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Arya Losin' It


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16 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I believe you over-interpret drastically in your whole analysis.

Arya very clearly states: "I am Arya Stark of Winterfell and I will go home." She was never no-one. She was always true to herself. With empathy, with emotions. She went through a lot of hardship, though. She showed empathy explaining to Lady Crane the feelings and motivation of Cersei and by savin her, she showed emotion like hate and revenge when killing Meryn Trant.

Oh I agree she always kept her empathy. I never ever saw her as a psychopath (I've been in a relation with one for 2 years, and Arya certainly isn't one). And yes she stated I am Arya Stark of Winterfell, but there's a difference between stating it and how she behaved. She called herself Arya Stark, but that meant the Arya the assassin whose sole focus is on taking the people from her list, which she wasn't allowed to do in Braavos. Instead she was to kill "innocents" in the show (which is more black & white than in the books)

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She still has her sword "Needle" to take back a bit of her former self. And yes, she has her list, her revenge and hate. She cares very much still about all the family she has lost. When heading towards King's Landing she assumes no one is left. Then Hot Pie tells her about Winterfell and she immediately has the right priorities.

No disagreement from me there. But you can't deny she mimicked the Hound in that scene, right?

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I wouldn't see her as "daughter" and she is not really like the Hound. But yes, there are similarities, like being on their own, like hate being a good motive to go on. But the talk with Hot Pie is immediately igniting the longing for her family. She does not hesitate, does not weigh options, she is 100% for heading home. 

You never caught on her language, her cynical short answers, and how she ate the pie and chucked down the bear, wiped her hand across her mouth. That was an Arya version of the Hound.

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I don't like all this "Arya is not Arya". Arya is always Arya, with different priorities, different hardships. People do not change all the time drastically, they changed over time, they develop. So did Arya. 

You're miscasting or misreading my argument, only seeing it as "Oh, so you're saying she isn't Arya then?" Of course she's Arya, but throughout her journey she also had alias personnas, in order to survive. My point is that she regresses through each of those alias personnas until she hit the earliest personna, the deepest core of what it means to be Arya, only to discover she can't go back to the child Arya on the day she had to flee the Red Keep, but discovers an adult version with emotional and physical scars and several ghosts who'll never turn up at WF again. So, no it's not just about priorities. Gendry actually amplifies this by calling her Lady Stark first, then m'lady, but just as she's about to kiss him he calls her just Arya. That's when she makes physical contact and sheds all.

 

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

Instead she was to kill "innocents" in the show

Who do you mean?!

1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

But you can't deny she mimicked the Hound in that scene, right?

A little bit, yet. She's focused on hate, revenge and killing list. That makes her similar in behaviour

2 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

You never caught on her language, her cynical short answers, and how she ate the pie and chucked down the bear, wiped her hand across her mouth. That was an Arya version of the Hound.

Yes, I see where you are coming from. It's a bit of Sandor there.

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I haven't got a problem with any of it and couldn't really understand some of the reaction afterwards, especially given the incest and all the other debauchery throughout the series. Sexually curious teenager gets horny shocker!

Besides, it was quite clear they always liked each other from when they first met, and it was pretty obvious after Arya flirted and made eyes at him in episode one that something was going to happen, and it did. End of story as far as I'm concerned.

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3 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

For many people I know, sex is just sex... I think that is sad.  Well, at least I humored you! :P

Really? The world deteriorates. Sex ist the most intimate thing you can share and most people feel that sex makes you much closer.

 

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Just now, State Trooper said:

it was pretty obvious after Arya flirted and made eyes at him in episode one that something was going to happen, and it did, end of story as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, same for me. It was a logical development, clearly indicated in E1 and early hinted at in S2-4.

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1 minute ago, Kajjo said:

Really? The world deteriorates. Sex ist the most intimate thing you can share and most people feel that sex makes you much closer.

 

I'd tend to agree with you there.  Yet, I know these people.  It is like sex is a fun use of their time, and they treat their bodies as toys.  Sad way of things, and dangerous if I may add.

