Arya Losin' It

[Gendelsdottir]

17 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Kinda pointless to film and show a sex-scene shot in the dark though.

Suspension of disbelief. 

I correct myself - Jon/Dany #boatseks was tastefully underlit and more about their facial expressions than anything else.

Suspension of disbelief? I do take the show well salted, but there's still the occasional moment that snaps me right out of the narrative. Speaking of cringey moments, that mummer who was waving his junk in Lady Crane's face? Right up there.

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

 

Someone actually asked GRRM if "Arya will be flowering"?

Jesus...
Cringe-level overload...

She was a very young lady trying to ask a very old male about menstruation. A little awkward so she kept with familiar vernacular. 

Chill. 

[MinscS2]

Just now, The Fattest Leech said:

She was a very young lady trying to ask a very old male about menstruation. A little awkward so she kept with familiar vernacular. 

Chill. 

Well that makes it slightly less cringe. I initially saw a 30+ y.o. bearded man in front of me when I read the quote. 

And I am very calm, thank you.

[sweetsunray]

5 minutes ago, longest night said:

I am aware of that answer. Outside of the weird fan shipping coloring like point out he's smiling, which GRRM does a lot when talking to his fans, it basically says you will have to wait and see, which he answers a lot to questions he doesn't want to answer then. It also doesn't negate the previous report at all. He's asked so much over the course of the many years, it's not as if he hasn't failed to answer a question one time and answered it another time. He's not a robot.

As for the Jon+Arya shipper, my advice to anyone is it's best not to mention the leaked outline to GRRM. If it did reveal major plot threads, he would never confirm it. He's said a number of times that the character arcs and endings for his major characters, Arya specifically mentioned here, hasn't changed from 1991. The outline is from 1993 and included like 11? chapters of A Game of Thrones with it. I would find it strange that somehow the outline from 1993 would radically differ from his original plans he's had since 1991.

Actually he claims it hasn't changed since a few years after the year you claim. He explained the entire process of writing in those first years to explain the outline in that Balticon coffeeklatch, of which I heard the 1-hour recording that was transcribed for the SSM.

And there is a huge difference between the "he has given so many answers" and your claim that George has ALWAYS maintained that they have a different future.

[longest night]

11 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Actually he claims it hasn't changed since a few years after the year you claim. He explained the entire process of writing in those first years to explain the outline in that Balticon coffeeklatch, of which I heard the 1-hour recording that was transcribed for the SSM.

And there is a huge difference between the "he has given so many answers" and your claim that George has ALWAYS maintained that they have a different future.

GRRM quote on his story from the link I already posted:

Quote

You know, not really — because I haven’t finished the story I want to tell. The story I set out to tell in 1991 is still not done. I think if I finally finish these seven books, or however many it takes, I will be tired of them. I will not necessarily be open to returning to tell more stories about the ones who survived [after the end].

Another quote from the same interview

Quote

Some major characters — yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion’s arc was gonna be through this, what Arya’s arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow’s arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing.

Another quote: (Source)

Quote

I know the ending in broad strokes, but broad strokes are just broad strokes and the devil is in the details. So as I write these last two books, I'l be moving towards the endings that I've known since 1991, but many of the fine details will be moved around and changed and things like that. 

 

What I said, and not what you claim I said:

Quote

GRRM already said Gendry and Arya have separate futures. 

 

[Gendelsdottir]

6 hours ago, longest night said:

At this point, I think D&D could do anything.

Is there a reason to believe that show & book will have the same endpoint? Will the Arya/Gendry pairing (or any other, for that matter) unfold the same way? I don't look at fan goss, apart from what I've encountered on this site, and I'm not a shipper, so I've got no dog in the fight.

[longest night]

6 minutes ago, Gendelsdottir said:

Is there a reason to believe that show & book will have the same endpoint? Will the Arya/Gendry pairing (or any other, for that matter) unfold the same way? I don't look at fan goss, apart from what I've encountered on this site, and I'm not a shipper, so I've got no dog in the fight.

