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Trebla

Jenny of Oldstones by Florence + the Machine

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Really haunting and beautiful and quite a bit of last night's episode is in the video.  As I recall, HBO used their "Seven Devils" song for GoT's the season 2 trailer so it's fitting they were able to adapt the song. I think the show has done a pretty good job adapting ASoIaF's songs., even "The Bear and the Maiden Fair". I know some people were turned off on it being a modern song AND how it was used in the show but I really enjoyed it. It's a good tavern drinking song. :P I checked and Jenny of Oldstones is already on iTunes. I think I'm going to be listening to it all day. 

 

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I recall reading an article where GRRM said he had intended to put all the lyrics to Jenny's song in his books, but found he wasn't happy with anything he wrote, it wasn't haunting enough.  Which initially gave me a knee jerk of "Oh no, Dan and Dave, you aren't trying to do something that even GRRM was unhappy with."

But I thought the lyrics and tune was done with aplomb.  It was haunting and evocative. It was the perfect way for it to go out.

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The song is well sung and played, but there is little and less of Jenny of Oldstones in the song. Can anybody help me understand who the ghosts are supposed to be that Jenny lost long ago? What we know at this point is that all people Jenny lost (and possibly she herself) died at Summerhall.

As for unintentional humor, I cannot help but rejoice at the fact that it is over soon. Just like Jenny (and Catelyn, for that matter) had likely no issue with 'leaving' when it the time came to say their final farewells ;-).

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The song is well sung and played, but there is little and less of Jenny of Oldstones in the song. Can anybody help me understand who the ghosts are supposed to be that Jenny lost long ago? What we know at this point is that all people Jenny lost (and possibly she herself) died at Summerhall.

As for unintentional humor, I cannot help but rejoice at the fact that it is over soon. Just like Jenny (and Catelyn, for that matter) had likely no issue with 'leaving' when it the time came to say their final farewells ;-).

My guess is Duncan, Aegon V, and possibly Ser Duncan of the Kingsguard.

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3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The song is well sung and played, but there is little and less of Jenny of Oldstones in the song. Can anybody help me understand who the ghosts are supposed to be that Jenny lost long ago? What we know at this point is that all people Jenny lost (and possibly she herself) died at Summerhall.

To me it's a combination of people she knew and lost and old dead kings and heroes from long ago.  It says she danced with "the ones she had lost and the ones she had found and the ones who had loved her the most". The next verse says "The ones who had been gone for so very long, she couldn't remember their names" which to me alludes to House Mudd who tried to fight off the Andal invasion but finally fell and their kingdom was destroyed.

As far as Summerhall, isn't there some belief that the author of the song is Rhaegar and it's the song he sang at Harrenhal that Lyanna cried listening to? If Rhaegar did indeed write it, the song could indeed be about Summerhall without actually acknowledging it. Just as Jenny would visit with ghosts at the ruins of Oldstone, Rhaegar would do the same at Summerhall.

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The song might really use Jenny, the dreaming commoner's daughter, the dancing girl with the flowers in her hair as a sort of metaphor. For youth maybe, or innocence or life.
Maybe it's even her ghost who in the song dances at Summerhall.

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Posted (edited)

I became a "Florence and the Machine" fan since season 2 when they sang the "Seven Devils" song in the trailer.

I was so pleased that we saw them again in GoT! 

And yes I agree the song of Jenny is very nice and hunting as it should be although I would like to know why they specifically chose this song.

Is it because the episodes name was "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" which refers to Brienne becoming a knight which in turn that's somewhat symbolic since Dunk is probably one of her ancestors and his story is called  "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" as well. And seeing how we are gonna probably meet Jenny if the Dunk and Egg novellas are finished (I hope so) and since they will probably make a prequel about them at some point...maybe that's the reason they choose it?

I don't know if it means something else I have heard people saying that the song was chosen as to foreshadow Jon abandoning his rights for the throne for Dany but I'm not so sure....

Anyway yes, it was very nice indeed.^_^

Edited by The Exiled Septa

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They gave Sansa Jenny of Oldstones costuming on the show back in S1 (x). GRRM must have had a hand in informing Clapton (costume designer) to connect Sansa to this song.

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@Trebla

Rhaegar didn't write it, FWIW, since Catelyn knew the song from her childhood. At least, that's the case in the books. 

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

They gave Sansa Jenny of Oldstones costuming on the show back in S1 (x). GRRM must have had a hand in informing Clapton (costume designer) to connect Sansa to this song.

I remember that, they used Dragonfly jewellery for most of the  show really. As late as her and Theon escaping Winterfell in Season 5 when her Stark grey-white dress was still clasped by those dragonfly brooches.

Obviously something that won't pan out on the show, since the song didn't seem connected to her and there isn't really enough time left.

