The Crypt

[maiden of tarth]

8 hours ago, tallTale said:

I believe the crypt will be used as an escape for when the dead breach the walls. Basically the same exit Bran and Rickon used during the Theon occupation.

In the books, I’m sure Osha says that there is a tunnel from the crypts to the wall/beyond the wall. Or it might have been Ygritte. It was one of them, I’m sure. 

[lakin1013]

Do we have any knowledge of Winterfell have dragonfire?  Arya asks if it can kill the NK, and Bran says he doesn't know, nobody has tried it.  Do they mean literal dragonfire a la Dany and Jon, or do they mean wildfire?

[Red Dragon10]

25 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Do we have any knowledge of Winterfell have dragonfire?  Arya asks if it can kill the NK, and Bran says he doesn't know, nobody has tried it.  Do they mean literal dragonfire a la Dany and Jon, or do they mean wildfire?

They mean literal dragonfire.  They were talking about the dragons staying close to Bran and 'pursuing the NK' once he is out in the open, and therefore being unable to help with the main battle. 

[Kristoff]

1 hour ago, maiden of tarth said:

In the books, I’m sure Osha says that there is a tunnel from the crypts to the wall/beyond the wall. Or it might have been Ygritte. It was one of them, I’m sure. 

Isn't Winterfell hundreds of miles from the wall? We're talking dwarf levels of catacombs if that's the case, would make Bran the builder a very busy man indeed. But if one if the bullet points GRRM gave D&D is wights in the Crypts, then maybe the book explanation will have to do with the tunnels and the TV show explanation will be exploding sarcophagus' and spooky skeletons.

 

 

[briantw]

6 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

The huge, in-yer-face clue is in the opening credits. There's a lot of emphasis on the crypts, which never featured before. I expect most of the women and children to get zombified next week, and I do think we'll see undead Stark ancestors.

Crypts were also a huge part of the marketing for the season.  Something is going to happen with them.

[dbunting]

I have had one narrowly focused thought (which is sometimes bad) since I saw Arya running terrified through Winterfell in the season previews. Catelyn reanimated and coming for her. It's the only thing I can think of that would scare her that much.

When Dany says to Jon that the dead are already here, I think it's her realizing that the crypts are full of the dead. She sent two of her top advisers down there in Tyrion and Varys, probably Missande as well.

[dbunting]

2 minutes ago, briantw said:

Crypts were also a huge part of the marketing for the season.  Something is going to happen with them.

The show has a history of repeating itself. Grey Worm and the gang enter a city through the sewers I think, and open the gates.  Grey Worm and the gang enter Casterly Rock through hidden sewer/tunnels and open the gates.  Now the NK can raise the dead Starks and have them open the gates.

[Kristoff]

2 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I have had one narrowly focused thought (which is sometimes bad) since I saw Arya running terrified through Winterfell in the season previews. Catelyn reanimated and coming for her. It's the only thing I can think of that would scare her that much.

When Dany says to Jon that the dead are already here, I think it's her realizing that the crypts are full of the dead. She sent two of her top advisers down there in Tyrion and Varys, probably Missande as well.

That would be a made for TV movie level oversight. I hope that's not the case, at least without some explanation to the audience about why they think this wouldn't be possible. Personally I don't see how the dead could even push their way out of a sarcophagus and from what we've seen all of the bodies are in one.

[dbunting]

2 minutes ago, Kristoff said:

That would be a made for TV movie level oversight. I hope that's not the case, at least without some explanation to the audience about why they think this wouldn't be possible. Personally I don't see how the dead could even push their way out of a sarcophagus and from what we've seen all of the bodies are in one.

Where do you get this information from?

Each Stark King/Lord and Lyanna have their own and a statue with a sword on it's lap.

Also, in the scene where Bran makes it to the cave of the 3ER the dead that rise out of the ground outside of it are basically all bones. They do plenty of damage in that fight. Even at Hardhomme plenty of the NK army is not much more than bones and they literally bust through a reinforced wooden gate.

[dbunting]

38 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I have had one narrowly focused thought (which is sometimes bad) since I saw Arya running terrified through Winterfell in the season previews. Catelyn reanimated and coming for her. It's the only thing I can think of that would scare her that much.

When Dany says to Jon that the dead are already here, I think it's her realizing that the crypts are full of the dead. She sent two of her top advisers down there in Tyrion and Varys, probably Missande as well.

Actually, I forgot one other possibility. Rickon. He is freshly killed and would be very recognizable to Arya. I do not remember if they buried him in the crypts or not.

 

One other out in left field thought. Any chance Lyanna and Rheagar were buried together? Ned is the one who brought her back. Ned knows where he died, any chance he went to get him?  Would sure lead credibility to Jon/Aegon that Dany couldn't deny.    I say less than .0000000000001% but who knows.

[Raksha 2014]

48 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I have had one narrowly focused thought (which is sometimes bad) since I saw Arya running terrified through Winterfell in the season previews. Catelyn reanimated and coming for her. It's the only thing I can think of that would scare her that much.

When Dany says to Jon that the dead are already here, I think it's her realizing that the crypts are full of the dead. She sent two of her top advisers down there in Tyrion and Varys, probably Missande as well.

