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[Poll] How would you rate episode 802?

How would you rate episode 802?  

287 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

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@Frances Bean Corbray
Amazing rundown. I didn't agree with everything but I very much enjoyed reading trough all of it.
Have a thumbs up good sir.

Quoted so your rundown ends up in a better spot:


Once again we will use the Modified McShane Scoring System to rate this week's very special and very nice 69th episode of Game Of Thrones, and...

...wait a minute.

Oh dear.

Definitely no Dragons, at least that was cut and dry.  And, well, we did kinda sorta have Tits and it's rather hard to ignore that because basically the entire internet is in a tizzy over a brief flash of sideboob and a whole lot of implication.  More on that later.  But this was very close to no tits AND no dragons which would've shaken this highly scientific exercise to its very foundations.

So I guess we're starting at 5?

We begin with Jaime on trial for lack of a better word.  Jaime reports the obvious:  that Cersei is full of shit and ain't gonna help.  Dany wants to fuck him up and Sansa's kinda on board with it.  Tyrion tries to vouch for his brother which just gets him more heat with Dany.  Bran quotes dialogue from earlier, better written seasons which I think is him sticking up for Jaime in his own weird ass way.  Eventually the physical manifestation of Sansa's conscience, Brienne, vouches for Jaime.  Sansa is swayed.  Jon, eye ever on the ball, simply says "we need all the men we can get" and like that Dany is outvoted 2 to 1 and Jaime gets to join the team.  This scene is all about Brie being a god-damned hero and it gets us where we need to be without being too contrived about it.  Do like Dany calling Jon "Warden Of The North" and Sansa side-eying the shit out of that. +.5(5.5)

Dany tells Tyrion he's sucked for 3 seasons now.  Or something like that.  Varys ALMOST gets a line but thinks better of it.  World's flashiest extra.  Kinda sad, really.  I think Varys is gonna die because at this point would he even be missed?  -1 for having nothing for Varys to do.  Dany really could've actually killed him last season instead of just threatening to.(4.5)

Bran doing Bran things in front of the weirwood tree, "Bran things" mostly consisting of staring at shit and enjoying the thorazines, and freaking people the fuck out.  This week it's Jaime's turn.  He apologizes but Bran ain't even mad and points out how it needed to happen for them both to be who they now are, which is who they need to be.  LOVE Bran's line about how Jaime can't fight for them tomorrow if they execute him today.  Jaime asks about afterwards.  WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THERE IS AN AFTERWARDS as Branbot engages run:/C:/Troll Mode.  Glad these two had a chat.  +1 for Bran's troll game. [5.5]

Jorah tries to convince Dany that Tyrion doesn't actually suck that much.  Even if it means he stays demoted.  He's a team player for Dany now, looks like The Fedora might be retired forever.  Dany kinda seems to buy it, coming from Jorah.  Jorah is totally Two Days From Retirement though.

Jon is HYPE to see Edd again and I love it. Tormund intercepts the hug which is hilarious.  Beric just gets a handshake because he's that one dude at the party who doesn't really know anybody and also keeps wanting to talk about Fire Jesus.  Anyway, bad news confirmed, the Umbers of Last Hearth were wiped out and anybody who's not already here is marching with the Night's King.  Bummer, but at least we're all together.  +1 point for happy reunions and Beric being so obviously the odd one out. [6.5]

Arya yells at Gendry to let her production line jump.  Gendry doesn't quite drop a Mr. Spock The Needs Of The Many Outweigh The Needs Of The Few on her, but he's in the ballpark.  Not sure we needed this. Arya's kinda being a dick.  We'll see more of them later (har har har).  -1 point [5.5]

Jaime says he's not the fighter he once was but will be happy to fight under Captain Phasma's command if she'll have him.  Brie's pretty juiced never the less.  It's EH on paper, but the actors have good chemistry

HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS ITS GHOST!  Jon, Sam, and Edd, watching on the wall (not to be confused with The Wall) one last time.  Edd even gets to sound like Edd for what feels like the first time in forever!  Oh, Edd, you dour mofo, dunking on Sam as part of a greater dunk on the entire team.  I've missed you!  I guess this means you're definitely dying next week.  You lasted longer than I feared and as long as I hoped.  +1 point for HOLY SHIT GHOST (who is also definitely dying next week) and one last team shot of Jon with his Night's Watch Homies [6.5]