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Just now, Kajjo said:

Who do you mean?!

I meant that in the show the HoBaW wanted her to kill "innocent" people, such as the insurance guy and Lady Crane. (I actually detested the portrayal of the HoBaW in the show. I've written an essay once on book-HoBaW's subtleties.)

Just now, Kajjo said:

A little bit, yet. She's focused on hate, revenge and killing list. That makes her similar in behaviour

Yes, I see where you are coming from. It's a bit of Sandor there.

And hence why I say "the Hound's daughter" rather than "Ned Stark's daughter".

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1 minute ago, sweetsunray said:

I meant that in the show the HoBaW wanted her to kill "innocent" people, such as the insurance guy and Lady Crane.

Yes, but Arya rejected to do so. She kept humanity and empathy. So I probably don't get the point of your statement.

2 minutes ago, LadyNoOne said:

It is like sex is a fun use of their time, and they treat their bodies as toys.  Sad way of things, and dangerous if I may add.

Agreed. Sex shouldn't be degraded to be a simple means of spending your spare time. 

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3 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, but Arya rejected to do so. She kept humanity and empathy. So I probably don't get the point of your statement.

My point was that yes, Arya has empathy and doesn't kill innocents, though show-HoBaW wanted her to kill innocents. (And on the side I also imply that Book-Arya does kill the insurance guy, but kindly man makes quite clear to Arya that he put people onto the streets with fraud, and actually rewards her for her killing her private killing of the NW guy, since her blind girl training actually is the next step in her training, rather than a punishment)

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17 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Who do you mean?!

A little bit, yet. She's focused on hate, revenge and killing list. That makes her similar in behaviour

Yes, I see where you are coming from. It's a bit of Sandor there.

I was surprised a bit at the way she and the Hound interacted back at Winterfell since Arya had taken him off her list...  Yes, I know she stole from him and "left him to die".  Still she knew he was a big guy and tough to kill.  She also knew it wouldn't be hard for him, given his lack of morality, to get more silver elsewhere.

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Just now, LadyNoOne said:

I was surprised a bit at the way she and the Hound interacted back at Winterfell since Arya had taken him off her list

Yes, I was a bit surprised, too, about the reunion in E1. A little bit too cold. The scene in E2 made up for this, though, I feel.

1 minute ago, LadyNoOne said:

Yes, I know she stole from him and "left him to die".

That was fine for me back then. Taking the silver was sensible, because she expected him to die anyway. She just mentioned it now to stab at him emotionally. The reunion was a bit too cold.

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5 hours ago, LadyNoOne said:

I was surprised a bit at the way she and the Hound interacted back at Winterfell since Arya had taken him off her list...  Yes, I know she stole from him and "left him to die".  Still she knew he was a big guy and tough to kill.  She also knew it wouldn't be hard for him, given his lack of morality, to get more silver elsewhere.

1 - she stood up for Gendry as he once stood up for her when Hot Pie and Lommy bullied her at the end of s1

2 - she was portraying Ned Stark's icyness (like Jon does), her real father's daughter, instead of portraying Hound as she did to Hot Pie

3 - the Hound was complimenting her in his own weird way.

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16 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

1 - she stood up for Gendry as he once stood up for her when Hot Pie and Lommy bullied her at the end of s1

2 - she was portraying Ned Stark's icyness (like Jon does), her real father's daughter, instead of portraying Hound as she did to Hot Pie

3 - the Hound was complimenting her in his own weird way.

I agree on all three.

Particularly on 1 ... all the Gendry/Arya scenes are mirroring their early scenes. Arya pushing Gendry to the ground, later onto the bed; Arya watching muscular Gendry working; Arya revealing her parentage, later Gendry revealing his; the "my lady" teasing and this case: he protecting her, she protecting him. It fits all extremely well. They invested a lot of thought and good writing into these scenes.

to 2: Ned Stark was a man of few words and Arya is, too, now that she is grown-up.

to 3: Yeah, somehow even that. I liked the scene in E2 which was a bit more positive.

 

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30 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I agree on all three.

