Jon faction VS Daenerys faction

[MinscS2]

5 minutes ago, longest night said:

She had no idea why Jorah forgave Tyrion. 

I don't think anyone does honestly.
I love Jorah and I love(d) Tyrion, but Jorah vouching for Tyrion the way he did, when he did in this episode, felt like a forced plot-device (RIP Jorah?).
Tyrion has been a really bad advisor to Daenerys ever since S6. He's been letting people trick and outwit him on a regular basis, something Tyrion admits to Jamie and to himself. Daenerys essentially told him "you've sucked for 2 seasons now" and his reaction is basically "...yes I have".

With that said, I hope that the last episode means that Tyrion is back to being the clever little man we all (used to) love.
With Daenerys suddenly vouching for him (via Jorah, but still) in the war room in addition to her surprisingly honest explanation to Sansa as to why she made Tyrion her hand in the first place, it feels like he got one more (last?) chance to prove himself. Him sitting down talking to Dr.Branhattan gave me good feels, it's something that old smarTyrion would do.

...or it all means nothing, Jorah, Greyworm and Varys all die in the next episode which causes her to finally snap and become Aerys 2.0
 

[longest night]

5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

I don't think anyone does honestly.
I love Jorah and I love(d) Tyrion, but Jorah vouching for Tyrion the way he did, when he did in this episode, felt like a forced plot-device (RIP Jorah?).
Tyrion has been a really bad advisor to Daenerys ever since S6. He's been letting people trick and outwit him on a regular basis, something Tyrion admits to Jamie and to himself. Daenerys essentially told him "you've sucked for 2 seasons now" and his reaction is basically "...yes I have".

With that said, I hope that the last episode means that Tyrion is back to being the clever little man we all (used to) love.
With Daenerys suddenly vouching for him (via Jorah, but still) in the war room in addition to her surprisingly honest explanation to Sansa as to why she made Tyrion her hand in the first place, it feels like he got one more (last?) chance to prove himself. Him sitting down talking to Dr.Branhattan gave me good feels, it's something that old smarTyrion would do.

...or it all means nothing, Jorah, Greyworm and Varys all die in the next episode which causes her to finally snap and become Aerys 2.0
 

Tyrion is diving further into his dark self. He imagined himself tearing Cersei apart. That's very much book Tyrion, even if it's creeping up later in the series. He may try to over compensate for his past failings, and that could be worse than just failing. There's been two times they filmed him being boxed in alone at the rampart, once during the day in ep1 and once at night at the end of ep2.

[MinscS2]

Just now, longest night said:

Tyrion is diving further into his dark self. He imagined himself tearing Cersei apart. That's very much book Tyrion, even if it's creeping up later in the series. He may try to over compensate for his past failings, and that could be worse than just failing.

Good, gives me vibes of the smarter more likeable Tyrion from S1-S3, and to some extent, S4-S5.

Tyrion being back to imagining ways to kill Cersei means he's no longer dumb enough to fall for her obvious bullshit like he was in S7.

[longest night]

17 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Good, gives me vibes of the smarter more likeable Tyrion from S1-S3, and to some extent, S4-S5.

Tyrion being back to imagining ways to kill Cersei means he's no longer dumb enough to fall for her obvious bullshit like he was in S7.

Book Tyrion was never really that smart. He prided himself as clever, and we get his actions and justifications from his point of view, but almost everything he touched went to hell in a hand basket.

[MinscS2]

3 hours ago, longest night said:

Book Tyrion was never really that smart. He prided himself as clever, and we get his actions and justifications from his point of view, but almost everything he touched went to hell in a hand basket.

Just a friendly advice. 

You're new to the forums, but I've already seen you refer to the books in several of your posts here.
For your own sake ("and the safety of those around you"), don't use the books as any form of source when discussing the show.
They are two wholly separate entities at this point.

[Anthony Pirtle]

If they'd introduced the tension between the strengths of Dany and Jon's respective claims to the throne before introducing their romance, I'd assume marriage would be how it'd be resolved. Given the reverse is true, I'm betting hard that one or both are dead before it's over.

[longest night]

5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Just a friendly advice. 

You're new to the forums, but I've already seen you refer to the books in several of your posts here.
For your own sake ("and the safety of those around you"), don't use the books as any form of source when discussing the show.
They are two wholly separate entities at this point.

If we are talking about Tyrion's current character arc and why people are so baffled why he's making stupid mistakes. The show mischaracterized his character and are now playing catch up, which is throwing people off. If the plans is for the show writers is to end Tyrion similar to the book, all of it is necessary.

