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31 minutes ago, T and A said:

I am definitively on the wrong board here, I'll give you that. And no, the purpose is not to participate on a forum solely to rant. There are threads for that here too, as I am sure you know. Some of us would like to discuss the show, without the exact same posts all the time. You may enjoy to rant, but you and your kind kill every possible dicussion, may it be positive or negative discussions, by participating on every discussion, with the same posts. It distracts from e serious discussion every time. There are a lot of people like me, who like to discuss what we like about it, and what we don't like, where the show is headed, what the scenes mean and so on. That is why we are here. 

This question shows exactly your arrogant view, and I wont bother to even begin to explain what the difference is and why this is just a wrong comparisson. Not that I am interested in any of your opinions. 

Well, you could also have addressed the point. I was not just ranting, I was also addressing a significant point in the nonsensical characterization of a particular character within the TV continuity. Dany is characterized as a girl who is forced into her role as 'last scion of a royal line supposed to avenge her family and take back what's theirs' against her own will. Originally she has no internal motivation or desire for the Iron Throne nor is that her main priority in light of the story she has for most of the show.

And then there is the fact that she never even sits on the bloody chair. If she had become a crowned and anointed queen last season, say, then her giving up that would have another quality because she would have made a solemn promise to gods and men, etc. to be a queen and she would have been acknowledged as such by a majority of the people, finally gaining all the trappings of power, etc.

But in the show is just a pretender with two dragons and a big army. She isn't a proper queen in any real sense of the world. Just a war lord. And if you are in such a position it is much more easier to give up what you never actually had. Which leads again the fake tension.

Only in a silly world of egocentric actors would things like 'Does she love you enough to give up her throne for you' actually pose a conundrum - because real people would actually resolve such 'a conflict' by marriage and joint rule. In fact, even if those morons didn't love each other a political and loveless marriage would also be the obvious reason to resolve such conflicting claims. Because there is no way that a sane person would want to fight this out while or shortly after they were fighting against a zombie army.

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I just want everybody to die and Drogon and Rhaegal rule Westeros Jurassic Park style. I mean I can’t think of a scenario that could salvage the main characters with these personalities they have portrayed lately.

Okay, maybe we can keep Sam and Gilly and Little Sam and Ghost too and a handful a peasants and they can restart humanity. And some poor sods from the Dothraki and the Unsullied armies who so didn’t sign up for this shit. And if I really stretch it, we can keep Edd and Alys Karstark or something. I don’t see the point of anybody else’s survival. 

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3 hours ago, Coffeewiththegods said:

Isn’t that how it works in the books?

Yes, knights can knight others. Jaime was knighted by Arthur Dayne, and book Beric knighted book Gendry. You don't need a king or queen to knight anyone.

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This was a lovely and emotionally draining episode with so many beautiful moments. I loved the Night's Watch together again, Brienne being knighted, Jaime and Tyrion's reunion, Davos and the little girl, and everything with Tormund. I also found Sansa and Theon meeting again to be surprisingly moving. The episode (in conjunction with the last, but this was stronger) does a beautiful job of making us be deeply invested in these characters and their journeys and histories... before, without a doubt, many of them die next episode. I can only imagine that in the future, watching episodes 2-3 of this season together will be pretty much a necessity. I am so hyped but scared for next week in the best possible way. I'll have to see how it stands on rewatch, but this episode is right now among the best of the show for me.

 

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4 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

How do you defeat an army of the undead that has no plan or strategy, that are just going to swarm your positions? The only tactic you could possibly have is retreat. Run away not stand your ground.

And they retreat forever? Until Dorme? Flee to Essos? Retreating ain't an option

I agree meeting the dead in open battle is not ideal, but the have lots os dragon glass now...

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3 hours ago, briantw said:

  

Plus, the marketing materials this season showed the Night King with the seven pointed star in his eye.

Really? I did not see it! Could you share a link or image? :)

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Posted (edited)

This episode was excellent, and it really did feel like a last hurrah for some of the characters. 
An episode of quiet contemplation, more reunions, reflection and friendly banter, before the shit hits the fan.

As for Jon and Daenerys, to quote a very good movie-villain: "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it."

