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John Suburbs

So, if Jaime can be forgiven . . .?

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What about Melisandre?

Was Carice van Houten on set during filming at all? Last I recall, she was at Dragonstone. Might she arrive in the north at a some point and be able to summon up some fire magic against the wights? And would Jon be OK with that?

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15 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Last I recall, she was at Dragonstone.

She was departing towards Volantis. She promised to return to Westeros. 

I expect her to arrive after the battle.

We don't know much yet and can only speculate. Maybe she is Nissa-Nissa and her burning, dying heart will create Lightbringer? I like this theory.

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13 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

She was departing towards Volantis. She promised to return to Westeros. 

I expect her to arrive after the battle.

We don't know much yet and can only speculate. Maybe she is Nissa-Nissa and her burning, dying heart will create Lightbringer? I like this theory.

Someone would have to love her first. Kind of hard to see that happening. 

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1 minute ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Someone would have to love her first. Kind of hard to see that happening.

True, very difficult to imagine. Only if she were very old and someone lese loved her or whatever. Or maybe just a burning heart will do. 

History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes. Didn't GRRM quote that?

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Sansa was the only one to really "forgive" Jaime and only because it's more of trusting Brienne than forgiving Jaime. Dany took her cue from Jon who is only concerned about the NK and the looming war. If Melisandre showed up now he'd most likely put her in armor to help them fight. Jaime is an extra sword to them and nothing more. He knows it too since he asked Bran what happens after. 

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Not sure if she can. If she arrives after the battle, then Jon's argument that "we need every man" may no longer apply, so that avenue is out. And Jaime had Brienne to vouch for him. Jon didn't seem all that grateful to her in the end, and Davos, who was glad to have Jon back, still hates her, so there isn't really anyone who may take her side.

That being said, it might not be a matter of justice in her case. Jon & Davos banished her, Gendry, and by implication Arya, may want her dead, too, but other characters may not really care about her that much. Melisandre may find protection with Dany, since the red priests have been openly supportive of Dany. But that's in case battle lines are drawn between Jon and Dany.

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2 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

Sansa was the only one to really "forgive" Jaime

I don't even sense any emotional "forgiving" with Sansa. Sansa just trusts Brienne and somehow pardons Jamie for the time being.

3 minutes ago, DanyDayne said:

He knows it too since he asked Bran what happens after. 

Exactly. Jamie is "a sword", but real forgiving looks different.

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Melisandre said that she has to die in Westeros, as does Varys (why does he always have his hands hidden in his clothes?). I don't think she stands any chance of being forgiven by Davos, but he may not live through the coming battle anyway. Jon only banished her from the North, so could be she shows up elsewhere after the battle. She did also say her work was done or something to that effect. If they do bring her back, I hope it is something relevant to the plot and not just to see her die. I feel like it will be, or else what was the point in telling us she'd be back?

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She did say she would be back to Westeros to die, just like Varys. Maybe her and Bronn ride in on horseback as the battle starts! Just kidding.

Mel did tell Arya that the two of them would meet again...

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5 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

why does he always have his hands hidden in his clothes

He tries to convey a monk-like posture, non-threatening, even in combat he is more taken as woman, as non-combatant. This is his way of surviving.

However, we see his hands sometimes. Nothing special about them.

5 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I don't think she stands any chance of being forgiven by Davos

Certainly not.

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Mel did tell Arya that the two of them would meet again...

Yes, Melisandre made to prophecies: Returning to Westeros to die, as well as Varys. And seeing Arya again. 

 

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43 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

 

Yes, Melisandre made to prophecies: Returning to Westeros to die, as well as Varys. And seeing Arya again. 

 

 She's only right about 50% of the time though. And she misses a lot a lot. 

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1 hour ago, Roux said:

 She's only right about 50% of the time though. And she misses a lot a lot. 

Melisandre was wrong even more often. She is not good in prophecies.

She is able of this blood magic, though, from shadow-birth over leeched Gendry to burning Shireen.

We will see how true her words are this time. Somehow, I believe she will return and die. And Varys, too.

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1 minute ago, Charlie Hustle said:

Jon better accept her back. Isnt she the reason why he's alive now?

She resurrected him, but he banned her after that.

He let her live and just banned her because she resurrected him. Otherwise she would have been killed.

There might be some importance to Melisandre, but without knowing this I wouldn't take her back. She's a bad witch. 

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Well, I think Mels and Jaime's situation aren't comparable.

Jaime's crimes against house Tully, Stark an so on during the war of the five kings, don't matter, because it was war. Jaime's attack on Ned in Kingslanding can be explained with the abduction of Tyrion by Catelyn.

And to Daenery's accusation of regicit: Well, the Mad King tried to destroy Kingslanding with wild fire, which would result in hundreds of thousands dead people. Of course there are no hard proofs for the Mad King's intent, but its plausible giving the state of mind of the Mad King and the fact, that there were stores of wild fire spread out in the whole city.

The only big crime against Jaime would be the attempted murder of Bran, but Bran cept that to himself.

 

Melisandre on the other side had burned a child to please her god.

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11 hours ago, Kajjo said:

He tries to convey a monk-like posture, non-threatening, even in combat he is more taken as woman, as non-combatant. This is his way of surviving.

However, we see his hands sometimes. Nothing special about them.

Certainly not.

Yes, Melisandre made to prophecies: Returning to Westeros to die, as well as Varys. And seeing Arya again. 

 

A monk is just what he reminds me of. Now I'm embarrassed that I didn't see the non-threatening meaning of his posture.

Totally forgot about Mel telling Arya they'd meet again. And I just read that on here the other day! Between GoT and AWoT discussions, I think my brain is on overload.

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8 hours ago, Charlie Hustle said:

Jon better accept her back. Isnt she the reason why he's alive now?

He wasn't totally thrilled about it at the time though. Remember, prior to the BotB, he told her not to bring him back again if he died.

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On 4/22/2019 at 6:05 PM, John Suburbs said:

What about Melisandre?

Was Carice van Houten on set during filming at all? Last I recall, she was at Dragonstone. Might she arrive in the north at a some point and be able to summon up some fire magic against the wights? And would Jon be OK with that?

Depends on the time frame. If she returns during the battle with allies and help apparently they are not going to stop the war to judge her but accept any help they can get. Let’s not forget that Dany accepted her. So she may have a chance there to redeem herself for John and Davos. 

By the way Jamie’s stance was provocative. He didn’t want forgiveness as he didn’t regret anything that’s what he said.

Tossing a little boy from a tower and trying to kill it was defending his family? And he had the nerve to say this “excuse” with Bran standing there or he thought that Bran didn’t remember? But he did...

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If she does come back, and I'm not sure what earthly purpose it'd serve with three episodes left (after the Winterfell battle), I can't see her being redeemed. I mean to say, Jaime's redemption (such as it is) took seasons, not to mention losing the sword hand by which he'd previously defined himself. So if she does return, I'm imagining she'll be there just to give some exposition on R'llhor before being cut down.

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8 hours ago, Haskelltier said:

Melisandre on the other side had burned a child to please her god.

I'm pretty sure she convinced Stannis and his wife to sacrifice her to break the weather, not to please her god. Don't forget, she didn't make the decision, mom and dear old dad ultimately made that choice.

Oh and BTW, the weather did break.

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