[Error-504]

4 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I don't think anyone does honestly.
I love Jorah and I love(d) Tyrion, but Jorah vouching for Tyrion the way he did, when he did in this episode, felt like a forced plot-device (RIP Jorah?).
Tyrion has been a really bad advisor to Daenerys ever since S6. He's been letting people trick and outwit him on a regular basis, something Tyrion admits to Jamie and to himself. Daenerys essentially told him "you've sucked for 2 seasons now" and his reaction is basically "...yes I have".

With that said, I hope that the last episode means that Tyrion is back to being the clever little man we all (used to) love.
With Daenerys suddenly vouching for him (via Jorah, but still) in the war room in addition to her surprisingly honest explanation to Sansa as to why she made Tyrion her hand in the first place, it feels like he got one more (last?) chance to prove himself. Him sitting down talking to Dr.Branhattan gave me good feels, it's something that old smarTyrion would do.

...or it all means nothing, Jorah, Greyworm and Varys all die in the next episode which causes her to finally snap and become Aerys 2.0
 

Jorah is setting Tyrion up, the perfect fall guy. Doubt is already been cast on Tyrion's true allegiance, so it is no longer a stretch for Dany to consider Tyrion a traitor. Jorah is doing this for love. Maybe Tyrion is acquitted in his eventual trial. If Jorah survives this week, I expect this is how it will play out. 

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I don't think anyone does honestly.
I love Jorah and I love(d) Tyrion, but Jorah vouching for Tyrion the way he did, when he did in this episode, felt like a forced plot-device (RIP Jorah?).
Tyrion has been a really bad advisor to Daenerys ever since S6. He's been letting people trick and outwit him on a regular basis, something Tyrion admits to Jamie and to himself. Daenerys essentially told him "you've sucked for 2 seasons now" and his reaction is basically "...yes I have".

With that said, I hope that the last episode means that Tyrion is back to being the clever little man we all (used to) love.
With Daenerys suddenly vouching for him (via Jorah, but still) in the war room in addition to her surprisingly honest explanation to Sansa as to why she made Tyrion her hand in the first place, it feels like he got one more (last?) chance to prove himself. Him sitting down talking to Dr.Branhattan gave me good feels, it's something that old smarTyrion would do.

...or it all means nothing, Jorah, Greyworm and Varys all die in the next episode which causes her to finally snap and become Aerys 2.0
 

Tyrion's mouth has always got him into trouble.  Book Tyrion would have made a succession of lewd jokes at Dany's expense which would finally cause her to roast him.

[Kajjo]

11 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Still...she married Hizdahr because she wanted to make a home in Meereen no matter how temporary.

She did NOT marry him. The whole stuff unravels in a different manner and ends with death.

The announcement of marriage was purely political, as Daenerys states directly. No "opinion" about this is needed. We know how this was meant. 

Daenerys never intended to be "a good wife" do this guy.

[Joshua Lizard]

On 4/21/2019 at 4:42 PM, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I know that out dear old unambitious Jon doesn't want to be King, but Sam made it pretty clear that he would rather Jon be the ruler then Daenerys. 

Excepting the inhabitants of King's Landing, I don't know why anyone would care who sits on the iron throne.  In Mideval times, swearing fealty meant forfeitting a portion of your income in taxes and pledging the support of your army if the king should need it.  In return the king would have a duty to ensure your protection from foreign invaders.  In the GOT universe it seems to mean you can keep your lands, your income and your sovereinty so long as you kneel down every time the king farts.  
In the real world, wars aren't fought over trivial gestures of respect or submission.  In the real world if Aegon the Conqueror had told Argilac the Arrogant that he could either be burned at the stake and beheaded or keep his lands, income, and freedom if he would do the service of inflating the Targarian's ego by bowing down before him... and in response Argilac  said, "I would rather rot in hell than bend my knee to the likes of you," before commanding his knights to go charging into battle against fire breathing dragons (Ha), his knights would have turned their swords against their arrogant king in a heart beat... and rightly so.  
Don't get me wrong, other than that I love the show but the least realistic thing about it is the culture of megalomania and toxic pride that seems to motivate almost every character.  

[El Guapo]

13 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

My way or the highway. She would make an awful ruler. Her leadership consists of ''you either bow to me or I will burn you''. That's shades of a dictator.

Jon tells her he is family, and the only thing she can think of is him being a threat to her throne. If it wasn't for his advisors and her being easily influenced by others, she'd be a villain. Maybe she still will be, though I don't think the show will go that far. They'll probably tie it all up by Dany giving up on the Throne. I mean the death are knocking at their door, a very slim chance of survival and in the face of that the throne is her obsession. Her father was a dictator. I'm not saying Dany is exactly like her father, duh. But she is showing shades of being a dictator. And like I said, without the compassion and empathy of her advisors, she would be a full on dictator. Wants to break the wheel but thinks the answer to that is only and only her being the leader of everyone. She is a hypocrite but that's another matter.  