I expected Jon to react with a :o when he heard about his lineage, and he did.
I expected Jon to silently pull away (momentarily) from Daenerys after hearing this, and he did.
I expected Daenerys to initially react with a :o when she heard about Jons lineage and she did.

I did not expect Jon to break the news at the worst possible moment however, but it's a classic Jon-move.

Now we just need them both to survive the next episode, have a huge argument, only for Daenerys to notice that she's pregnant. 

Targ-wedding in episode 5?



 

Edited by MinscS2

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57 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Yes, knights can knight others. Jaime was knighted by Arthur Dayne, and book Beric knighted book Gendry. You don't need a king or queen to knight anyone.

If I remember correctly book Beric knighted everyone who joined the BwB right?

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4 hours ago, Sonoftheharpie said:

Was reading elsewhere some speculation that the 'battle of Winterfell' is actually a false front and the Night King left only a small portion of his army to fight it while the main body is on its way to Kings Landing in a surprise attack... Gotta say would love that twist as it would turn the show completely on its head but I doubt there is anything to it as it seems we are headed in a straight linear path from battle with the dead to battle between the remaining forces of the living...

Although we see Dany's vision of the throne room destroyed when she arrives which gives some hope of a major twist, but we haven't seen one of those since the show passed the books and GRRM is no longer directly writing the story...

Isn’t this confirmed by the intro to the episode? Don’t we see the blue tiles go past Winterfell?

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4 minutes ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

Isn’t this confirmed by the intro to the episode? Don’t we see the blue tiles go past Winterfell?

I had to check, but no, they don't.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, you could also have addressed the point. I was not just ranting, I was also addressing a significant point in the nonsensical characterization of a particular character within the TV continuity. Dany is characterized as a girl who is forced into her role as 'last scion of a royal line supposed to avenge her family and take back what's theirs' against her own will. Originally she has no internal motivation or desire for the Iron Throne nor is that her main priority in light of the story she has for most of the show.

And then there is the fact that she never even sits on the bloody chair. If she had become a crowned and anointed queen last season, say, then her giving up that would have another quality because she would have made a solemn promise to gods and men, etc. to be a queen and she would have been acknowledged as such by a majority of the people, finally gaining all the trappings of power, etc.

But in the show is just a pretender with two dragons and a big army. She isn't a proper queen in any real sense of the world. Just a war lord. And if you are in such a position it is much more easier to give up what you never actually had. Which leads again the fake tension.

Only in a silly world of egocentric actors would things like 'Does she love you enough to give up her throne for you' actually pose a conundrum - because real people would actually resolve such 'a conflict' by marriage and joint rule. In fact, even if those morons didn't love each other a political and loveless marriage would also be the obvious reason to resolve such conflicting claims. Because there is no way that a sane person would want to fight this out while or shortly after they were fighting against a zombie army.

I have to disagree regarding her motivations. While you are right, in the case of the first five seasons, she changed completely in the sixth season, when she was captured by the Dothraki. Which is understandable. She burned the Khals alive, and declared her new motivations infront of the complete united Khalasar. And in her speach to the Khalasar (I hope I am writing that correct) she even made a reference to the promisses that Drogo gave her infront of his Khalasaar back in season 1. By this, she made it clear what she wants. Danny was allways pushed by other people regarding her goals. First her brother, then indirectly by Illyrio, later Drogo, to a certain degree Ser Barristan, then Tyrion. And now she is in a place where she thinks she belongs. It is like a lot of people in real life actually. Will that be her endgame? I don't know. I also dont understand, why she isn't happy about Jons revelation. Because she is already in love with him and would have married him either way. Nothing much has changed actually. She still can be the Queen. And they can rule together. This is what I don't understand.

Edited by T and A

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Also - suddenly Bran knows a lot of stuff again, but when was this actually introduced? All we saw him knowing was stuff about the origin of the creatures and Lyanna/Rhaegar stuff.

We've seen Bran spending time near the weirwood tree since his arrival at Winterfell. I think it's safe to infer that he's been learning things off-screen.

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1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

This episode was excellent, and it really did feel like a last hurrah for some of the characters. 
An episode of quiet contemplation, more reunions, reflection and friendly banter, before the shit hits the fan.

As for Jon and Daenerys, to quote a very good movie-villain: "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen it."

