or earlier. Girls are married off before menarche and impregnated as soon as they flower. Thus, not problematic - and hey, at least it was her idea, not something forced on her.

 

13 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I hope it will lead to something, but with only 4 episodes left...who knows.

By the old gods and the new, I hope it will, too! :D

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That was a big redeeming moment for Brienne because the last time she was with a group of boys she was being a big joke, which is why she was hesitant being called over to kneel. And now she is being honored and praised. She got what she wanted. Respect. 

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7 hours ago, dbunting said:

Good acting then right! That's Arya's first kiss ever, and it comes after she tells him she is having sex with him, pretty normal awkward first encounter.

It was! It’s a great moment for Arya. I love seeing how self assured she is. In the books, a lot of her thought process is “if I find a family member, will they still love me when they find out all the things I have done(people I’ve killed)” I think it’s also why her reunion with Jon snow hit me so hard lol

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52 minutes ago, D2procon said:

That was a big redeeming moment for Brienne because the last time she was with a group of boys she was being a big joke, which is why she was hesitant being called over to kneel. And now she is being honored and praised. She got what she wanted. Respect. 

I loved this moment for brienne. I’ve never seen her smile like that. Beautiful.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Gendelsdottir said:

I wasn't bothered at all. This is a fictional universe where boys turn into full-grown men at age 16 or earlier. Girls are married off before menarche and impregnated as soon as they flower. Thus, not problematic - and hey, at least it was her idea, not something forced on her.

 

By the old gods and the new, I hope it will, too! :D

It’s interesting as a cultural matter to ask why one would be bothered by her having sex even if it was contextually inappropriate, given all the things Arya has done as an underage girl. We will watch a young girl kill people, cut off their faces, use them to kill more people, then feed those people to someone else and kill them, but having nice consensual sex is a bridge too far?

”We train young men to drop fire on people but their commanders won’t allow them to write fuck on their airplanes because it’s obscene.”

Edited by Forlong the Fat

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

It’s interesting as a cultural matter to ask why one would be bothered by her having sex even if it was contextually inappropriate, given all the things Arya has done as an underage girl. We will watch a young girl kill people, cut off their faces, use them to kill more people, then feed those people to someone else and kill them, but having nice consensual sex is a bridge too far?

”We train young men to drop fire on people but their commanders won’t allow them to write fuck on their airplanes because it’s obscene.”

I've had this discussion elsewhere and don't really want to rehash the whole thing again, but for me a lot of what rubbed me the wrong way was that killing is very in character for Arya.  It isn't that sex is bad or that sex is a bridge too far but killing isn't, AT ALL, it's that I didn't expect that to be Arya's #1 priority and felt like it was missed, precious screen minutes that I would have liked to have seen spent another way.  I felt like I wasn't prepared adequately (1.5 episodes of crappy flirting wasn't enough for me I guess ha ha) for her to suddenly want to experience sex so much that that is the one thing she most wants to do on her potentially last night alive.  There were things I thought she would care more about - seeking out Jon or Sansa, for example, and I was kind of disappointed when those conversations didn't happen, and may never happen.  I've just been waiting for reunited Starks for so long and was a little disappointed by how little all three of them have interacted.  We may not get another chance to see that happen. 

Edited by Red Dragon10

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I've had this discussion elsewhere and don't really want to rehash the whole thing again, but for me a lot of what rubbed me the wrong way was that killing is very in character for Arya.  It isn't that sex is bad or that sex is a bridge too far but killing isn't, AT ALL, it's that I didn't expect that to be Arya's #1 priority and felt like it was missed, precious screen minutes that I would have liked to have seen spent another way.  I felt like I wasn't prepared adequately (1.5 episodes of crappy flirting wasn't enough for me I guess ha ha) for her to suddenly want to experience sex so much that that is the one thing she most wants to do on her potentially last night alive.  There were things I thought she would care more about - seeking out Jon or Sansa, for example, and I was kind of disappointed when those conversations didn't happen, and may never happen.  I've just been waiting for reunited Starks for so long and was a little disappointed by how little all three of them have interacted.  We may not get another chance to see that happen. 

Have you ever noticed that when someone says they don't want to rehash something they inevitably rehash it?

I'm not going to rehash why this makes no sense, but . . .

Edited by Forlong the Fat

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1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Have you ever noticed that when someone says they don't want to rehash something they inevitably rehash it?

I'm not going to rehash why this makes no sense, but . . .

Rehashing it would be going back and forth.  I'm stating that there are many reasons why people dislike the Gendry/Arya scene.  It's not necessarily about being totally OK with violence and squeamish about sex. 

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Thinking that Arya's sex scene wasn't particularly well done, or well acted, or well conceived or well written doesn't mean that you are some kind of prude, or that you don't mind killing but don't like sex.  All it means is that the person thinks the scene wasn't particularly good, which is a shame.

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10 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Rehashing it would be going back and forth.  I'm stating that there are many reasons why people dislike the Gendry/Arya scene.  It's not necessarily about being totally OK with violence and squeamish about sex. 

Well you just entered into a discussion of a different objection many people had to the scene to restate yours. 

Apparently you think it isn't rehashing so long as you have the last word. That's not what the word means, but I guess you're entitled to any feelings you want on what words mean, just as you are entitled to any feelings you want to have about whether it's in character for young men and women to have sex. 

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24 minutes ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Well you just entered into a discussion of a different objection many people had to the scene to restate yours. 

