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Euron III Greyjoy

Jon faction VS Daenerys faction

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

In the first episode you mean, LOL?  She wanted to go home in 1 episode, even though she doesn't know where 'home' is. From 2-6, she becomes comfortable as Khaleesi, and doesn't appear to have any problem with her brother's plan to go to Westeros.  After Drogo kills Vicerys, from eps 6-10 she wants to retake the IT, and she does for the rest of the series so far. 

Dany is a conqueror, not a home body, she's not going to end the show raising children and baking cookies.  The dragon plants no trees.

Clearly Daenerys WANTS to be a homebody and raise children and bake cookies.

Why else does she continue to mourn Drogo and Rhaego so much? Why else does she follow Jon to the ends of the earth? Why else did she stay in Meereen so long? Why was she so ready and willing to marry Hizdahr?

Come on now. Daenerys knows exactly where home was in episode 1. Her very first scene began with her longingly staring across the Narrow Sea in Pentos. What's directly across from Pentos? King's Landing and Dragonstone....aka home.

Daenerys just wants a home. She clearly thought she could make a nice home for herself with Drogo (and she was sorta correct in doing so). She clearly loved and respected Viserys in spite of what he became in the end...why else would she - as his heir - take up his quest? Why would she feel so honored when Drogo told her that he would put Rhaego on the Iron Throne?

She was clearly okay with putting the crown on Rhaego's head. Up until Rhaego and Drogo died...

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

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2 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

How so?

They've already done the deed several times over. They've literally ran the whole gamut of sexual activities. They've already admitted that they are deeply in love with each other. What is marriage after all?

Avuncular marriages (marriages between aunts/uncles and their nephews/nieces) is not all that strange in Westeros. Granted, it's a bit more odd and unconventional than cousin-cousin marriages but no one seems to flinch at an aunt/nephew or uncle/niece marriage like they do marriages or sexual relationships between siblings and parents/children.

Plus, a marriage between them is the only way that the northerners would be satisfied enough to pay obeisance to both Daenerys and the Starks. 

I think it would have satisfied the North if a newly legitimized Jon Stark married Daenerys. Unless Jon only tells Daenerys and does the wedding to keep the alliance together. But Jon is not Ned Stark he cant keep a secret.  

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One of them has to die and I think dany will be the one that dies at the end. Jon doesn't want to take the throne anyway he should've made it clear to her 

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Just now, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I think it would have satisfied the North if a newly legitimized Jon Stark married Daenerys. Unless Jon only tells Daenerys and does the wedding to keep the alliance together. But Jon is not Ned Stark he cant keep a secret.  

I agree.

In the books, the last will and testament of Robb Stark will likely end up legitimizing Jon as a Stark anyways. The show had no such will so Jon became a bastard king. The northern lords offered to do so but Jon refused out of respect for Sansa...which is okay but...

The North will still see Jon as a child of the North. He is still a Stark by way of his mother Lyanna whom they loved, he was raised in the North (everyone already knows that Jon was born in the south) and he is Ned Stark's nephew. Anyone intimately associated with Ned Stark gets an automatic boost in popularity.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, QueenAnne said:

One of them has to die and I think dany will be the one that dies at the end. Jon doesn't want to take the throne anyway he should've made it clear to her 

I think both of them will die.

And, for the record, Daenerys and Jon both will be seen as gods by the people who follow or even oppose them. Daenerys might come to believe it in a sense and Jon will likely not care...but yeah, gods they will be. This was very briefly alluded in season 6.

Jon is practically GRRM's version of Jesus Christ (if only He was born in winter and was the warrior king the Jews thought he'd be) and Daenerys is an amalgamation between a bunch of historical figures so legendary that they are near-mythical (i.e. Moses, Mary the Mother of Jesus, Alexander the Great, Dido, Erik the Red, Cleopatra, Genghis Khan, Boudicca, etc.)

Edited by Jabar of House Titan

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I think Jon will leverage his title for Northern Independence and Dany will still reject that offer. So now he takes the crown. She wouldn't have to do that but she thinks home=all 7 kingdoms. She conflated the red door with the red keep a lot in the books too.  

 

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20 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Clearly Daenerys WANTS to be a homebody and raise children and bake cookies.

I could imagine that, yes.

20 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Why was she so ready and willing to marry Hizdahr?

She had no intention at all to consummate this marriage. She said clearly, that Hizdahr will know his position. This was just a political move to quieten down the masses for some time.

21 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

She clearly loved and respected Viserys in spite of what he became in the end

No she didn't. She hated Viserys for quite a time. He sold her like a "brood mare" (quote of Daenerys) and she did not intervene to protect him from Khal Drogo.

22 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

why else would she - as his heir - take up his quest?

She was brainwashed as child to focus on conquering the Iron Throne. This is exactly like some modern children are brainwashed to believe in religion, no matter how absurd they seem.

23 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Why would she feel so honored when Drogo told her that he would put Rhaego on the Iron Throne?