HOLY SHIT YOU GUYS LORD ROYCE ACTUALLY GOT TO SAY SOMETHING.  Most expensive gloried extra in the world after Varys.  Put him down in the probably dying next week list.  Anyway, Dany is trying to make nicey nice with Sansa.  Dany tries to WELL ACTUALLY Sansa's complaint about men being manipulable by saying she's here because she's in love with Jon So Who Manipulated Who, eh?  Dany is trying to politic and trying to appeal to Sansa's sense of Girl Power but politicing is not Dany's strong suit (that's what she has Varys and Tyrion for), and that loud siren sound you hear is Sansa's Bullshit Detector going Defcon 4.  Sansa is a tad paranoid and cynical and loathe to ever be politically powerless again, being a political prisoner of Cersei will do that to you.  Being a political prisoner of Cersei also makes Dany's girl power talking point a bit of a hard sell.  Sansa wants to know what Dany's plan for The North is, and Dany runs out the clock until they're interrupted by a visitor.  And it turns out to be MY BOY THEON, fresh of being a hero and shit.  Theon does not mention how he rescued his sister but simply says she's on her way to take back the Iron Islands in Dany's name.  All well and good but Dany doesn't quite get why Theon's here, though it becomes clear to her soon enough.  Theon's here to fight for Winterfell if Sansa (NOT Dany, pointedly enough) will have him.  A big smile and a crusher of a hug from Sansa (is Sophie Turner the tallest person on the show now?) confirms that Theon is down to probably die doing the right thing.  Because Sansa and Theon have history and it's complicated but family is family. See, what Dany doesn't get about The North is that people will run through brick walls and into certain death for The Starks because they are beloved.  It's not oaths, it's not might, it's not the loyalty of compulsion.  In a parallel universe or another adaptation, a better-written Stannis would pipe up here about how a king can't just think about his rights, but his duties.  Dany used to have her eye on the ball about this, back in the day, when she was Breaker Of Chains, but lately she's gotten so wrapped up in her birthright she's gotten sidetracked from her desire to be different and not just another tyrant once she gets it.  Anyway, Theon owns bones and I really hope I'm right that he actually survives against all odds. +1 point because the Sansa/Theon hug was surprisingly powerful.  Kinda hope Allen and Turner work together on future projects, honestly. Major Feels. [7.5]

Speaking of Dany and the loyalty she commands, NO GREY WORM DON'T SAY IT!  DON'T DESCRIBE YOUR PLANS FOR WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO AFTER ALL THIS IS OVER!  NOW YOU'RE DEAD!  NO DON'T INCLUDE MISSANDEI IN YOUR PLANS NOW SHE'S GONNA DIE TOO!  So, the thing here is, they don't plan to stick around once Dany's got her throne.  They'll help her win it, but not keep it.  Underlining the whole bit about how conquering is different from administrating and how Dany's way better at the former and not great at the latter and is going to struggle to even keep her team for doing that together.  The Missandei/Grey Worm mush is short and sweet and effective this week.  Too bad Grey Worm gave the most Two Days Away From Retirement speech in the history of film.  They gonna watch each other die now.  Not a fan of how much time this pair has gotten overall, but it was a good length this week and this will be the last time you see it.  Seriously, they both gonna die now.  -.25 legacy point for all the times Missandei and Grey Worm took screen time away from someone I wanted to see more. [7.25]

