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Euron III Greyjoy

Jon faction VS Daenerys faction

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5 minutes ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

I don’t know. I think it would be pretty on-brand if Dany betrays him and the North with something akin to the Red Wedding after the battle is won leading to the death of him and Sansa, or at the very least having a murky grey moment where Dany lets him die. 

She wouldn’t even take Daario’s advice and stage a RW type massacre in Meereen to deal with the SotH, but she’s going to kill the man she loves and his family? 

The Dany hate on this board continues to make it nearly impossible to discuss her rationally. 

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2 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Agree to disagree then.
Doubt it's of any importance anyway.

I mean, Barristan and GW always served her well, too, but to me she was talking about the other man she loved.  

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Just now, MinscS2 said:

And Drogo raped her a few times.

Dany made it clear in this episode that whatever wrongs Jorah had done, where "long ago and long forgiven"

Well that’s an age old show issue and Daenerys in both book and show remembered Drogo with affection and it’s a fact that Drogo only ever kept his word to her and didn’t rule with deception (but raw strength, as the Dothraki do), aka he was true to his word. To Daenerys and in general.

Being true to his word doesn’t apply to Jorah in general or regarding Daenerys. Sure she forgave him but that doesn’t erase his betrayal. 

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8 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

It could be, but I'm not so sure.

Daenerys: "I'm here because I love your brother. And I trust him. And I know he's true to his worth. He's only the second man in my life I can say that about."
Sansa: "Who was the first?"
Daenerys: "Someone taller."

Bear in mind that this scene came right after her heartwarming scene with Jorah.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the two men Daenerys trusts are Jorah and Jon, not Drogo and Jon.


 

I thought it Kraznys Mo Nakloz.

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1 minute ago, SeanF said:

I thought it Kraznys Mo Nakloz.

Yes, he was true to his word and never lied as well, because apparently that's the only criteria here. ;)
 

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8 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

She wouldn’t even take Daario’s advice and stage a RW type massacre in Meereen to deal with the SotH, but she’s going to kill the man she loves and his family? 

The Dany hate on this board continues to make it nearly impossible to discuss her rationally. 

D & D might go there, however.

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Just now, SeanF said:

D & D might go there, however.

Nope. Both they and GRRM have stated the endings for the major characters will be the same. 

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10 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

And Drogo raped her a few times.

Dany made it clear in this episode that whatever wrongs Jorah had done, where "long ago and long forgiven"

There was a huge language barrier in between Daenerys and Drogo.

So what if Dany says that he raped her? It is true in a sense but she couldn't communicate what she wanted or didn't want and he could not understand. Notice how everything changed once Daenerys learned how to speak Dothraki?

Dany does not hate Drogo. It started off rough but their relationship became a beautiful one of love, trust and mutual respect.

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

There was a huge language barrier in between Daenerys and Drogo.

So what if Dany says that he raped her? It is true in a sense but she couldn't communicate what she wanted or didn't want and he could not understand. Notice how everything changed once Daenerys learned how to speak Dothraki?

Dany does not hate Drogo. It started off rough but their relationship became a beautiful one of love, trust and mutual respect.

*Puts on a thousand pair of glasses*
...really?

Rape is part of the dothraki "culture". They loot, pillage and rape in non-dothraki areas where people speak different languages than they do.
I'm pretty sure they, and hence their fucking Khal, knows what a rape is.

And I didn't say Dany didn't love or respect Drogo, please don't twist my (Daenerys) words. 

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1 minute ago, Nictarion said:

Nope. Both they and GRRM have stated the endings for the major characters will be the same. 

Major being whom?

Because according to GRRM (who is unreliable considering he changes his mind so much), there should be six. Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Daenerys and Sansa.

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Posted (edited)

Everything is set up for the second Dance here, and Dany's thirst for the throne is still very clear. I think she just needs one more push and that could be catching wind of how Sam intends to overthrow her. Jon seems to be taking Sam's lead. Sansa wont bend like Mariah Martell. Jon would fight Dany to defend Westeros and his family. Imagine if Westeros had their own hidden Targaryen defender and his sisters to protect them from Aegon. Bad. Ass.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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Just now, Jabar of House Titan said:

Major being whom?

Because according to GRRM (who is unreliable considering he changes his mind so much), there should be six. Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion, Daenerys and Sansa.

And probably Jaime and Cersei. 

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1 minute ago, MinscS2 said:

*Puts on a thousand pair of glasses*
...really?

Rape is part of the dothraki "culture". They loot, pillage and rape in non-dothraki areas where people speak different languages than they do.
I'm pretty sure they, and hence their fucking Khal, knows what a rape is.