If we're going to see zombie-Ned and zombie-Cat and various zombie-Starks chasing Arya through the crypts and/or killing Gilly and baby Sam, I swear I'll stop watching and just wait for the tail end of the episode or the beginning of the next one.  I have never been fond of zombie wars or zombies at all; and would have been fine with the Dead being left out of the GOT novels altogether.

 

[Red Dragon10]

1 minute ago, Raksha 2014 said:

If we're going to see zombie-Ned and zombie-Cat and various zombie-Starks chasing Arya through the crypts and/or killing Gilly and baby Sam, I swear I'll stop watching and just wait for the tail end of the episode or the beginning of the next one.  I have never been fond of zombie wars or zombies at all; and would have been fine with the Dead being left out of the GOT novels altogether.

 

No matter what, there won't be zombie-Ned.  He is headless and it looks like his bones (if they are all there) are likely boiled and disassembled, by the size of the box they were in. 

I'm kind of confused about why the possibility that the dead in the crypts could be raised, wouldn't at least occur to everyone thinking that the crypts will be so safe.  

[dbunting]

Just now, Raksha 2014 said:

If we're going to see zombie-Ned and zombie-Cat and various zombie-Starks chasing Arya through the crypts and/or killing Gilly and baby Sam, I swear I'll stop watching and just wait for the tail end of the episode or the beginning of the next one.  I have never been fond of zombie wars or zombies at all; and would have been fine with the Dead being left out of the GOT novels altogether.

 

You may as well skip the next episode then because that's pretty much what we are getting, ice zombies called wights.  You could also see wight Hodor, Jojen Reed, Summer.... all are possible, not probable but possible.

[SansaJonRule]

I don't believe that Cat or Robb are in the crypt as I doubt the Freys & Boltons would care enough to send their adversaries to their family resting place. Rickon is in the crypt, but how would Arya recognize him? He's been down there for a couple of years so he would have decomposed beyond recognition.

In the books it is suggested there are dragon eggs in the crypt, set near the hot springs, but that is not in the show.

I certainly agree that there is something important about the crypts, but reanimated Starks seems so predictable.

[Adam Targaryen]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:04 PM, Vandal said:

In the only clearly described burial cases (that I can recall both in the books and on TV) it says that only bones are buried there. Unrecognizable hostile skeletons are not that interesting... Having them suddenly be more than bones and therefore recognizable would be close to a continuity error and so somewhat annoying. Then again if they are handled LoTR style as friendly ghosts, I am not quite sure where would that fit into the plot.

I really really think that "bones" are just an old-fashioned way of saying "corpse" or "dead body" as a euphemism or something similar. Maybe the word "corpse" wasn't used that much in Medieval times and people just said "bones" when talking about dead people, since that was the essence of the corpse? I know that "corpse" and "dead body" are used all the time in both the books and show, but I still feel like GRRM's choice to have the word bones as in for example "Ned's bones" is a delibare stylistic choice, to make it sound archaic, and not a literal meaning of "just his bones and not his flesh or skin".

 

Either way, the flesh rots and disappears very quickly no matter how they are buried, so whatever the case all the dead Starks should be skeletons - but that is a shame since as you say, it means that we won't see their faces and understand who they are.

Although I think (and am hoping in a weird way) that maybe, just maybe, Ned and Catelyn will rise, with Catelyn still having her face intact and Ned without his head but still recognisable from his body and clothing. It wouldn't make sense but the show doesn't always make sense and it would be an extremely cool moment. Also, other than Lyanna, there are almost no other Stark ancestors who would mean anything to the audience if they became zombies because the current Starks don't have a relationship to for example Theon the hungry wolf...

[Red Dragon10]

7 minutes ago, Adam Targaryen said:

Although I think (and am hoping in a weird way) that maybe, just maybe, Ned and Catelyn will rise, with Catelyn still having her face intact and Ned without his head but still recognisable from his body and clothing. It wouldn't make sense but the show doesn't always make sense and it would be an extremely cool moment. 

I highly doubt Catelyn is in the crypt at all.  She was murdered at the Red Wedding and her body is probably at the Twins somewhere, along with Robb's.  Ned's body - in the show at least - is definitely just bones.  His body was brought to Catelyn in a smallish box, which could only mean his body is disassembled..bones probably boiled and no clothing at all.

I think the only Stark that would be recognizable would be Rickon.  Therefore, I think its unlikely that the dead will rise because I don't think there would be a big impact.  But who knows! 

[King Jon Snow Stark]

3 hours ago, Red Dragon10 said:

I highly doubt Catelyn is in the crypt at all.  She was murdered at the Red Wedding and her body is probably at the Twins somewhere, along with Robb's.  Ned's body - in the show at least - is definitely just bones.  His body was brought to Catelyn in a smallish box, which could only mean his body is disassembled..bones probably boiled and no clothing at all.

I think the only Stark that would be recognizable would be Rickon.  Therefore, I think its unlikely that the dead will rise because I don't think there would be a big impact.  But who knows! 

Rickon was probably trampled to mesh. 

[Red Dragon10]

11 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Rickon was probably trampled to mesh. 

Yeah, good point.  So now there are no recognizable Stark's.  I don't think they'll rise.