Battle Plans Complete With Obligatory Risk Board Pieces.  Blink and you'll miss the dialogueless Alys Karstark.  Short Version:  we're pretty well fucked unless we take out the WW captains, including the NK himself.  Not sure we needed the Warhammer 40K miniatures to illustrate that but whatever, the props department's gotta do something and it's one of those fun GoT cliches by this point.  Jaime saliently points out the problem that if the key to eating the enemy is regimental headshots, there's no way the Night's King, in particular, is going to be idiot enough to put himself in a position where he can get murked by a straw arrow Harald Godwinson style.  Dr. Branhattan conveniently speaks up to remind everyone of how he's got The Night's King's fingerprints on him and that the NK has to come for him, because reasons, so dangling himself as bait will totally definitely work.  It's all in mumbojumbo so Sam has to translate it back into English for everyone else, us included.  Theon volunteers to die er I mean guard Bran on the downlow with his retinue of Ironborn which, look, let's be kind here The Ironborn don't have the best W-L record when it comes to Game Of Thrones battles but whatever it's the thought that counts and this all about Theon repaying his debt to his foster family and probably dying while doing so but MAYBE NOT.  So whatevers.  Love Theon and Jaime here but overall -.5 for how ALL SO CONVENIENT Bran being irrestistable Night King bait is.  Some sort of subversive twist has to be coming next week.  Unless Theon actually sucessfully snipes The Night's King and ends up The Biggest Most Important Hero Of All.  If that happens next week I'm giving you fair warning I will automatically rate the whole episode 8 billion out of 10.  If Theon dies after hitting the shot it'll only be 1 billion out of 10 [6.75]

All Bran's babble about memories and books and being the complete record of humanity has given Tyrion the idea that maybe someone should talk to this kid and learn something.  But we don't get to see what that is.  Makes sense they'd talk and this is probably necessary table setting for something else in a couple episodes but this was pretty Meh. -.25 for slightly wasting our time. [6.5]

Davos gives a bowl of soup to a little girl with minor grayscale scarring and he directs her towards the crypts where all the non-combatants will be totally safe.  Uh huh.  "The Crypts will be totally safe" is hammered on about 700 times in this episode just so even if you somehow forget the enemy is a necromancer and raising the dead is his whole schtick, you can still pick up the foreshadowing that the crypts will NOT be safe.  HEADLESS NED GONNA HAPPEN Y'ALL.  Also, Tyrion and Sam are gonna be in the crypts because they suck at fighting except every time they have to they pull it out so you know shit is going down in those crypts.  Anyway, Davos rocks and he's totally fond of the girl that vaguely reminds him of Shireen but Davos is kinda superfluous and I think he's not making it out of next week.  I will give huge bonus points if that little girl turns wight and kills him though. For this week, however, -1 point for going way too hard on the CRYPTS WILL BE SAFE thing.  Might as well have Skeleton Lyanna start stomping about now. [5.5]

Jorah meets up with his cousin the ever snarky young Lady Mormont who yells at him because yelling at grown ups is what she does.  She will NOT be hanging out in the totally safe crypts with all the kids, which is too bad because she could probably beat down some Skeletal Starks just by yelling at them.  She wishes Jorah good fortune, which is nice until you remember "I wish you good fortune" has become Westerosi shorthand for Respectfully Telling Someone To Go Get Fucked since Season 5.  Sam shows up with Heartsbane and gives it to Jorah because it's a big fuck off claymore and as Sam explains he can barely hold the thing.  Jeor was a better dad than his actual dad so Sam's paying it back (or is that paying it forward) by hooking Jorah up with some Valyrian Steel.  Jorah's still Two Days From Retirement [espcially now that we've had a Mormont Family Reunion], I feel, but at least he'll go out like a badass this way. +1 [6.5]

Tyrion and Jaime have some wine and talk about dad.  Everybody cool with nothing better to do shows up.  Pod, Brie, Davos, Tormund.  Brie points out that getting drunk before fighting for your life may not be the greatest idea and tells Pod to keep it to half a cup.  Tyrion tops him off anyway.  Tormund tells the story about how he got the name Giantsbane and makes bedroom eyes at Brienne.