She was glad that Drogo took this seriously and eventually made her aim to his aim, too.

Daenerys really loved Drogo and wanted to continue the Targaryen dynasty with him and their son.

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On 4/22/2019 at 6:05 PM, MinscS2 said:

Yeah I'm thinking so too.
Either one of them (or both) die in the next episode, or we'll see a Targ-wedding in episode 5.

As for the "someone taller", wasn't she talking about Jorah?

Jon and Dany dying in episode 3? LMAO.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Xemi said:

Jon and Dany dying in episode 3? LMAO.

I didn't say it's likely. ;)

I said [the drama will be resolved if] "either one of them (or both) die in the next episode or we'll see a Targ-wedding in episode 5."

Currently I'd say the odds are 1% death and 99% wedding. 

Edited by MinscS2

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

In the first episode you mean, LOL?  She wanted to go home in 1 episode, even though she doesn't know where 'home' is. From 2-6, she becomes comfortable as Khaleesi, and doesn't appear to have any problem with her brother's plan to go to Westeros. 

I quoted a video last page about this.
It's from S104, when she is a Khaleesi and thinks that her brother is an idiot that will never reclaim the 7 Kingdoms - and she still tells Jorah that she "pray's for home".

Do I think the show will make a callback to this? Probably not, but it's not impossible. 

Edited by MinscS2

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You know, it does seem to be the trend now a days in shows/movies, right? Team Peeta vs Team Gale. Team Edward vs Team Jacob. I wouldn't put it past them to do the same with Dany and Jon.

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I think there isn't going to be a fight between for the throne. I think that's just dramatic tension. There's no way Jon will suddenly want to be king all of a sudden, regardless of him being the 'true heir'. Regarding Daenerys, she thought she was the last living Targaryen for many years, and suddenly she learns she isn't. I think she will be eventually happy when she realizes she now has another relative, and is someone she loves too. I really don't think there's going to be two different factions for the throne or something like that; I think both Jon and Dany just had their entire lives turned upside down hence their reactions. It's more like an identity crisis rather than a sucession crisis (and besides, despite the fact Dany is still obsessed with the throne - for some goddamn reason - what really matters is surviving the dead and I guess also getting rid of Cersei. Dany has to come around to that, and I think the vision of the broken throne and moving away from it from season 2, is a clue).

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1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I agree.

In the books, the last will and testament of Robb Stark will likely end up legitimizing Jon as a Stark anyways. The show had no such will so Jon became a bastard king. The northern lords offered to do so but Jon refused out of respect for Sansa...which is okay but...

The North will still see Jon as a child of the North. He is still a Stark by way of his mother Lyanna whom they loved, he was raised in the North (everyone already knows that Jon was born in the south) and he is Ned Stark's nephew. Anyone intimately associated with Ned Stark gets an automatic boost in popularity.

I wanted to see him legitimized as a Stark. I think the scene with Dany and Jon was interesting because he has everything he wanted now he’s not a bastard, he knows who his mother is, he has a bonus dad but now it’s complicated because of Dany.  

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1- No objective person would be on Danys side. Not the way she is acting in S8. She is showing shades of her father.

2- Jon will NEVER take the Throne as that wouldn't be in line with his arc. He wouldn't even take it if they asked him to. Yes he did before but that was to fight the great war. If they make it till the end, Jon will NOT marry Dany or whatever, he couldn't even look her in the face.

3- All of this is a moot point anyway as I think no one is going to sit on the Throne.

Man Dany has become such a disappointment. Acting like a spoiled little rich girl. She should learn a thing or two on how to lead from Sansa, who has shown she is a real leader. Even after Jon told Dany they're family, the first thing on her mind was the damn Throne. So much so she felt threatened and saw Jon as an enemy. She reminds me so much of Cersei and her father this season. She still has a good heart but she has a dark side as well and if not for her advisors she would be totally like her father. Her good trait is she isn't stubborn is open to good advice. But it's like she needs to on a leash at all times otherwise she keeps leaning to the dark side over and over again. She would NOT make a good ruler.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

I wanted to see him legitimized as a Stark. I think the scene with Dany and Jon was interesting because he has everything he wanted now he’s not a bastard, he knows who his mother is, he has a bonus dad but now it’s complicated because of Dany.  

lol @ bonus dad

It would make sense to kill off all Targaryens because of their incest relationships, Dany and Jon. Wasn't there a theory that Cersei and Jaime would be Targaryens as well? It would make sense that Cersei is a child of Mad King.

I don't think there's such moral to the story anyhow.

Edited by Deminelle

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2 hours ago, Gianna Dorenberg said:

1- No objective person would be on Danys side. Not the way she is acting in S8. She is showing shades of her father.

2- Jon will NEVER take the Throne as that wouldn't be in line with his arc. He wouldn't even take it if they asked him to. Yes he did before but that was to fight the great war. If they make it till the end, Jon will NOT marry Dany or whatever, he couldn't even look her in the face.