Probably only the hope they won't change the end game too much for GRRM's main characters. GRRM says he gave them all the relevant information for the endings of the main characters to not be too dissimilar. Yet from his language, even he uses words like "should", so he doesn't actually know what they are planning. For all we know, they jump the most massive shark in the history of sharks and we won't know until GRRM says something or the books come out. I already have my suspicions they changed the Jon/Daenerys relationship. 

[Gendelsdottir]

5 minutes ago, longest night said:

... we won't know until GRRM says something or the books come out.

Thanks for that; I suspected as much. The extant material and associated commentary have generated a juggernaut with a life all its own. I sincerely hope GRRM continues to find joy in creating the epic tale he'd dreamed of at the start.

[Kajjo]

16 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And agreed. Their scene in E2 was a relaxed one, fellow combat comrades... Arya showing she's not really cold inside or ungrateful for what he did for her, by just sitting with him, and he admitting that he fought for her once. Any more show of affection would just be wrong between those two.

Agreed. Nicely phrased.

16 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

We sort of know how Arya feels about the Hound, because she mimicked him at the Crossroads Inn with Hot Pie

I still don't think she mimicked him intentionally. Maybe this is just what becomes of you if you are motivation is hate, if no more friends are left, if you don't really enjoy life but are on a mission of revenge. Arya is targeting Cersei, because mostly she has nothing else to do than her killing list at that moment -- before learning about Winterfell. This changes her quite instantly and drastically.

16 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

people better should not stand between her and what she wants

"The only one needs protecting is the one that get in her way" I did not so much understand as "between her and what she wants" but as "who opposes her". But anyway.

11 hours ago, Roux said:

Shes trying to understand something she thought she'd always 'have time for later' but now she thinks she might not. She just needs to know what all the fuss is about. 

This is my understanding to. Quite a straight-forward and harmless motive. 

[Kajjo]

6 hours ago, LadyOlenna said:

What I did not like was the lack of foreplay. Even if a girl doesn't want it to be romantic, she still needs at least a little time to get in the mood.

Well, I think it build all up quite well. The rushed stripping of clothes, some kisses... that's how it works for many teenagers having sex. She was aroused, she wanted it, she probably had some wet nights dreaming about it before. 

6 hours ago, LadyOlenna said:

In real life, at least in my experience, that doesn't happen. I know they couldn't make a very long scene due to time restraints, but maybe a minute more would have made a difference there.

Well, real-life is not about short scenes, that's right. But after flirting, teasing, kissing... yes, real-life sex of s fresh couple can be like that. She is tomboyish, fiercer and probably really aroused when thinking about her and Gendry. She is ready.

[Kajjo]

6 hours ago, longest night said:

They made Arya cook a Frey pie.

My goodness, don't overdo it with the Frey pie. This is a allegory of a legend of someone breaking guest rights. That's all. Get a grip, please.

[Kajjo]

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

familiar vernacular

Where on earth is the "familiar vernacular"? It sounds like medieval ages. 

"Flowering" as referring to menstruation is extremely prudish, old-fashioned and euphemistic. 

[Gendelsdottir]

7 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Where on earth is the "familiar vernacular"? It sounds like medieval ages. 

"Flowering" as referring to menstruation is extremely prudish, old-fashioned and euphemistic. 

It's GRRM's consistent usage in the novels for the onset of menstruation, which (I imagine) is why his young questioner phrased it that way.

[Kajjo]

Just now, Gendelsdottir said:

It's GRRM's consistent usage in the novels

OK, then it is book vernacular and supposed to sound medieval.

[Gendelsdottir]

2 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

OK, then it is book vernacular and supposed to sound medieval.

Yup. There's a whole Reddit thread devoted to such usages in the books.

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Where on earth is the "familiar vernacular"? It sounds like medieval ages. 

"Flowering" as referring to menstruation is extremely prudish, old-fashioned and euphemistic. 

It’s also the common term in-universe of The Song of Ice and Fire. 

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

I still don't think she mimicked him intentionally. Maybe this is just what becomes of you if you are motivation is hate, if no more friends are left, if you don't really enjoy life but are on a mission of revenge. Arya is targeting Cersei, because mostly she has nothing else to do than her killing list at that moment -- before learning about Winterfell. This changes her quite instantly and drastically.