Drinking outside, drinking inside.  Arya cracks a cold one with The Hound because Ed Sheeran established Arya's old enough to drink last season.  Beric shows up to talk about Fire Jesus and immediately gets told to shut up.  Sandor says the Lord of Light is gonna wonder why he bothered bringing Beric back 19 times just to have Sandor chuck him over the wall just before the big fight.  Sandor is awesome.  But Arya doesn't want to spend her time with miserable old dudes.  At first I was glad show Beric lasted longer than book Beric but he really doesn't fit in anymore and I'm past ready for him to go.  The good news is next week he almost certainly will -.5 for overexposing a book character I dug.[6]

Arya practicing archery.  Gendry obviously creeping on here.  You know where this is going.  Gendry has made Arya her special thingy, which is a dragonglass tipped version of the Darth Maul spear.  Which is oddly fitting since the Night's King does look rather Darth Maulish.  Arya's dialogue isn't great here, sounds like standard jealousy shit as she interrogates Gendry on his sexual history.  But really she just wants to confirm he knows what he's doing because she wants her V-Card punched before they all die.  Also Gendry lets slip that he's Robert Baratheon's bastard, which doesn't really matter anymore.  Arya having scars (presumably from Faceless Training) is one of the few upsides here.  Arya totally wears the pants in this relationship, surprising no one.  Oh, wait, I guess nobody's wearing pants after all.  Whatever, if I thought I was dying in Ragnarok I'd probably wanna get one last bone in (or first bone, in Arya's case) the night before too.  Could've been shorter.  Could've done without the jealousy fakeout.  Probably didn't need bareback and sideboob but then again this IS HBO.  -.25 [5.75]

HERE'S THE GOOD SHIT.  Back to the fireplace party, Tormund asks about Westeros' knighting tradition and we go over how Brienne technically isn't one even though she does all sorts of knightly shit.  "If I were a king I'd knight you 10 times over."  Jaime interrupts and points out that knighthood does not require a king, only another knight, and HOLY SHIT YES IT IS HAPPENING.  HEADCANON CONFIRMED.  Brienne doesn't react at first because she's expecting bullshit.  But Jaime is totally serious about this and yes, it absolutely happens.  JAIME ANOINTS BRIENNE AS A KNIGHT OF THE SEVEN KINGDOMS IN THE NAME OF THE SEVEN GODS.  Fuck.  Yes.  Well, the bad news is Brienne, having finally earned the official on paper respect she has always wanted and deserved but never gotten, just jumped way ahead in line on the "probably dying next week" list, but valar morghulis and all that shit.  This was great.  Good (enough) writing.  Good acting.  Fanservice done right.  Some honest to damn goodness denouemont up in this place.   Also I half-called this years ago.  Technically I expected one or both of them to already be mortally wounded when this goes down and I'll hold onto that bookside, but this is pretty close to "right before one of them dies" in a sense.  Beautiful climax for Brienne's story and character.  And lots of Feels.  +2 points [7.75]

Meanwhile, in the Totally Safe Crypts, Dany creeps on Jon and catches him checking out Lyanna's statue, which has gotten a couple graphics upgrades since Robert blubbered at Ned in front of it long ago.  Yep, you know what's coming.  Jon spills the beans.  Dany is not as enthused as Jon hopes.  She immediately points out A] you realize this puts you ahead of me in line, right? and B] isn't it convenient that your best friend and your brother came up with this shit on some rather spurrious evidence?  Both of them very much avoid the Aunt/Nephew incest implications of this reveal.  This did not go well.  Also, the irony here is that in this moment Jon acts the most he possibly could like Ned's actual son:  blurting out an inconvenient alliance-threatening truth right before a big showdown where keeping that alliance is a matter of life and death, all while having evidence that we the audience know is legit but is really dubious and circumstantial in universe.

minus half a point for ignoring the aunt/nephew thing because it's wonderfully gross and ALSO it complicates the "well let's just get married" easy way out of this and that in turn forces Dany to make a very thematically important moral choice w.r.t. the rights of a monarch vs. the duties of a monarch, especially with her ideals about Breaking The Wheel. [7.25]

POD CAN SING.  Not sure Jenny Of Oldstones dancing with ghosts old and new is the best pre-battle pump up music when you're due for a ragnarok first thing tomorrow, though.  But it was nice to have a new song.  I think this means Pod is dying next week though.  Just a hunch.

