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shawnpmcd

Where are we on whether Bran can see the future?

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Posted (edited)

I know it's a topic that has been discussed before, but based on everything we know through Ep 2, can Bran see the future?  I ask because of his reply to whether Dragon Fire can hurt the Night King.

Edited by shawnpmcd
Clarification.

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Oh let's throw in a little Tolkien and classic Planet of the Apes into the works.

The Mirror of Galadriel shows what was, what is and what might be, but the Lady warns the future is the hardest to forsee. Some events will not come to pass unless a person actually strays from a path they are on. Imagine if Frodo seeing dark happenings ahead thinks he can avoid them by fleeing back to the Shire. Of course that would be a disaster as Sauron would send all his forces to crush the hobbits and take the Ring back. So staying the course to Mordor was the correct choice of action.

Planet of the Apes, 70s, time is an infinite highway going forward and you can exit, re enter, change lanes whenever you like. Each time you do you get that future, the one you are on, until you change course, then you get that future. If you sat home all day, that timeline unfolds, if you leave to go shopping, that timeline unfolds. "It's a blind choice but you can change lanes."

So Bran may have a hard time tracking the future because he's tracking people who are continually making choices, altering courses, knowing or not knowing what path they are on. He lives in the present, can certainly time travel backwards, but I find his handle on the future more tentative, how could he know whether Tyrion is going to open the door if Tyrion hasn't even made up his mind yet? But it's sure a long strange interesting trip into the time space continuum.....onto ep 3.

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From the books and the way the wierwoods are presented, I would say no, but we've barely scratched the surface there.

Jojen could see the future as a green seer, so Bran might have that ability too. For the most part, the show hasn't portrayed Bran as seeing the future much (he could have seen Jaime coming through the ravens rather than a vision), but I keep coming back to a specific vision he had at the tree. He saw the wildfire rushing through Kings Landing when Cersei torched the Sept. If we take into account the post above, the future is not written yet, making it difficult to see. Perhaps so many roads led to Cersei using wildfire that it was a near certainty - other things are probably not as clear. 

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The way it was descibed in this episode was that the Three-Eyed Raven is like a memory of mankind, so mostly what he can see is the past.

As Bran (and Jojen and others) the Greenseer (before he bacame the Three-Eyed Raven) he could glimpse the future but it was those puzzle like prophesy type visions, so the sea flooding into Winterfell was actually the Ironborn capturing it.
So as the Three-Eyed Raven he can see the past but not the future but as a Greenseer he can see glimpses of the future. Does Bran still retain his Greenseer abilities now that he is no longer Branden Stark?

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6 hours ago, shawnpmcd said:

can Bran see the future?  I ask because of his reply to whether Dragon Fire can hurt the Night King.

I am still adamant that he cannot greensee the future. It simply makes no sense otherwise. This time he very clearly stated that "I don't know ... it never happened" so he CANNOT.

We should probably better differentiate between:

Warging... into another being, mostly wolves or ravens. Seeing the present from the perspective of a potentially far-away animal.

Greensight ... watching past scenes.

Visions ... short flashes of future scene.

Bran might have had some visions while greenseeing, like dragon over King's Landing. But generally Bran only greensees the past.

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22 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I am still adamant that he cannot greensee the future. It simply makes no sense otherwise. This time he very clearly stated that "I don't know ... it never happened" so he CANNOT.

We should probably better differentiate between:

Warging... into another being, mostly wolves or ravens. Seeing the present from the perspective of a potentially far-away animal.

Greensight ... watching past scenes.

Visions ... short flashes of future scene.

Bran might have had some visions while greenseeing, like dragon over King's Landing. But generally Bran only greensees the past.

When he sees the dragon flying over Kings Landing I had assumed that was a vision of the past.

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Just now, Bittersweet Distractor said:

When he sees the dragon flying over Kings Landing I had assumed that was a vision of the past.

Oh well, yes, maybe. I like that idea, because it would make the "only past scenes" even more valid.

