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11 hours ago, nborders said:

My guess is that she tries to burn him for treason, and he doesn’t burn. 

Change this to, my guess is she tries to burn him for treason and the dragons won't do it.... and it works 

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Posted (edited)
Daenerys has huge doubts that Jon is who he says he is and I really feel like they dropped the ball not having Howland Reed, he's the only living person who was at the Tower of Joy. Bran has "powers" that none of these people evn understand or can comprehend and Sam could easily be written off as "Dany killed my family so I wanna stop her from taking the throne so I'll just start a rumor that Jon is a Targ also." The annulment at the Citadel does not mention Jon as Sam didn't even realize what he had just stumbled upon.

Plus him being Jon's best friend and Bran being Jon's "brother" also sows some doubt there on its validity. Plus Jon is NOT immune to fire like Dany he burnt his hand in S1 throwing a lantern at a wight saving Jeor Mormont. So having Jon get hit with Dragon fire and not being burnt would just be completely inconsistent. Plus like others said D&D forgot to tell Dany only Targs can ride dragons XD
 
Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Nihiloth90 said:

The only way they can actually prove he is a Targaryen is by trying to burn him. Is this correct?

1) Fire-immunity is not a general ability that Targaryens possess. Some can withstand heat better than others, but some are no more heat resistant than your average peasant. Daenerys being able to stand in a roaring pyre (and then a burning house) are exceptions, not the norm.

2) Jon was badly burned by a lantern in season 1 when he saved Jeor Mormont from a wight. 
If Jon suddenly is immune to fire, that would be immensely bad storytelling, as nothing we've seen so far indicates that he would somehow be immune to fire all of a sudden. Yes, he died and was resurrected, allegedly by a "fire god", but nothing in the show has even hinted at this new immunity post resurrection. 

As for giving her proof: In her mind, the septons diary can be forged and Bran&Sam might lie.
She did however, see Jon mount and fly away on Rhaegal with her own eyes. That's the biggest give-away. Deep down, Daenerys probably believes him, she just needs to overcome the shock and wrap her head around it. Jon was shocked too, it's the natural reaction when your world-view shatters.

Edited by MinscS2

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Posted (edited)

I think Danys initial reaction of denial or questioning is totally valid, Jon had the same reaction. It is only his brother (brother as he was known before true parentage) and best friend and given how Dany has seen the northmen’s reaction to her it doesn’t seem out of the question that they could create a story to give him claim over her to the throne. Also there is no proof , the septon’s diary only states there was a marriage no mention of a baby at all so at the moment it’s really just Bran’s word and he hasn’t really described to Dany (or anyone else really) what his powers are and what 3ER means. I’d question it too.... if only poor Howland Reed hasn’t been forgotten 

Edited by nymeria_2321

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Posted (edited)

Dany only survived fire because of blood magic. It has nothing to do with being a Targ.

Plus in the books GRRM constantly reminds us that Jon’s arm was burned.

Edited by NonoNono

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, NonoNono said:

Dany only survived fire because of blood magic.

In the books yes. In the show she burnt the Khals in S6 and walked out of the fire again where blood magic was not used.

Do I like that they did that? No, but what's done is done I suppose....

Edited by Adam_Up_Bxtch

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Okay I see this argument quite often, that since everyone saw Jon ride Rhaegal they shouldn't be surprised that he is a Targaryen since only Targaryen's can ride dragons.  But when in the show do we see that the characters know about this connection?

The only way I could see Dany knowing this (if she knows it at all) would be from tales Viserys told her.  But she probably realizes by now that Viserys was not the most trustworthy source of information, especially when it comes to their family.

Basically it seems like the information that only Targaryen's can ride dragons is information that the audience knows (if you watch behind the scenes footage and other director commentary) but that the characters themselves aren't privy to that knowledge.

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Jon's mother is unknown. Easy enough to assume that she might well have had Targ blood back there somewhere, so dragon riding helps, but isn't conclusive in itself, especially if she doubts Bran and Sam's records.

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4 hours ago, nymeria_2321 said:

I think Danys initial reaction of denial or questioning is totally valid, Jon had the same reaction.

Of course it is. Everything else would be unbelievable. Bran's visions and Samwell's reports are not really convincing to her. 