Final shot is of the unofficial three heads of the dragon, on the ramparts.  Dany pulls away without saying a word to Jon.  Jon sulks away.  Tyrion is left alone, staring out into the darkness.  White Walker theme song cues up, pan across the snow, and we pull up to the White Walkers, astride their zombie horses.  The Night's King himself, along with Viserion, are not shown, however.  HMMM. DUN DUN DUN. I'm gonna have some fun getting in some quick crackpot speculation on what he's up to for the next few days before the show disappoints me and makes it all wrong.

wait a minute.  Nobody died this week?  Lame!  Well, they'll definitely be overcorrecting in next week's feature film length 82 minute episode.

FINAL SCORE: 7.25 out of 10.

Dialogue is still pretty choppy and behind where it was in past seasons (Arya has gotten pretty bad and Williams really seeming to have fun with and loving the character is probably keeping it from looking even worse) but there's still plenty of equity from Seasons 1-4 the show can trade in on to generate some effective emotional payoffs and as long as it can execute those competently (this week's theme:  saying goodbyes) I'm going to like what I see.  This episode did what I think they set out to do with it and hell, I guess at 7.25 out of 10 I liked it more than i didn't.  Episode as a whole didn't blow me away but one scene in particular did, and it tried to get me to care about these characters again and it succeeded with some of them, at least.

NEXT WEEK:  A Shit Ton Of People Die, and I probably take my vengeance on the scorecard if a couple key people are or aren't in that shit ton.

Edited by MinscS2
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13 hours ago, legba11 said:

Arya was very young when the show started (10 I believe),

Arya was 11 in S1 and is now 18.

13 hours ago, legba11 said:

If you are trying to make time on the show show make sense, then it is possibl you view Arya as maybe 13 years old.  If so...

The age and timeline is very clear and widely accepted roughly one year per season. There are more than enough clues as to how the time passes. All the wars need a lot of time, so does Arya's training in Bravos or Eurons building a fleet of thousand ships.

ExampleS: In S2 we get the clue that Roberts Rebellion is now 18 years ago, while it was 17 years ago in S1. In S3 Talisa states that the war now lasts for 2 years already. And so on.


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12 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Did the episode move the story forward, give us new details>   0

How you watched the same episode?

Bran explains the main motive of the Nightking.

Jamie and Bran, Brienne voucing for Jamie, Jamie knighting Brienne... that is story developing

But yes, E2 was more "farewell" for us and in-show preparation for the battle.

12 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

Did the episode give us more time with GreyWorm and Missendei?  -4

Some moan about too many side-characters, you moan about too little time of two minor characters? Well, this is the episode before the great war and a farewell to many main characters. They even got a short scene. What do you want more?

11 hours ago, HellasLEAF said:

It's also very re-watchable. 

Absolutely. I watched it three times now. So good... an excellent episode. Much better than E1.

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Someone remembered how to write half decent dialogue! Probably because it wasn't being used to tell the story due to the fact that there was none being told. The show has used dialogue too often to cheaply tell the story and for exposition when these should mostly be told visually. The dialogue in this episode felt much more organic, less forced.

Still a myriad issues but the dialogue was such a pleasant surprise that I feel quite positive about it.


My best rating in a very long time

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This episode mended a lot of fences between people and brought a major potential conflict between the two main characters, Jon and Dany. For an action-less episode it was excellent, and it set the stage for, I'm hoping, four final roller coasters.

I don't think Bran's bait plan is going to work. The Night King won't bite. I'd be surprised if he's even at Winterfell. Winter is coming for King's Landing instead. That's a far more lucrative and far less defended target in the eyes of the dead. As for the rest of those White Walkers, well, they're fucked. The Night King is sacrificing a rook (couple hundred thousand undead at Winterfell) to gain a queen (a million undead at King's Landing).

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i rated it a 5.

i was pretty disappointed with this episode. the dialogues were pretty bad and the staged meetups didnt help either. things i thought to be worst were

- arya and gendry going for a ride - this one was just cringeworthy and didnt fit at all to the character arya lately developed. i dont mind to see a naked arya though, she is a grown up now and this may very well also be shown. nudity is part of game of throwns so there is nothing special about it.

- tormund being like an adolescent about brienne - its just childish bs. i am 100% pro briemund but not in this slapsticky stupid way. 