3- All of this is a moot point anyway as I think no one is going to sit on the Throne.

Man Dany has become such a disappointment. Acting like a spoiled little rich girl. She should learn a thing or two on how to lead from Sansa, who has shown she is a real leader. Even after Jon told Dany they're family, the first thing on her mind was the damn Throne. So much so she felt threatened and saw Jon as an enemy. She reminds me so much of Cersei and her father this season. She still has a good heart but she has a dark side as well and if not for her advisors she would be totally like her father. Her good trait is she isn't stubborn is open to good advice. But it's like she needs to on a leash at all times otherwise she keeps leaning to the dark side over and over again. She would NOT make a good ruler.

I honestly have no idea what show people are watching. Honestly.  She is showing no signs at all of being her father  this season.

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5 hours ago, Kajjo said:

I could imagine that, yes.

She had no intention at all to consummate this marriage. She said clearly, that Hizdahr will know his position. This was just a political move to quieten down the masses for some time.

No she didn't. She hated Viserys for quite a time. He sold her like a "brood mare" (quote of Daenerys) and she did not intervene to protect him from Khal Drogo.

She was brainwashed as child to focus on conquering the Iron Throne. This is exactly like some modern children are brainwashed to believe in religion, no matter how absurd they seem.

She was glad that Drogo took this seriously and eventually made her aim to his aim, too.

Daenerys really loved Drogo and wanted to continue the Targaryen dynasty with him and their son.

She would have to consummate the marriage at some point. How long before a child is expected? Even if Daenerys believes/thinks that she is barren, she will still need to make Hizdahr feel that "one more go" will do it.

Still...she married Hizdahr because she wanted to make a home in Meereen no matter how temporary. If she didn't care about Meereen or Slaver's Bay or Hizdahr, she would not have even bothered with any of them.

Why would Daenerys name one of her precious beloved dragons after someone she hated and had no respect for? Viserys was cruel and weak but he was not always like that; Daenerys knows and remembers that. He still took care of her and looked after her for her entire life. His death was his own fault. He broke an ancient, sacred law was nothing that She could not have intervened if she even wanted to and it would have been INCREDIBLY stupid for her to intervene on his behalf anyways.

While I wouldn't say that Daenerys was brainwashed by Viserys, she has spent her entire life living as his heir. With him gone, she is the last Targaryen. To be the last of anything entails a sense of responsibility and duty to not only perform but to perform well. Daenerys developed a new deeper respect and understanding of Viserys based on her adventures in Clash and Storm because her personal experience with the frustration he had.

1 hour ago, El Guapo said:

I honestly have no idea what show people are watching. Honestly.  She is showing no signs at all of being her father  this season.

I really don't think people actually know what kind of person and king Aerys II.

Aerys would not bathe nor would he cut his nails or his hair. He would burn people alive in his court (or if you were luckily, you were simply banished) on a REGULAR basis. Part of the reason he would do it is that watching, smelling and hearing people be burned and reduced to a charred pile of ash and bones was sexually arousing. He would get so aroused that he would go to Maegor's Holdfast and brutalize his sister and queen....right after cooking people in open court. Jaime remembers that the last he saw Rhaella she had bite marks and scratches over her body.

Aerys also could not make up his mind and stick to a decision. It was all in one ear and out the other.

Aerys was a basket case and a nightmare on his best days.

Daenerys is nothing like her father. She's actually a lot more like Aegon the Conqueror or Jaehaerys the Conciliator. 

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2 hours ago, El Guapo said:

I honestly have no idea what show people are watching. Honestly.  She is showing no signs at all of being her father  this season.

My way or the highway. She would make an awful ruler. Her leadership consists of ''you either bow to me or I will burn you''. That's shades of a dictator.

Jon tells her he is family, and the only thing she can think of is him being a threat to her throne. If it wasn't for his advisors and her being easily influenced by others, she'd be a villain. Maybe she still will be, though I don't think the show will go that far. They'll probably tie it all up by Dany giving up on the Throne. I mean the death are knocking at their door, a very slim chance of survival and in the face of that the throne is her obsession. Her father was a dictator. I'm not saying Dany is exactly like her father, duh. But she is showing shades of being a dictator. And like I said, without the compassion and empathy of her advisors, she would be a full on dictator. Wants to break the wheel but thinks the answer to that is only and only her being the leader of everyone. She is a hypocrite but that's another matter.  

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Posted (edited)

I think Daenerys will slowly lose all her councilors in some form or another and they are the only thing keeping her in check. There were already hints of her reliance on them to do what's right and showing her most trusted are already looking to go elsewhere (ie conversation between Grey Worm and Missandei). It also showed Daenerys really doesn't  really understand love, loyalty, and forgiveness. She looked bewildered when Sansa broke down and hugged Theon. She had no idea why Jorah forgave Tyrion. She had absolutely no idea why Sansa voted in favor of Jaime.

Edited by longest night

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