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8 hours ago, Ser Sinister said:

Wasn't there a scene in one of the trailers for this season showing Jaime's golden hand laying in the snow in the Winterfell keep? That is probably your standard trailer red herring though, because I still think we're getting some sort of Lannister family reunion.

Yes there was, but the same trailer implied basically everyone would be dead in Winterfell: there were references to Dany, Jon, Bran, Tyrion, etc

Don't think this will happen though. It was just to show "death" coming to Winterfell

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How do you defeat an army of the undead that has no plan or strategy, that are just going to swarm your positions? The only tactic you could possibly have is retreat. Run away not stand your ground.

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6 hours ago, Remember said:

I'd LOVE something like this, but honestly I don't think the show has anything clever up it's sleeve. It pains me to say this since I was originally a book purist, but then decided years ago to ride with the show knowing GRRM would never compete the series. And it was good times for a bit,  peaking with Hardhome. But man, the show has fallen off and every time I see complex "theories" online they are always proven wrong (other than the zombie dragon taking down the wall).

 

The writing hasn't set up any of the cool Night ('s) King theories that sprouted from the books. He just "wants an endless night" now, according to Bran. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I'm scared this will just be a straight battle against the dead, and then an annoying human power struggle (Jon/Danny/Sansa/Cersei) for the iron throne after that. No Nissa Nissa theories, no complexity to the NK, etc.

I couldn't agree more. I try to remind myself not to expect something incredible from the story (just enjoy the visual stuff), but it is really hard to watch such a complex world portrayed as simple and plain as "an endless night". If there was a huge twist in our fierce NK's motivation (given the number of episodes left) they could have played it out in this episode imo.  

Also, something is "wrong" with Dany's character this season. I just can't find the logic in her actions or words. The conversation she had with Sansa was so unreal. She is not authentic at all. I read some of the opinions here on the forum, but I really don't get it. I feel like there is no end to the drama we get, but come on, it is the final season, I need closure.

The song was a really nice touch though at the end. I just hope the show won't end like Lost. It will be nothing sweet in the promised bitter sweet ending if they don't give us some explanations.

Am I the only one scared of a "Lost-like ending"?

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I enjoyed Brienne going from ugly duckling, couldn’t get a man to look at her without laughing, to having two of the greatest warriors in Westeros fighting for her affection. Combine that with her “knighting” and it’s nearly certain she will die in the next episode . . . Also, Grey Worm’s conversation with Missandei convinced me of his impending death. I could go on, but it’s probably already been said.

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Was reading elsewhere some speculation that the 'battle of Winterfell' is actually a false front and the Night King left only a small portion of his army to fight it while the main body is on its way to Kings Landing in a surprise attack... Gotta say would love that twist as it would turn the show completely on its head but I doubt there is anything to it as it seems we are headed in a straight linear path from battle with the dead to battle between the remaining forces of the living...

Although we see Dany's vision of the throne room destroyed when she arrives which gives some hope of a major twist, but we haven't seen one of those since the show passed the books and GRRM is no longer directly writing the story...

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15 minutes ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

Was reading elsewhere some speculation that the 'battle of Winterfell' is actually a false front and the Night King left only a small portion of his army to fight it while the main body is on its way to Kings Landing in a surprise attack... Gotta say would love that twist as it would turn the show completely on its head but I doubt there is anything to it as it seems we are headed in a straight linear path from battle with the dead to battle between the remaining forces of the living...

Although we see Dany's vision of the throne room destroyed when she arrives which gives some hope of a major twist, but we haven't seen one of those since the show passed the books and GRRM is no longer directly writing the story...

The fact that everything seems so paint by numbers good versus evil right now makes me think there's some sort of twist coming.  

Plus, the marketing materials this season showed the Night King with the seven pointed star in his eye.

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23 minutes ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

Was reading elsewhere some speculation that the 'battle of Winterfell' is actually a false front and the Night King left only a small portion of his army to fight it while the main body is on its way to Kings Landing in a surprise attack... Gotta say would love that twist as it would turn the show completely on its head but I doubt there is anything to it as it seems we are headed in a straight linear path from battle with the dead to battle between the remaining forces of the living...

Although we see Dany's vision of the throne room destroyed when she arrives which gives some hope of a major twist, but we haven't seen one of those since the show passed the books and GRRM is no longer directly writing the story...

Hope this true otherwise will be pretty boring.

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28 minutes ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

Was reading elsewhere some speculation that the 'battle of Winterfell' is actually a false front and the Night King left only a small portion of his army to fight it while the main body is on its way to Kings Landing in a surprise attack... Gotta say would love that twist as it would turn the show completely on its head but I doubt there is anything to it as it seems we are headed in a straight linear path from battle with the dead to battle between the remaining forces of the living...