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4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Can anybody help me understand who the ghosts are supposed to be that Jenny lost long ago?

One interpretation - she's dancing at Oldstones, I think she is a Mudd and that's the "kings who are gone."

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9 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

My guess is Duncan, Aegon V, and possibly Ser Duncan of the Kingsguard.

Sure, but she sings about old and more recent ghosts. That doesn't seem to make sense in context of what we know of the story. Jenny only lost people at Summerhall not long before that.

Also, the fact that she may have grown mad afterwards if she herself didn't die there implies that she didn't just lose her husband and parents-in-law (Betha may have died there, too) there but also hypothetical children we have yet to learn may have existed.

Sure, the loss of a husband is hard, but that's life. And Aegon V and Betha and Dunk were all old, too. Their deaths would have been expected.

24 minutes ago, Trebla said:

To me it's a combination of people she knew and lost and old dead kings and heroes from long ago.  It says she danced with "the ones she had lost and the ones she had found and the ones who had loved her the most". The next verse says "The ones who had been gone for so very long, she couldn't remember their names" which to me alludes to House Mudd who tried to fight off the Andal invasion but finally fell and their kingdom was destroyed.

There are allusions to the Mudds and Oldstones (old stones) in the song as given, certainly. But I'm not sure that's the focus of the song as envisioned by George. That one would have been telling her story - her rise from obscurity to win the heart and love of a prince until her sad end.

24 minutes ago, Trebla said:

As far as Summerhall, isn't there some belief that the author of the song is Rhaegar and it's the song he sang at Harrenhal that Lyanna cried listening to? If Rhaegar did indeed write it, the song could indeed be about Summerhall without actually acknowledging it. Just as Jenny would visit with ghosts at the ruins of Oldstone, Rhaegar would do the same at Summerhall.

It makes sense to assume that Rhaegar would have sung that song at Harrenhal, certainly. Rhaegar and Lyanna are a variation of Duncan and Jenny who, in turn, are more than just a nod to the George greatest doomed love story back Dying of the Light and other stories from that period when he dealt in his writing with a lot of his own love life.

I doubt that Jenny and Duncan are very important for ASoIaF in general, but Rhaegar and Lyanna as a variation of them are. And it is a rather interesting question whether the issue of 'his Jenny' from DotL is mirrored in any way in Duncan and Jenny (with the latter also being called 'his Jenny') and what one can, perhaps, draw from that for the nature of the Rhaegar-Lyanna relationship. It shouldn't be much of stretch to assume that their romance was at least as problematic a conundrum as we get in DotL...

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1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

Obviously something that won't pan out on the show, since the song didn't seem connected to her and there isn't really enough time left.

I still think there's time left for a certain prince to decline the Targaryen crown and choose a girl with ties to the Riverlands, setting off a "storm."

The Dance of Dragons, Jenny of Oldstones, and Florian the Fool are key songs playing in Sansa's storyline. Just think about how all of those relate to knights, Targaryen princes, and dragons. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I still think there's time left for a certain prince to decline the Targaryen crown and choose a girl with ties to the Riverlands, setting off a "storm."

The Dance of Dragons, Jenny of Oldstones, and Florian the Fool are key songs playing in Sansa's storyline. Just think about how all of those relate to knights, Targaryen princes, and dragons. 

I agree with you that in the books there might be certain Targaryen prince who might end up going down that road. But I don't think Jon will choose Sansa, if that's what you are saying.

It would not be the first time when the story the costumes try to tell didn't pan out for various reasons; Clapton also dressed the Tyrells in turquoise in order to give a visual clue that they were hiding their true ambitions and wanted them to switch to green after Tywinn's death to show their "true colours"....that didn't work out either, possibly due to how rushed that storyline became in the end. 

Edited by Orphalesion

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Just now, Orphalesion said:

I agree with you that in the books there might be certain Targaryen prince who might end up going down that road. But I don't think Jon will choose Sansa, if that's what you are saying.

Yes, but I'm not sure if its romantic or simply political. Jenny and Lyanna were caught in a triangle. I'm getting Dany/Sansa/Jon alarm bells like crazy in the last episode. Both Dany and Sansa's tension is around Jon and an independent North. Sansa will want Jon to help her fight for that after the war. There is a choosing sides element to this with an aggrieved third party just waiting to happen. 

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Yes, but I'm not sure if its romantic or simply political. Jenny and Lyanna were caught in a triangle. I'm getting Dany/Sansa/Jon alarm bells like crazy in the last episode. Both Dany and Sansa's tension is around Jon and an independent North. Sansa will want Jon to help her fight for that after the war. There is a choosing sides element to this with an aggrieved third party just waiting to happen. 

Interesting! I really didn't see it that way. But in that case, Daenerys might well end up being the "Jenny" for whom Jon forsakes his (Northern) crown with Sansa being the aggrieved party. 

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