I am adamant of Bran so far only greenseeing the past.

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Oh well, yes, maybe. I like that idea, because it would make the "only past scenes" even more valid.

I am adamant of Bran so far only greenseeing the past.

I might be wrong but that’s just the vibe I’ve always got from that scene, that it was a vision of Kings Landing pre dance and Aegon III.

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Based on what he said in S08E02, I think he can't. He literally said that he is the memory of humankind (world?). So as I understand it, he sees only the past, not the future.

But it is true that his dialogue with Jaime implied a bit that he knows that Jaime has an important role in the upcoming battle. But maybe I'm just reading way too much into his lines.

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I think Bran definitely can, in some form, see the future. That's what green dreams are: prophetic dreams. In his burst of visions in season 6 he sees the wildfire explosion in King's Landing 4 episodes before it even happens so clearly he has some knowledge of future events. They might not be precise but I feel like he has some idea of what will happen and knows what has to occur in order to achieve the best possible outcome.

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6 minutes ago, Ashbolt said:

I think Bran definitely can, in some form, see the future.

As suggested above, we should distinguish between greenseeing and visions.

Bran can tap into past scene. But he obviously cannot do this willingly into the future. He says so. He does not know.

I agree there have been some future scenes, but more like flashes of vision.

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Still a good question.  I lean that he cannot see the future but realize that there is some limited precedent in the greenseeing visions.  

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25 minutes ago, Prince Jon said:

Still a good question.  I lean that he cannot see the future but realize that there is some limited precedent in the greenseeing visions.  

Agreed. That is my state of knowledge and estimation as well. 

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7 hours ago, Tyrion's Double Axe said:

Oh let's throw in a little Tolkien and classic Planet of the Apes into the works.

The Mirror of Galadriel shows what was, what is and what might be, but the Lady warns the future is the hardest to forsee. Some events will not come to pass unless a person actually strays from a path they are on. Imagine if Frodo seeing dark happenings ahead thinks he can avoid them by fleeing back to the Shire. Of course that would be a disaster as Sauron would send all his forces to crush the hobbits and take the Ring back. So staying the course to Mordor was the correct choice of action.

Planet of the Apes, 70s, time is an infinite highway going forward and you can exit, re enter, change lanes whenever you like. Each time you do you get that future, the one you are on, until you change course, then you get that future. If you sat home all day, that timeline unfolds, if you leave to go shopping, that timeline unfolds. "It's a blind choice but you can change lanes."

So Bran may have a hard time tracking the future because he's tracking people who are continually making choices, altering courses, knowing or not knowing what path they are on. He lives in the present, can certainly time travel backwards, but I find his handle on the future more tentative, how could he know whether Tyrion is going to open the door if Tyrion hasn't even made up his mind yet? But it's sure a long strange interesting trip into the time space continuum.....onto ep 3.

14,000,605

 

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In the books, there is a clear distinction between what Bran can do and, let's say, what Jojen can do; Jojen has symbolic, prophetic dreams of what is going to happen but Bran can't; Bran can interact with other people's dreams; Jojen can't. The show muddied the waters a little. Plus, the show doesn't even really have "greenseers" and "green dreamers" - there's the Three-Eyed-Raven and then other people have various "visions" of things that are happening and they are about to encounter. So, already I am weary of trying to adopt book logic onto the show because the concepts are a little different.

A lot of Jojen's visions in both the book and show are in the league of "hindsight is 20-20" anyway so it's more like he's picking up on people's intentions or current actions and then receiving them in a coded dream (books) or vision (show). The closest thing he ever gets to an outright prediction of what will happen is his own death.

In the show we can probably say that Bran has seen visions of the future given that he has seen the hollowed-out throne room covered in snow buried amongst flashes of the past and present. He also saw the wildfire before Cersei lit the fuse. That suggests to me that he can potentially see the future... but only in flashes and not off his own back. In comparison, he can control going back to the past to have a mooch around because "the ink is dry". In comparison, the future is just plans and intentions that may or may not happen.

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