Apparently you think it isn't rehashing so long as you have the last word. That's not what the word means, but I guess you're entitled to any feelings you want on what words mean, just as you are entitled to any feelings you want to have about whether it's in character for young men and women to have sex. 

"Rehash" - consider or discuss (something) at length after it has happened.  One paragraph is hardly "at length".  :rolleyes:

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20 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

After re-watching this scene, something occurred to me:
 

Emilia's acting is absolutely on point here, you can read so much from Daenerys expression after Jon reveals his parentage.

But at 3:09 into the video, when the horn blows, look at her expression when she looks back at Jon/Aegon when he's looking away.
Despite all her talk about succession, there's not a hint of anger in her eyes, she just looks perplexed and sad, possibly even a little bit elated. 

The emphasize on male heir also is a bit strange to me.
Why emphasize "male" in that manner? Jon could be a woman and still be ahead of her in the line of succession. 

Daenerys is not angry at all in this scene. So these Mad Queen theories based on scenes like this are bogus to me. As a matter of fact, Daenerys' reaction is more credible than Jon's reaction.

5 hours ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I've had this discussion elsewhere and don't really want to rehash the whole thing again, but for me a lot of what rubbed me the wrong way was that killing is very in character for Arya.  It isn't that sex is bad or that sex is a bridge too far but killing isn't, AT ALL, it's that I didn't expect that to be Arya's #1 priority and felt like it was missed, precious screen minutes that I would have liked to have seen spent another way.  I felt like I wasn't prepared adequately (1.5 episodes of crappy flirting wasn't enough for me I guess ha ha) for her to suddenly want to experience sex so much that that is the one thing she most wants to do on her potentially last night alive.  There were things I thought she would care more about - seeking out Jon or Sansa, for example, and I was kind of disappointed when those conversations didn't happen, and may never happen.  I've just been waiting for reunited Starks for so long and was a little disappointed by how little all three of them have interacted.  We may not get another chance to see that happen. 

I understand (parts of) the opposite end of the argument.

We are supposed to watch the kids of the show (particularly Bran, Arya and Sansa but Jon, Samwell, Daenerys, Robb and Rickon too) grow up. While we have watched them grow up physically, the only one who we have watched grow up completely and become an actual adult is Sansa. And we all know how that wentprocess went.

Like Bran in the books. He has a massive crush on Meera that - now that he is getting older - is becoming more and more sexual. As a matter of fact, where we left off with Bran, he was sorely tempted to use Hodor's body and approach and hold Meera.

 

Arya has been terribly one-note since season 4. All she has ever wanted was killing. I get it

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2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Arya has been terribly one-note since season 4. All she has ever wanted was killing. I get it

I think that Arya was actually pretty well done. At the end of S4 she has lost basically everything and everyone, all dead and she is what, 14 or so at that time. She is suffering PTSD and puts up a wall to hide behind it, she focuses on revenge. She thinks that the FM are more righteous, for lack of a better word, than they are. Turns out they aren't any better than the Brotherhood. She thinks they only kill people who are bad and once she starts to realize they will kill anyone as long as they get paid, the FM lose their charm so to speak. Once again she feels lost and decides to leave because she knows she can't accept this. She gets to a literal cross road in her life, head south and get Cersei, or head north and maybe find Jon. She chooses family over revenge and ends up finding Sansa alive and some of her wall comes down, but she realizes that Sansa is somewhat leery or undercutting Jon so she keeps some of her defenses up. Finally she sees Jon again and even in that scene she at first keeps up her wall, then drops it and gives the big hug.  So she is now getting some of her humanity back that she has been hiding away and meeting Gendry again raises some feelings she has always buried or hadn't really felt yet. The end of the world is coming and hey I always liked and trusted you, lets do this!

Anyway that's a lot of words to say that this season has been more about Arya coming back to her humanity.

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This past week I've rewatched ep 2 many times and I did so again last night. When the credits rolled at the end I realised 2 things. 
There was a kind of purity about this episode. These people knew that many of them would face death very soon, so on their last night of potentially being alive, they revealed their thoughts, they showed their love and they spoke unspoken words.
I also realised I will never watch this heartfelt episode again with the same innocence. It can never be the same, the purity will be gone ...... because many of these people will soon be dead.

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On 4/24/2019 at 6:15 PM, Roshufin said:

 

Anybody else feels this way? Anyone else felt like the fox watching the geese with those conversasion feints between Jorah and Lady Mormont, Jon and Arya, Danny and Jon, Jaime and Bran...?

Yes. yes and YES. 

It's like watching a summary, not a show. Only  loose scenes here and there, without depth, without actual meaning. The characters have been butchered till only a shell of them is left; the plot is full of holes and inconsistency,  the dialogs are  bad, and all important conversations are interrupted. 
The music is great, and in general the visuals are very good too, but I would never watch a show just for its music and visuals, I'm not interested in big battles, but in the people who fight them. 
Jon has discovered a life changing information, and we don't have any idea of how he feels, what he thinks!
I am one of the completely disillusioned spectators, who only continues to watch the show because I invested in what the characters used to be,  I want a conclusion, and I do not think JRRM will ever give us one.
I don't blame only the showrunners, I blame HBO too, this is their show, they should have had some quality control in the creative department, and hire more and better writters. 

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When Tyrion started asking for a song, I suddenly remembered my very favorite asoiaf song and I was so hoping tormund would start singing The Last of the Giants. I was certain that was actually the plan XD

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