And I didn't say Dany didn't love or respect Drogo, please don't twist my (Daenerys) words. 

Well, you're right. But the Dothraki have a very different relationship to sex than other cultures do both in real life and in the world. They are written that way. Remember, weddings are supposed to be bloody battlefields. And need I remind you that the Dothraki have sex out in the open in front of others and that nudity is never an issue to them.

Drogo, in particular, is a strange case. Why would a Dothraki khal have a rather expensive and detailed manse in Pentos? Why would a Dothraki khal go out of his way to marry a princess of Valyrian descent? Why would a Dothraki khal have a diplomatic relationship with so many politicans and magisters in the Free Cities?

I think we'll find out more about Drogo in Winds because his mother is likely to be a member of the Dosh Khaleen.

But there's definitely more to him than what we thought.

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5 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Well, you're right. But the Dothraki have a very different relationship to sex than other cultures do both in real life and in the world. They are written that way. Remember, weddings are supposed to be bloody battlefields. And need I remind you that the Dothraki have sex out in the open in front of others and that nudity is never an issue to them.

Drogo, in particular, is a strange case. Why would a Dothraki khal have a rather expensive and detailed manse in Pentos? Why would a Dothraki khal go out of his way to marry a princess of Valyrian descent? Why would a Dothraki khal have a diplomatic relationship with so many politicans and magisters in the Free Cities?

I think we'll find out more about Drogo in Winds because his mother is likely to be a member of the Dosh Khaleen.

But there's definitely more to him than what we thought.

I agree, 

Besides, not too far in the distant past, a man taking his "marital rights" wasn't committing rape either, even though we now--thankfully--agree that marriage doesn't mean consent forever. Drogo understands victory rape. That *is* part of Dothraki culture, but I don't think that he thought that what he was engaging in with Dany was rape, even though we know it was. 

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Posted (edited)

Honestly it doesn't matter if Drogo thought it was rape or not.
All that matters in this case is if Daenerys thought it was rape or not, and she clearly did.

If you want to make a case about Jorah not being one of the two tall men Daenerys trusts and considers to be true to their word because he betrayed her once, then you can't out of convenience ignore the fact that Drogo raped her on several occasions,  or because "Drogo didn't know", because ultimately it boils down to what Daenerys thought of it. 

Ultimately she came to love Drogo despite the...rough start to their marriage, just as she came to trust Jorah, despite his betrayal.

Edited by MinscS2

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To me it seems like Daenerys will betray the living and join the dead. Daenerys has done some pretty bad things, but due to her being portrayed as a hero I feel like most people overlook her actions. The clearest being:

Stannis burns people = bad

Daenerys burns people = good

S8 seems like it really wants to drive home the fact that Daenerys is a tyrant. Lets not forget she did sail to Westoros to conquer free people. These aren't slaves in Essos. If the dead weren't about to march on the North, she'd be burning people alive in the south.

Her anger at Sansa wanting the North for the North and Jon for telling her he is the rightful heir must be leading to something more than simply "Oh lets forget about it"

I believe something like this will happen:

The battle at Winterfell see's a lot of casualties, but the living force the dead back. The turning point being the death of the ice dragon by Jon, but subsequenty losing whichever dragon he is riding. With the the living getting some time to relax the discussion comes up about Jon being king and the vast majority want Jon to rule. Daenerys gets angry and flies north with the last dragon and becomes the Nights Queen= Ice and Fire.

 

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1 minute ago, A Dance with Davos said:

To me it seems like Daenerys will betray the living and join the dead. Daenerys has done some pretty bad things, but due to her being portrayed as a hero I feel like most people overlook her actions. The clearest being:

Stannis burns people = bad

 Daenerys burns people = good

S8 seems like it really wants to drive home the fact that Daenerys is a tyrant. Lets not forget she did sail to Westoros to conquer free people. These aren't slaves in Essos. If the dead weren't about to march on the North, she'd be burning people alive in the south.

You're massively cherry-picking right now. 
"All my life I've known one goal: The Iron Throne. Taking it back from the people who destroyed my family and almost destroyed yours. My war, was against them. Until I met Jon. Now I'm here, half a world away, fighting Jon's war along side him. Tell me, who manipulated whom?"

Yes, Daenerys is clearly set up to be an evil tyrant... :rolleyes:

The battle at Winterfell see's a lot of casualties, but the living force the dead back. The turning point being the death of the ice dragon by Jon, but subsequenty losing whichever dragon he is riding. With the the living getting some time to relax the discussion comes up about Jon being king and the vast majority want Jon to rule. Daenerys gets angry and flies north with the last dragon and becomes the Nights Queen= Ice and Fire



What a load of rubbish...

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