Particularly on 1 ... all the Gendry/Arya scenes are mirroring their early scenes. Arya pushing Gendry to the ground, later onto the bed; Arya watching muscular Gendry working; Arya revealing her parentage, later Gendry revealing his; the "my lady" teasing and this case: he protecting her, she protecting him. It fits all extremely well. They invested a lot of thought and good writing into these scenes.

to 2: Ned Stark was a man of few words and Arya is, too, now that she is grown-up.

to 3: Yeah, somehow even that. I liked the scene in E2 which was a bit more positive.

 

It's not exactly how we expect normal people who haven't lived through so much trauma to respond to one another. We sort of know how Arya feels about the Hound, because she mimicked him at the Crossroads Inn with Hot Pie and because she didn't want to go with Brienne and took him of her list. And we know from last season when Brienne tells him that people better should not stand between her and what she wants (the Hound was actually standing in between Gendry and her for a moment) and how he softly answers her, "Won't be me standing in her way," how the Hound feels about Arya. And so it's normal for us to expect a much warmer reunion between them. But they are severely traumatised, mellowing with time and years somewhat. So, they revert to the communication pattern they already established, with a new twist that Arya has indeed become a woman of little words and icy commanding stares.

And agreed. Their scene in E2 was a relaxed one, fellow combat comrades... Arya showing she's not really cold inside or ungrateful for what he did for her, by just sitting with him, and he admitting that he fought for her once. Any more show of affection would just be wrong between those two.

 

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Arya needs to understand everything. She is cold when she has to be but watch the beginning of her Braavosi training, she doesn't care what's happening she just NEEDS to know.  How many times ive been called rude or a b**** because of asking questions. She knows she can trust Gendry- that's what's with the questions making sure theres no surprises choosing him. She's been surrounded by Sansa, who as a child only wants to marry and produce babies, to her road with men where she sees and hears of and is threatened by guys only caring about sex. In KL she knows about the brothels, she knows in Braavos first hand...

Sex is important. 

Maybe her thoughts in the after are connecting her to Gendry- or they're still. so. curious. Shes trying to understand something she thought she'd always 'have time for later' but now she thinks she might not. She just needs to know what all the fuss is about. 

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4 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

It's not exactly how we expect normal people who haven't lived through so much trauma to respond to one another. We sort of know how Arya feels about the Hound, because she mimicked him at the Crossroads Inn with Hot Pie and because she didn't want to go with Brienne and took him of her list. And we know from last season when Brienne tells him that people better should not stand between her and what she wants (the Hound was actually standing in between Gendry and her for a moment) and how he softly answers her, "Won't be me standing in her way," how the Hound feels about Arya. And so it's normal for us to expect a much warmer reunion between them. But they are severely traumatised, mellowing with time and years somewhat. So, they revert to the communication pattern they already established, with a new twist that Arya has indeed become a woman of little words and icy commanding stares.

And agreed. Their scene in E2 was a relaxed one, fellow combat comrades... Arya showing she's not really cold inside or ungrateful for what he did for her, by just sitting with him, and he admitting that he fought for her once. Any more show of affection would just be wrong between those two.

 

I get what you are saying, but I still didn't like it.  It was too cold.  Sure, they're not going to hug it out, but a few more minutes of conversation, of all the people that she might at least give some sign about her murderous history, the Hound would be that person who she could give a hint to.  It was actually dumb that they had her last year brag to Sansa, but talking to the Hound, that would make sense.  Maybe she understands him better now that she herself is a killer.  Maybe she drops the House Frey stuff.  Something. 

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Being a pragmatist, I had no issues with this scene.  Of course, she picked Gendry. There are not that many available guys in her age group.  She asked about his sex history because if she was going to have sex, she wanted to do it with somebody who knew how, had some experience.  Her insomnia is probably due to going to war and next day, or very soon.  It all made sense to me. And I simply do not understand people calling her a psycho killer, serial murderer, or robotic, or worrying if she had access to moon tea.  We are down to 4 eps.  I do not think a pregnancy is on the menu.

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