Although we see Dany's vision of the throne room destroyed when she arrives which gives some hope of a major twist, but we haven't seen one of those since the show passed the books and GRRM is no longer directly writing the story...

I agree with the other replies to this, as I'm also hoping for some sort of twist. Bran's reveal last night carried no weight whatsoever. It reduced the NK and his horde to your stock zombie army. They want to kill us, because that's what they do. I find it hard to believe (or at least I hope it's not going down like this) that GRRM would tell the showrunners about this huge threat to the kingdom, but not explain their motivation beyond "they don't like the living". I guess we'll find out in the coming weeks...

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Valar morghulis.... all men must die... what if we are all looking for clues, but it’s already spelled out for us. Kingslayer-he kills the knight king. And it’s been there the whole time. What if Valar morghulis is supposed to be taken literally, all men must die. Literal all “men” must die. We already have the women taking over. So Instead of men ruling, we have women ruling. In the end all the men die.... not the boys. 

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58 minutes ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

Was reading elsewhere some speculation that the 'battle of Winterfell' is actually a false front and the Night King left only a small portion of his army to fight it while the main body is on its way to Kings Landing in a surprise attack... Gotta say would love that twist as it would turn the show completely on its head but I doubt there is anything to it as it seems we are headed in a straight linear path from battle with the dead to battle between the remaining forces of the living...

Although we see Dany's vision of the throne room destroyed when she arrives which gives some hope of a major twist, but we haven't seen one of those since the show passed the books and GRRM is no longer directly writing the story...

Love this! Just like what Robb Stark did in season 1

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I like the idea that the night king needs to kill Bran in order to kill himself. If he was a green seer rather than just some first man the COTF captured. To close his loop he has to kill the last green seer - 3 eyed raven.

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3 hours ago, T and A said:

You should probably start watching GOT after Season 1 episode 9. Quite a few things happend since then. You may have missed some episodes. You know, instead of just making ridicoulous statements everytime you post something just for the sake of growing atention. Or you could just stop watching something you don't enjoy? You can dislike something, without the need to tell strangers on the internet about it. 

It is understandable to not like some of the episodes. I didn't enjoy this one. But if you dislike every episode, and still continue to watch, just so you can rant on the internet, to strangers, this is just stupid.

Have I asked for your opinion on my viewing habits? And are you sure you are on the right board? This is a discussion forum for the TV show and we are exchanging opinions here. I see no reason to praise something that's shitty nor do I see to justify my opinions or tastes to you. And what's wrong with enjoying to rant about something as shitty as this? Isn't that fun, too? I'm getting more satisfaction from this than I ever got from taking the thing seriously. It is also a stretch that expressing the kind of opinion I did has to mean I did not enjoy watching it. I no longer take it seriously, but it is pretty good unintentional comedy and travesty.

And why don't you just like the show quietly at home without feeling the need to bore strangers on the internet with your own opinions? Not that I'm really interested in that, but since you presumed to ask me I similarly silly question I think it is warranted that I return the favor... This is not some board were only positive opinions are supposed or allowed to be exchanged

But the point stands: Dany was never about the Iron Throne in the show. She has the same background as in the books - she is forced into a role and then inherits her brother's burden after his death. It is simply factually wrong for the show character that she was about the Iron Throne her entire life. In fact, most of her life she was about other things - she was pleasing her brother, pleasing Drogo, freeing slaves, conquering and ruling slaver cities in her own right, subduing Dothraki, etc. It shouldn't be that hard to let this all go. If the character was supposed to be all about the Iron Throne they should have killed Dany in season 1 and have made Viserys the hero of the story.

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The thing I'm most pleased about is Arya giving her maidenhood to Gendry. I'll be disappointed if we don't see something between Sansa and Sandor. It's not necessary to see any romance between those two, but just some little conversation after they parted back in season 2.

It's still uncertain will Brienne give her maidenhood to Jaime or Tormund, but the most interesting thing about Jaime knighting her and naming her Knight of the Seven Kingdoms is a reference to Ser Duncan the Tall. This might be a confirmation that Brienne is his descendant.

After that scene where Jorah advises Lyanna Mormont not to fight in the battle, I can see that she's most likely to perish the upcoming battle.

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49 minutes ago, the tower of albion said:

I like the idea that the night king needs to kill Bran in order to kill himself. If he was a green seer rather than just some first man the COTF captured. To close his loop he has to kill the last green seer - 3 eyed raven.