Of course she didn't mimick him intentionally. She's subconsciously mirroring him, because she is in a different mindstate already by the time she arrives at the Crossroads Inn than when she arrives at the Twins. She may be convinced that she wants to kill Cersei, but a part of her is already taking one step away from being an assassin. Subconsciously she's in a previous stage as that of the cool detached trained assassin. What is the Hound's behaviour about? It's a mask and a shield, trying to tell yourself and the rest of the world you don't care, but actually you do far more than you let on. Meanwhile as detached assissin at the twins, she might still retain her morals on preventing innocents from dying (like not allowing Walder's wife to drink from the wife), but she has no problem whatsoever in playing an ass as Walder Frey to his latest wife either. There is a degree of difference in having issues at what price she becomes violent between the two states.

No matter how emotional or empathic a person is, this is not the same in any given situation 24/7. Some experiences make you harder and harsher and colder. You still have that ability to care, that doesn't change, but even within the same person there can be a variation on how much you allow yourself to care. And all I'm saying is that when we see Arya behave more like the Hound for a while, this betrays that subconsciously she is more willing to care again than when she left the Twins. She's only holding people at a distance to protect herself. At some point, she sheds the mirroring of the Hound's behaviour, and behaves more as when she was with the Brotherhood or like her mother Catelyn, suspicious of betrayal, except she has far better skills to figure stuff out. And with each such step, she seeks out human contact more , smiles easier.

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

"The only one needs protecting is the one that get in her way" I did not so much understand as "between her and what she wants" but as "who opposes her". But anyway.

Well, what Brienne doesn't know but the Hound does to some extent is that actually Gendry's been the sole person who can get in her way without retaliation. She intends to kill the Hound herself when Beric says to let him go during the Hound's trial with the Brotherhood. Gendry chases after her, grabs her and prevents her from doing harm. He also physically holds her back from charging out against the Mountain, when Yoren is captured (but then he's the first to charge himself when Yoren is killed). And he can do all this without her holding instant grudges or her being angry with him, or even lashing out at him for it. He's the sole person she really trusts in this way if he opposes her or gets between her and her target. It's no coincidence that he faced her directly when he told her that this enemy is like "death". If the Hound did that, she'd lash out. If Brienne did that, she'd scoff. When Gendry does it, she reasons with him and eases his concern by proving she's skilled. 

Anyway, Brienne said that line to the Hound and the Hound gave his answer, and I knew then that he'd never come between her and Gendry, and if this was meant to be about her wish to see Cersei die, I knew Gendry in somehow would prevent her from doing so and she'll let him. And we physically had the Hound standing between them in epi1, and he makes himself scarce rather quickly. Now we had a visual of Arya's insomnia, the first night she doesn't recite a list of names in years, as she has just slept with Gendry. He already got in the way from her desire to kill Cersei or the Mountain, just by being intimate with her. 

[Kajjo]

35 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

What is the Hound's behaviour about? It's a mask and a shield, trying to tell yourself and the rest of the world you don't care, but actually you do far more than you let on.

Agreed.

36 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Some experiences make you harder and harsher and colder. You still have that ability to care, that doesn't change, but even within the same person there can be a variation on how much you allow yourself to care. And all I'm saying is that when we see Arya behave more like the Hound for a while,

Agreed.

37 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Gendry chases after her, grabs her and prevents her from doing harm.

37 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

And he can do all this without her holding instant grudges or her being angry with him, or even lashing out at him for it. He's the sole person she really trusts in this way if he opposes her or gets between her and her target.

Well observed. Yes.

[a black swan]

The chances of Arya getting pregnant after what happened with her and Gendry? She doesn't seem to be planning on surviving beyond the battle the next day. Would she have taken precautions with Moon Tea? It only took one time with her mom and her first child as well. Same with Lyanna...

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, a black swan said:

The chances of Arya getting pregnant after what happened with her and Gendry? She doesn't seem to be planning on surviving beyond the battle the next day. Would she have taken precautions with Moon Tea? It only took one time with her mom and her first child as well. Same with Lyanna...

Well with a line such as "it's strong enough" what do you think?