- sam giving his family sword to jorah - jorah should have never accepted the sword and should have pointed out that sam is now the rightous owner of it. maybe one of the weakest flaws of this episode, to my taste.

- ghost - a husky ignored by jon? even though dogs are simply annoying animals to me, ghost (if it really was ghost...) didnt deserve this. a direwolf the size of a husky? cmon.

writingwise i found this episode to be as bad as the worst episodes of the last season. i just gave it a 5 since it has been 2 years to see my favourite show continue. this episode was weaksauce.

they should have dived straight into the fight with the undead in episode 1 and set the meetups along the fights on the battlefield. until now it  was just a display of uninspired writing. and where, where is sweetrobin? i would rate any episode with him riding on scene with full armor, ready to fight, an insta-10. sweetrobin ftw! 


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3 hours ago, GilletteMace said:

Tormund being like an adolescent about brienne - its just childish bs. i am 100% pro briemund but not in this slapsticky stupid way. 

I have been tired of Tormund lately as well.  Was he always this bad?  I thought I used to like him.  The behavior is just too over the top.  Kind of like a lot of the lame 'jokes' they've been wasting time on in Ep 1 and 2. 

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Gave it a 4. Set up episode after last week's set up episode.


The remarkable moment was that one that gives the title to this episode: Brienne becoming a knight of the seven kingdoms. That scene nearly made me cry.


As for the rest, it felt as if they were all saying goodbye because many will die in the next episode, and nothing else.

Also, it is surprising how Dany's lust for power grew, but she still listens to her advisors (Jorah/Dany scene)

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A solid 8 and, like others have said, one of the best since s4. We don't need spectacle or big events to deliver a good episode. 

Two things I enjoyed that I haven't seen others mention:

One horn for rangers returning, three horns for white walkers. 


When Brienne is speaking with Jaime about Pod: is she actually speaking about Pod? Or is she telling Jaime about himself? 

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I'm amazed at the quality of the show in S8 knowing it isn't following the books anymore. Dare I say it's better so far than most of the season starters ?

I don't wanna jinx it though. I've been critical of D&D in the past but credits where credits due, they are knocking it out the park so far, bar a few mistakes (really think Jon riding the dragon was too soon). 

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I liked this episode way more than the previous one, I gave it an eight.

The part I liked the most was Brienne's knighting and the reference to Ser Duncan the Tall. It was one of the very few things I didn't really expect... I watched it already several times, and cried every time I did. I was happy to see Jaime apologise to Bran, but to be honest I was expecting something more. Don't get me wrong, Nicolaj is an excellent actor, but the scene felt too short.

The Arya-Gendry thing was really awkward. I was expecting something happening between them, especially considering Robert's line from episode s01e01 ("I have a son, you have a daughter. We'll join our houses."), but I would have preferred a few minutes of foreplay. I get that they want to portrait Arya as dominant in this situation, but being a woman I hate when I see in movies women deliberately skipping foreplay, and it felt particularly odd because that was Arya's first time.


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13 hours ago, 21st Century Moose said:

One horn for rangers returning, three horns for white walkers. 

Yeah, great, fine that you mention that! I liked that, too. 

8 hours ago, LadyOlenna said:

but being a woman I hate when I see in movies women deliberately skipping foreplay, and it felt particularly odd because that was Arya's first time

Yes, the first time issue makes it a bit strange.

Maybe see it this way:

(1) She dreamed about Gendry for the last days, the faceless men's game aroused her, she stripped and already was very excited.

(2) We have not seen what happend after their kissing in bed. There don't has to be immediate penetration just because Arya is on top. We don't see any details. Maybe they kissed and rolled over for several times, maybe Gendry caresses her quite a lot... many, many things can have happened before first penetration actually occured.

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6 hours ago, Stark_in_Winterfell said:

He has been demoted to house pet.

Upon closer look the shot doesn't really show most of his legs so it adds to the affect.  

Would it have killed them to show ghost a little better?  Fans have been dying for that moment.  About the only misstep in an otherwise great episode.  

Maybe we get more in Ep. 3. 

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