To me that appears just like some sort of stupid plot device to have the Lich King expose himself. After all, there is no internal motivation whatsoever as to why this guy has to kill Bran himself or particularly prioritize to kill him personally, is there? The boy is a cripple. He cannot go anywhere. So why would any sane person prioritize killing him before the other resistance has been taken care of? He cannot run away, he cannot even feed himself. Also, if Bran carries the memory of the entire world wouldn't it be more fitting to kill him last? That's what I'd do. Also - suddenly Bran knows a lot of stuff again, but when was this actually introduced? All we saw him knowing was stuff about the origin of the creatures and Lyanna/Rhaegar stuff. He didn't talk about any of the stuff he should have known - like Littlefinger's monstrous deeds in the past, etc. - when the man was trying to goad his sisters into killing each other.

Also, if Bran were truly this important to the enemy for some irrational reason on his part - why don't they put Bran on a dragon and fly him down south to force the Lich King to chase after him exposing himself and his zombie dragon some more?

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1 minute ago, Lord Varys said:

Have I asked for your opinion on my viewing habits? And are you sure you are on the right board? This is a discussion forum for the TV show and we are exchanging opinions here. I see no reason to praise something that's shitty nor do I see to justify my opinions or tastes to you. And what's wrong with enjoying to rant about something as shitty as this? Isn't that fun, too? I'm getting more satisfaction from this than I ever got from taking the thing seriously. It is also a stretch that expressing the kind of opinion I did has to mean I did not enjoy watching it. I no longer take it seriously, but it is pretty good unintentional comedy and travesty.

And why don't you just like the show quietly at home without feeling the need to bore strangers on the internet with your own opinions? Not that I'm really interested in that, but since you presumed to ask me I similarly silly question I think it is warranted that I return the favor... This is not some board were only positive opinions are supposed or allowed to be exchanged

 

I am definitively on the wrong board here, I'll give you that. And no, the purpose is not to participate on a forum solely to rant. There are threads for that here too, as I am sure you know. Some of us would like to discuss the show, without the exact same posts all the time. You may enjoy to rant, but you and your kind kill every possible dicussion, may it be positive or negative discussions, by participating on every discussion, with the same posts. It distracts from e serious discussion every time. There are a lot of people like me, who like to discuss what we like about it, and what we don't like, where the show is headed, what the scenes mean and so on. That is why we are here. 

 

10 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

And why don't you just like the show quietly at home without feeling the need to bore strangers on the internet with your own opinions? Not that I'm really interested in that, but since you presumed to ask me I similarly silly question I think it is warranted that I return the favor... 

This question shows exactly your arrogant view, and I wont bother to even begin to explain what the difference is and why this is just a wrong comparisson. Not that I am interested in any of your opinions. 

 

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1 hour ago, the tower of albion said:

I like the idea that the night king needs to kill Bran in order to kill himself. If he was a green seer rather than just some first man the COTF captured. To close his loop he has to kill the last green seer - 3 eyed raven.

Yeah I'm a fan of the time loop theory. I'm not sure it makes any sense, but the concept sounds great.

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Posted (edited)

Now ... the following is surely ridiculous?

Considering how many castrati are at Winterfell: Varys, Theon, Bran, dead from the waist down, a whole Unsullied army; and in so many times and locations a gendered male without genitals, metaphorically is considered no man at all (he's got no balls! he ain't a real man!).  And if a man isn't a man, he is dead. The WWs were created by the CotF to rid Westros of 'men.' So maybe, these not-men are immune to the WWs?  But then, women would also be immune, and we have seen this isn't so.  So. see above -- 'ridiculous.'

However, less ridiculous, my personal sense is that Jon in many ways is also 'dead,' and thus his resurrection should have some role in how things play out with the NK.  'Should,' is, of course, not 'will have some role,' because this is, after all, television with total ambition for Big Spectacle (now we get to do Star Wars on the screen, so yay!, it worked), so there is very little space to provide narrative coherence and cohesion.

All that contributes to this viewer finding this episode the closest to satisfactory and enjoyable of any I've see in all the seasons so far.  Less stabbing, more talking, and talking with warmth and affection grown out of years of these people knowing each other, as among groups in my neighborhood who are now in the older years and grew up together -- even if there wasn't enough talking by certain characters with each other, for the sake of the false tension, etc.

The circle in Winterfell's great hall was really wonderful -- and it wouldn't be comprehensible if one hadn't seen all that had come before.

ETA: I don't think that was the actor's body in the Arya and Gendry sex-before-we-die scene, but a body double.

Edited by Zorral

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