Really? Than why are Jon and Davos still alive? Last time I checked neither of them bowed to her when they first met her. And where are you getting this "my way or the highway" nonsense in a episode where she listened to the what the people around her were saying in regards to Jamie and then deferred to their opinion and let Jamie join the fight? Last season she deferred to Tyrion more often than not as well.  Honestly, I think you are watching a different show.

[King Jon Snow Stark]

21 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Really? Than why are Jon and Davos still alive? Last time I checked neither of them bowed to her when they first met her. And where are you getting this "my way or the highway" nonsense in a episode where she listened to the what the people around her were saying in regards to Jamie and then deferred to their opinion and let Jamie join the fight? Last season she deferred to Tyrion more often than not as well.  Honestly, I think you are watching a different show.

People will be really disappointed if Dany does not become a Mad Queen. I see Dany as a conqueror. She is ruthless but if she wins at some point she has to govern. The way she dealt with Jaime and the news about Cersei I think she might be able to govern. 

[Greenmonsterff]

On 4/22/2019 at 11:34 AM, Jabar of House Titan said:

Major being whom?

Because according to GRRM (who is unreliable considering he changes his mind so much), there should be six. Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Daenerys and Sansa.

No Cersei or Jaime?

[Greenmonsterff]

On 4/22/2019 at 1:28 PM, tinyskeeveuk said:

For someone who likes handing it out, you don't appear to like it when someone fights back. 

The first thing we agree on: yes, we're done. 

Lol. You two need to get a room and work off all that tension.

[Haskelltier]

14 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I don't think anyone does honestly.
I love Jorah and I love(d) Tyrion, but Jorah vouching for Tyrion the way he did, when he did in this episode, felt like a forced plot-device (RIP Jorah?).
Tyrion has been a really bad advisor to Daenerys ever since S6. He's been letting people trick and outwit him on a regular basis, something Tyrion admits to Jamie and to himself. Daenerys essentially told him "you've sucked for 2 seasons now" and his reaction is basically "...yes I have".
 

 

Well, I think thats more or less because of bad writing. At the beginning of session 7 Daenerys was sailing with a big army and three dragons to Westeros. Cersei on the other hand had blown up the sept of Baelor, should never be queen (because she has literally no claim to the throne) and here military is small compared to what Daenerys had (Dorne, Tyrell, Unsullied, Dothraki and dragons). Under normal circumstances, she should have directly sieged Kingslanding and claimed the throne. But that wouldn't be an exciting story. Therefore Daenerys had to lose her advantage and therefore Tyrion couldn't give her good counsel.

[MinscS2]

1 minute ago, Haskelltier said:

 

Well, I think thats more or less because of bad writing. At the beginning of session 7 Daenerys was sailing with a big army and three dragons to Westeros. Cersei on the other hand had blown up the sept of Baelor, should never be queen (because she has literally no claim to the throne) and here military is small compared to what Daenerys had (Dorne, Tyrell, Unsullied, Dothraki and dragons). Under normal circumstances, she should have directly sieged Kingslanding and claimed the throne. But that wouldn't be an exciting story. Therefore Daenerys had to lose her advantage and therefore Tyrion couldn't give her good counsel.

Agreed on all counts.
If the show would've follow any form of logic, Cersei would've been dethroned by S7E3 at the latest.
Wouldn't have made for "good TV" though, and a part of me agrees.
It would've been too easy. It makes more sense, but it would've made everything past this too easy.

[Haskelltier]

5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Agreed on all counts.
If the show would've follow any form of logic, Cersei would've been dethroned by S7E3 at the latest.
Wouldn't have made for "good TV" though, and a part of me agrees.
It would've been too easy. It makes more sense, but it would've made everything past this too easy.

Well, they could have easily ommitted these problems. Instead of killing Tommen and giving the support of Dorne and Tyrell to Dany, they could have left Tommen in place with support of at least the Tyrells. Then Daenerys would only have her dragons and the Unsullied + Dothraki and she would have to convince other lords (in the North, Vale, Riverlands) to support her and to finally overthrow Tommen and Cersei. That would be far more plausible. Instead we got stupid mistakes, a suicide mission north of the Wal, where everyone should have died, and so on.

[Cas Stark]

3 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Agreed on all counts.
If the show would've follow any form of logic, Cersei would've been dethroned by S7E3 at the latest.
Wouldn't have made for "good TV" though, and a part of me agrees.
It would've been too easy. It makes more sense, but it would've made everything past this too easy.

I can see from the show perspective why they kept Cersei alive and ruling, but at least as a nod to realism, we might have seen some riots in KL and be given a couple of lines with Qyborn that indicate she's ruling through terror, instead of having her appear to be sitting pretty, drinking wine and dreaming of killing her enemies without a care in the world. because everyone is totally cool with her blowing up the sept and killing the HS and Marg.

[starklover]

there will likely be no throne at the end.