I expected Jon to react with a :o when he heard about his lineage, and he did.
I expected Jon to silently pull away (momentarily) from Daenerys after hearing this, and he did.
I expected Daenerys to initially react with a :o when she heard about Jons lineage and she did.

I did not expect Jon to break the news at the worst possible moment however, but it's a classic Jon-move.

Now we just need them both to survive the next episode, have a huge argument, only for Daenerys to notice that she's pregnant. 

Targ-wedding in episode 5?



 

She didnt take the hint. He didnt want to talk to her. She was in his business. Dude wanted to sulk in peace. 

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4 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

She didnt take the hint. He didnt want to talk to her. She was in his business. Dude wanted to sulk in peace. 

Hah, yeah he probably wanted to, but a "Not now please, I'm contemplating in preparation for the battle" would've sufficed.
Or he could've simply stopped talking after answering her initial question about who rested there (Lyanna Stark).

Instead he had to keep talking and basically shatter her world-view 30 seconds before the AotD attacks.

Good job Jon! :thumbsup:

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

Hah, yeah he probably wanted to, but a "Not now please, I'm contemplating in preparation for the battle" would've sufficed.
Or he could've simply stopped talking after answering her initial question about who rested there (Lyanna Stark).

Instead he had to keep talking and basically shatter her world-view 30 seconds before the AotD attacks.

Good job Jon! :thumbsup:

True. He could have stopped after she wasn't raped and I will tell you the story if we survive. But he is Jon. 

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Honestly, Jon's world-view is also pretty shattered at this point.

Two dragonriders in the biggest battle this series has ever seen, both with recently shattered world-views?

This is gonna be good. *Grabs popcorn*

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1 hour ago, T and A said:

I have to disagree regarding her motivations. While you are right, in the case of the first five seasons, she changed completely in the sixth season, when she was captured by the Dothraki. Which is understandable. She burned the Khals alive, and declared her new motivations infront of the complete united Khalasar. And in her speach to the Khalasar (I hope I am writing that correct) she even made a reference to the promisses that Drogo gave her infront of his Khalasaar back in season 1. By this, she made it clear what she wants. Danny was allways pushed by other people regarding her goals. First her brother, then indirectly by Illyrio, later Drogo, to a certain degree Ser Barristan, then Tyrion. And now she is in a place where she thinks she belongs. It is like a lot of people in real life actually. Will that be her endgame? I don't know. I also dont understand, why she isn't happy about Jons revelation. Because she is already in love with him and would have married him either way. Nothing much has changed actually. She still can be the Queen. And they can rule together. This is what I don't understand.

Sure, but this is just a rather late aspect of her character. It is just wrong that she was always about the Iron Throne, and subsequently it makes no sense to play up the idea that a throne she never sat on in a land she never lived in is the most important aspect of her life. Especially since that's internally contradictory considering she allowed Cersei to keep the throne last season. If she can compromise with her then she most definitely can compromise with Jon as well.

46 minutes ago, Buckyball said:

We've seen Bran spending time near the weirwood tree since his arrival at Winterfell. I think it's safe to infer that he's been learning things off-screen.

Assumptions are irrelevant. For his character and arc to be relevant this should have been part of the plot. Again - what purpose has his entire role and arc that couldn't have resolved by a diary? Sam also learned about Rhaegar and Lyanna and somebody else could also have read about the Children and the Others.

The entire character is completely pointless, even more since he doesn't even participate in the stories and plots he could and would have participated in had he been an actual character (i.e. the Littlefinger nonsense last season or the Jon stuff this season).

Not to mention the fact that he could have helped various characters to reconnect, to help them through their troubles, etc. because he fucking knows everything they went through. He knows what Sansa, Arya, Jon, etc. went through.

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No Kings Landing in this episode, thus no Cersei.  I confess to thinking this lack of her delivery via clenched teeth -- never call it good acting! much less acting at all! -- contributed to this viewer's all over satisfaction with this episode.

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47 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

True. He could have stopped after she wasn't raped and I will tell you the story if we survive. But he is Jon. 

Yes, but maybe that Ned promised to tell Jon about his mother the next time they saw each other...and they never met again. He may not be comfortable with that type of promise. Also, maybe he thought it more honorable that she have full information now, rather than letting her dragons and army save the world and then “stating his claim”.

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