Jon riding a dragon should have rung the alarm in E1. It was bad storytelling to do the dragon ride before the parentage revelation.

5 hours ago, Nihiloth90 said:

The only way they can actually prove he is a Targaryen is by trying to burn him. Is this correct?

No, that is entirely wrong. Daenerys is an exception. Not all Targaryens are fire-proof. 

We have seen that Jon was burned by a lantern early in the series, so is is certainly not fire-proof.

With Daenerys special ability they carefully introduced it with the hot bath tub in one of her first scenes, then lifting the hot stone eggs. With Jon they have shown us nothing with regards to that. Jon is not resistent to fire.

4 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

Okay I see this argument quite often, that since everyone saw Jon ride Rhaegal they shouldn't be surprised that he is a Targaryen since only Targaryen's can ride dragons.  But when in the show do we see that the characters know about this connection?

Well, she is a Targaryen and her brother told her many stories. She speaks natively Valyrian and probably has read all the stories, too. 

2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Jon's mother is unknown. Easy enough to assume that she might well have had Targ blood back there somewhere

Have you even seen the show at all?! 

Jon's mother is Lyanna Stark. His father is Rhaegar Targaryan, the son of the mad king Aerys Targaryan.

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20 hours ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

Didnt Jon burn his hand in season 1?

He also had a brother named Aegon in season 1.

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Am I the only one who feels Dannys denial is warented? Like in her eyes here comes Jon Snow Ned Starks bastard son who rallied the North and became KITN. All of a sudden he suduces Danny and claims hes Rhegars true born son and TRUE heir to the Iron Throne...... Proof you ask? Well my all seein cousin Bran seen it through the weirwood trees and my best friend Sam Tarly you know the guy who you killed his father and brother also apparently read it in a journal at the citadel? 

I mean if i was Danny id be a lil suspicuous to, Jon riding a dragon is proof perhaps he has dragon blood OR the dragons can sense who is trust worthy and who is not or who intends them or Danny harm and who doesn't. Danny has no way to equate dragon riding with Targ blood. In the novels nettles road a Dragon and she was a commoner with no Targ blood at all. 

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Just now, Kajjo said:
2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Jon's mother is unknown. Easy enough to assume that she might well have had Targ blood back there somewhere

Have you even seen the show at all?! 

Jon's mother is Lyanna Stark. His father is Rhaegar Targaryan, the son of the mad king Aerys Targaryan.

The topic is about Dany being in denial.

She doubts Bran and Sam's records. If Dany denies RLJ or for anyone who doesn't know RLJ, Jon's being able to ride a dragon can still be explained by his mystery mother having Targ blood. 

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Just now, Lollygag said:

Jon's being able to ride a dragon can still be explained by his mystery mother having Targ blood. 

I see now how you meant it. I don't expect that this will play a role, though.

First the battle, then we will see. Daenerys will have to be convinced somehow. I still bet on the dragon.

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3 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm fine with Dany never accepting it. Why does she need to? 

Right, she doesn't.

She shouldn't talk about being queen before actually being queen, though. First conquer the Iron throne, then call herself queen. Till now she is just an invader without any success story.

Daenerys will not end up on the Iron Throne, I guess.

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I feel like Ned has it somewhere who Jon really is. Just hope they don't burn down Winterfell in the meantime.( Hey wait.. We already did burn down Winterfell...so how does Baelish pull that scroll out of the depths. ) but I do think that at WF or the citadel or place of marriage or KL or place of Jons birth there's a confirmation. 

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Posted (edited)

Did Jon ride a dragon?

Dragons can carry anyone remember? Carrying someone and letting someone to ride (controlling the Dragons actions) are entirely different things.

As far as I see Rhaegal only carried Jon, Jon wasn't controlling Rhaegal's actions.

I asked this question too, since Dany can't be that blind if Jon was able to ''ride'' a Dragon, but Rhaegal was just carrying him.

Edited by Erkan12

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She will try to escape the battle of Winterfell, but the second dragon will refuse to leave... I am not sure that she will fight Jon's war anymore.

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Also I think Dany wants to believe that big brother was a good guy. Even though he turned on elia it's still better than the Stark Story of lyannas kidnapping. 

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